How much power would a 406TPI set up make if you was low bucking it?? and how cheao would it be low bucked??

If performance is liked i'll tweak it later spend some $$$ on it later just idea's guy's I might keep Playing with the L-98 for a while but i Would love to swap iy for a 400sbc just for the nestalga of the T/A with a 6.6l ya know...

 

depends on alot when you're looking for deals...

if you dont already have a TPI setup, id get just the harness, ECM, distrib, and throttle/TV cables from a donor car.... then snag a LT1 intake/throttlebody/fuel rail combo and use that......

but assuming you have TPI, since you said L98, all you need is the basic LT1 intake (94+, the 93 wont work)... should be a cheap junkyard score...

other then that, its just like making any other 400 SBC....


if you want to go full roller, you can low buck it and get some used roller lifters for $100ish, and a used roller cam for $50-100... up that $200 if you want to run your own cam... add another $200 if you want new lifters...


i donno exactly what you're looking for.... but total engine cost is around 1k if you totally low buck it and you're starting out with nothing..... no TPI stuff at all, no 400..

 

$500 for the old 400 i built and sold, bought back from the person i got it from

-70 sold intake
-200 sold carb
-50 sold distrib
-100 sold heads

$40 in metal for my intake (about)
$70 used injectors
$1 injector O rings (i know where to get em)
$5 in ECM connectors, injector wiring, ect from junkyard... free if you're immoral enough to pocket it.
$10 GM ECM (yard sells EVERY GM ECM at this price.... )
$500 for Dart Iron Eagles, cam, pushrods, roller rockers
- sold cam pushrods
$100 solid roller lifters, pushrods
$200ish in misc other things...... gaskets, engine paint bolts, ect..



course that doesnt count the supercharger, but if i had just used a TPI intake, or LT1 one, or made one that didnt hold a supercharger, the price wouldnt change much..... :lala:

 

I got the TPI thats a give me......

I can get 400's cheap........

Just wanted to know if there was any high dollar part's invilved oothere then the 400 buildi up......


The 406TBI is coming out so well in the 91 GTA i was thinking of building a 406YPI for the 87 GTA ..........

 

I was thinking abouy spending like $4,000 on it over time building a bit here and bit there and when it was done take the L-98 for one last bonzi run and swap them out.....

 

RAMAIR2, I'D JUST STICK TO A CARB, IF I WERE YOU. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND HOW SENSITIVE FUEL INJECTION IS TO VARIOUS MODIFICATIONS, AND ESPECIALLY TUNE, AS PER YOUR OTHER POSTS...

ALSO, WHERE DO YOU RACE? UNION GROVE?

I LOVE NA 9 SECOND RIDES, AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOUR AMX IN ACTION, THATS PRETTY DAMN GOOD FOR AN OLD 390.

 

other then the balancer, flywheel/flexplate, and the steam holes, theres no real diff between it and any other SBC...... lil things (like a 168tooth flexplate may mean a diff starter) may come up, but overall, its no diffrent then any other SBC build.

the question is what do you want and how much money do you have?....

you could spend 1k or 20k... with a 4k budget, you could build a mean lil 400.... spent wisely and with a lil effort on your part, it should shove it into the low 12s high 11s quite easily.... (assuming you already have the driveline for that)

 

I was thinking $4,000 for engine $3,000 for tranny,and $2000 of bs odd;s and end's and spread over say a 2 year build.....
it should be ready to go......

I was going to build the whole drive line long before outting it in the 87 GTA.........

But i might jusy stick with the L-98 I have no idea..........

 

Gixxer the "old 390" is one of them EFI car's and the 406TBI is also coming out fine.........

my EFI know how seems to be plenty Fine......

it's the TPI's i need help with so i am asking?? isn't what this messag board for????????

 

IF YOU'RE ON A BUDGET, I WOULD BUY AN LT1 INTAKE(MODIFIED) OR A STEALTHRAM AND NOT SPEND THE MONEY IT WOULD TAKE TO CREATE A SUFFICIENTLY WELL FLOWING LTR SETUP. TRUST ME HERE, YOU'LL BE HAPPIER IN THE LONG RUN.

 

No such thing with TPI and with those cubic inches. Everything needs to be bigger. I just finished putting a SDPC custom built motor w/their TPI intake base and the FastBurn aluminum heads and bought everything new and the $$$ went to the clouds, of course all my induction stuff came from TPIS, but it adds up and it sure is tuff replacing alot of the inductiion stuff at a later date..........

 

WHAT YOU MEAN WITH THEM CUNBIC INCHES????

