I'm going to convert my 305 tbi to tuned port, but ive been thinking that it would be cool to put an LS1 intake on there(if it will work). Will a LS1 intake work? I am also thinking about new heads.

I have a '91 305 tbi, and that sh*t ain't cuttin it.

 

No!!!

There are no components from the LS1 engine which are compatable with earlier versions of Chevys small block.

I like the concept, maybe an aftermarket company will market such an item.

 

But a converted LT1 intake, or a HSR is a great upgrade.

I want to keep the stock hood so my choices are Mini-ram, SR, or upgraded TPI, or LT1 converted.

Stupid firebird hood is too low for a HSR until they make a low profile plenum. Though I've seen a Formula hood cut-up to fit a HSR under it. But never a TransAm or Firebird hood.

 

actually, the only part that is the same from the gen 1 engines all the way to the gen 3 engines is the rod bearing. So no, the intake will not work, not even with a lot of modifications.

 

Sure you can modify the LS1 manifold to work on your 305. Here's how:

1: Take your LS1 manifold and modify it into money (by selling it)
2: Take your money and modify it into a TPI setup (by buying it)
3: Bolt it on.

Boom, done. You have now sucessfully modified an LS1 manifold to bolt onto your gen 1 small block.

P.S. This techinque works well on almost any manifold, or any car part in general.

 

Never say never. The main thing to over come is its intake pattern into the heads....its more like a Ford than a Chevy.

TPI
0 00 0

LS1
0 0 0 0

This will require a ton of modding and welding which defeats the purpose of the intake itself since the runner lengths would need to be modified. The cost of this I imagine would also be quite high. So its not a feasible swap, don't even think about it......but I wouldn't call it impossible. Of course I guess you could argue than modifying the runners to fit the manifold no longer make it an LS1 but that's besides the point.

 

actually the sbc intake pattern is 00 00.