I have seen a few 406tpi's before.
In fact I think there is a guy on here with a 406TPI setup.

I could be wrong .....

 

my uncle has a nissan Z car with a TPI 400 sbc backed with a T56.. cool car.

runs great.


however, the motor is nowhere near its potential.... good for him since it would blow the car apart if it was, but bad if you want a fast car (and im assuming you want SOME power if you're building a 4k 400sbc)


just because people do it (even alot of people) doesnt mean its a great idea or the best way to do things...

go look at a 70s muscle car with the rear end jacked up to the sky.... back then, everyone did that too...:lala:



when it comes down to it, the TUNED part of TPI is moot on a performance 400... what you need is to be able to shove(suck) large amounts of air down there with the least restriction.


if you want more info on the subject, its been talked about since day one on this board, so a search will yeild more results then you're probly wanting to read..... 98% of them say the same thing... the other 2% either changed their mind, or still have slow cars.

 

I have a 406 modified tpi set-up. I am switching over to HSR...

 

I reccomend you figure out your problem with your l98 first, because chances are its an electronic problem which means you will have the same problem with the 406. Just my opinion, you don't have to follow it.
JP

 

DO a SEARCH????

Here's an idea I asked you for the info you do the search then if this has been talked about so many times copy/past or just past the link??? or you Just to Lazy???







87350IROC:

Now Dude if iy is in the electronic system it won't matter cause the 400 will have all new stuff ......

New TPI,injector's,wiring harness,ECM,ect.....

The chance's of it being an eletronic problem with the L-98 is xetremly remote...........


Well My Bad it hasn't had a tunup sence 1989 so yeah I guess your right "electronic" issues there......

But I doubt the Tune up is going to take it from the 16.11's to the 15.20's That GM say's it should be running........

But some er's Like yo claim that they run 14.40's with well over 110,000miles stock with no Mod's Not even a tire up grade or exhaust up grade suposedly "every thing is GM factory off the show room floor stock" But as fare as I can see.....

I'mma thinking the tune up and the 3.73 gear's is all that L-98 need's then Drive it till it drop's oit will be in town now so the 3.73's won't hurt it any..................

 

And blah blah 3,73's will cut your top end off car can't breath ay high rpm........

Well i bet it will maintian 45mph just fine with 3.73 gear's...

The xetra 250-500rpm won't bother it any...

cruzing Donw the strip at 1750Rpm I don't think will bother the
L-98 any,The l-98 dose start to fade til 4,500rpm so if you shift at 4750rpm it will do fine .

 

How can you make such a generalized statement? My 89 Formula 350 will run consistant 14.4s all day, last time it was at the track was with 145,000 miles on everything(148k currently)!!! The ONLY change from factory is sub frame connectors. It has run as fast as 14.25@95

 

Because i have I hard time beliveing (in the real world of realality)
that an eninge that high on miles would run that fast unless it was in the 13's new..........

Cause my 1987 GTA with :

L-98 350tpi,700r4,3.23 gear's,and 235/55r16 cooper cobra's and 120,200 at the time.......

best of 2 run's was 16.11@88.9mph........

Maybe cause i only ran it twice.........

i pounched from dead stop no wheel hop no tires spin.....

maybe i should of break torqued it a bit and launched it at higher rpm then idle But I doubt that would have made that big of a difference......

But it dose need a tune up,it has needed one sence 89 But nobody ever did it.....

So for the L-98's running 14.40's and Faster with 170,000+miles
i call bs cause it ain't stock.....Just the law of friction....

 

Unless my L-98 is just plain junk witch i could believe as I hate 350's anyway what's one more reason...............

but it run's like new don't leak anything so i would assume it's mildly healthy sept the oil psi suck's.......

Idles hot@17psi with 20w-50 oil and 2qt filter......
so that right there tell's me it's tired.....

But with the times it ran and the oil Pressure with fresh 20w-50 the lack of Tune up it might be just this engine.....

I hate it when people beat them and don't maintain them.....

 

No matter how you want to deal with it, be it realizing it is possible..or even realizing its probably just your car, doesnt matter to me. GTAs are heavy, and you gave a ton of reasons why your car isnt up to par.

Others keep their car in tip-top shape, keep up the whole car, not just change the oil. I have every record for my car since the day it came off the showroom, and it runs 14.4s all day long. :lala:

 

People jump my *** like i was the one beating it into the ground and not maintaining it is what pisses me off cause it ain't true.....

I do better then routine maintaince....

thats what i dislike.....

I run AMSOIL 20w-50 oil 2Qt filter's:

They Recomend chage filter every 3,000 niles and oil every 6,000miles.

I do:
Filter every 2,000miles and oil evert 4,000miles.
better then routine.

GM say tune up every 2 year's.......

I DO:

every year to every 6 month's..

Tranny fluid .
Recomended every 12,000miles.

I do:
every 6,000 miles.

diff grease.
recomended once a year.(nobody realy bother's mostly)

I do it every 12,000miles or twice a year.

Grease job.
rec: every oil change.

I do:
every 2,000miles with filter change....
so you can't tell me i don't keep my stuff up.

I Didn't go thew this like a normally would cause i didn't really drive it.


But i think A tune up isn't going to wake it up no 1.5 second's...

 

something just isnt right with your car then, im not gonna argue about it...lol

heres one for ya...

 

I KNOW IT'S WOREN OUT AND JUNK.......

Thats why iwas ashing about the 406 Idea there guy......

I don't want to argue about it either......

Your the one that brought up redoing the L-98 not me...:hail:

 

Actually I didnt bring it up , after you said that is where I started posting. I was just defending what you said about 14.4s not being possible and all of us being BSers...

Look in my sig, Im doing a 400 also Cant wait to get some more progress....

Here is a good 400 build you might like to see

 

my bad guy wrong dude sorry...

 

Well good luck guy...........

I hope you 406 comes out as awsome as my 406TBI......

my 406tbi:


CAR:
1991 GTA Ramair2.

ENGINE:
400Sbc

SPECS:
400Sbc .030over bore, 10.5:1,292dur.575lift,Dart head’s, ported & polished, 2-670cfm TB's Holley TBI setup.

DYNO:
540hp@6,500rpm.
620ftlbTorque@5,000rpm.

POWER AT FLY WHEEL.

TRANSMISSION:
700r4,B&M valve body, B&M filter shift improver.
HD Trans cooler.

REAR END:
9in Moser rear end.
GEAR:
3.73 Gears
TIRES:
235/60R15's in front.
295/50R16's in rear.

 

When you plan on getting some times with that?

 

I was hoping by summer 04 But it might be summer 05 I didn't plan on JSM/M&R taking this long to get started so i got delayed for 6 month's......so that delayed my build but i'm back working.....
should be done by summer 05 for sure..

But hoping to squeez it out by summer 04 but i'm not going to rush and cut corner's....

................................................

All I wanted was high to mid 12 car but it seem's i over built and might have a low 12 high 11 street rod...........

But it will Make a nice weekend warrior......

maybe we might just have to get together a rip off a few run's...

I'll run it at union grove Drag way...........

then on east washington avenue in madison then my home strip in the dell's....:hail:.......:hail:.......:hail:.....

 

if you are using a 406 TPI then you are using the same electronics including the ecm. There is no such thing as a 406 tpi ecm. You should be modifying the prom to get the 406 running right but all the electronics are still the same. Its been proven hundreds of times a stock L98 will run mid 14s. Mine ran 14.2 when it was stock with some decent tires. Have you done the tune-up yet. I'm curious to see how much a good tune-up will affect a neglected car like yours. BTW I know you didn't beat the car.
JP

 

What I ment was i was going to start with all new stuff ta it would still be an L-98 ECm But a brand new one.......Is what i ment there guy......

 

nah I haven't gotten to it i was wiating till after i move to start working on the 87 GTA But tune up is first on the list.....

MODIFICATIONS I WOULD LIKE TO DO:

1.complete tune up. (Hasn’t had one since 1989)

2. EDELBROCK INTAKE AND RUNNERS.

3.52mm TB.

4.MSD IGNITION UPGRADES.

5.HEADERS.

6.NICE DUAL EXHAUST.

7.3.73 GEARS.

8.B&M FILTER KIT SHIFT IMPROVER.

9.CUSTOM BURNED CHIP.

10.255/55r16'S.

11.CAM SHAFT UPGRADE. (292*DUR.525LIFT).

12. UPGRADE HEAD'S.

13.NICE 10.2-10.6:1 C/R.

This is what i was going to do then I got side tracked and thought maybe do these mod's to a 406... and have a 406TPI instead of a L-98 350tpi....

sept for the 406 i would go with a 292*Dur.575 lift cam....and 58mm TB and stealth ram....... Only alteration's i'd make from that list for the 406 over the 350....
:hail: :hail:

 

I think youd be better off getting the holley stealth ram. Runners and a base will cost just as much and have a lot less performance. Get rid of the LTRs and get the stealthram!!!! Its like $500 including everything to get it going.

It also makes your intake very simple, not 500 pieces like it is now. www.stealthram.com

Seriously, check into this first... Here are some flow numbers I got off that site. I am assuming that the Edelbrocks and the Accels have very similar flow numbers..

 

Maybe so that seem's like A decent increase there But the EdleBrock intake runner's are an extra 3/8" Bigger in Diameter for like $320. That should alsome be a hell of an increase and still Maintain the stock apearence............

As where the Ram intake's make it look like I just swapped in an LT-1........

All tho they are turning some awsome number's.....

But couldn't i get that setup then run a Nice 406 under it???

 

See what Picard did with his 406, exhaust,injectors etc.
Stock runners are limited, need to get a bigger throttle body. And if your are running short rods or long connecting rods changes the needs of the motor. I have built mild carberated 406 and they have awsume torque. You probably need a new prom also.

 

CARBS.............................

If i wanted a carbed car i would of gotten a 67 or a 77 not an 87
............

If i wanted a stalling studdering Carbed engine i would have boughten some 82-86 Bird not an 87GTA.........


Davey palmer........Here's your sign.......

 

I didn't mean to switch to carb, just stating 400 small blocks are awsume............................

 

O_o

*looks at your TBI*
*looks at the above statement*

*shakes head*



anyone ever tell ya that you have a big mouth?


id suggest rephrasing...well..... every reply you made to everyone in this thread, or eventually noones going to reply to your crap.
and then you really will have to learn how to do a search.

 

Oh Ok cool stuff......... then i take the sign back I'm sorry....

No harm ment i was just goofin around there......

But on my company truck's threre i have thought about swping the 500cfm holley 2bbl carb's for the holley 2bbl 670cfm TBI's
Justfor better performance a bit more power..Little less maintaince.... Right now with moderen hp and tq with them 50's 60's 70' gears I all ready get nailed for being over loaded...

my top hihway cruzing speed mya only be 67.50MPH but hell thats fast enough...

But why not make even more power and burn 10-15% less gas...

......... ......... .......

 

Yea I spose having a dual TBI setup on a 69 sorta blew my statment out of the water

:hail: ....:hail: ........:hail: .......:hail: .......:hail: ....:hail: .

 

But i never said anything about going from a carb to EFI tho Dude

FYI:
TBI is not carb it's EFI........Hence Throttle Body Injection......

:hail:

 

Thatz cool. I used to have a'71 RS and had 2 400 small blocks in it. A stock one was in it when I bought and I built a 4 bolt 400 with FI heads w/the 202's and big block springs. Ran good. At an old abandoned strip here in Denver used to take on some big blocks w/ladders and open headers..I just took the junk out of the trunk and run. The only official timed run was at Bandimere (mile hi) was a 14.5, but I lunched the tranny at mid track and the mtr motor mounts about the same time. Good luck with your project.

 

MrDude_1 My reply's seem fine a little better then some Of your's...


AloT of your Statment's Are more opion then fact.......

Witch is cool But.... Not alway's help ful...

 

I was curious....

91 GTA Ramair2 - where are you from? Your english and sentence formation is horrible. If you aren't from America then I can understand but if you are then ... .. . wow.

A TPI406 is a bad idea unless you are going for pure stealth. You'll put down some OK numbers but they won't be great ... they'll be rather low for what a 406 can really make. If you use the Edelbrock Base and Runners then you'll be lucky if you get 325 at the rear wheels. I have friends who have done this and dynoed the combo. Use at least a Holley Stealth Ram.

Tim

 

I type too fast and don't watch what i type.

that and my hey board is shot 95% of my hey's are blank..

I wasn't really going for a spelling/english class here.
Mostly hick's *******'s & gear head's on these sites
i thought.

BTW what dose this have to do with building a 406TPI???

the intake and runers BTW was if i was going to keep the L-98.


stealth ram was the pland with a 58mm TB if i was going 406.

 

thanks

 

Oh come on now S-10......

You know i didn't mean it as a bad thing.....

I'm sorry S-10 :yourock: and you know it...

 

In reply to Traxion's numbers I just had SDPC built me a 350, 4 bolt, SDPC Vortec TPI intake base, Hot cam, FastBurn aluminum heads, headers, 21lb injectors, custom PROM, TPIS plenum & runners in a 91 Z and on a conservation dyno I had 344ft/lbs & 278HP. Not big numbers but it's really quick if you can hook it up.

 

I so should i just do the mod's above to the L-98 and drive it till it die's????

 

I'd say get it running correctly first, then you can mod it. Otherwise you are just throwing money down the drain, in which case you should just buy some parts for me. The only thing i need yet are AFR 190s for a killer setup. So how about it?
JP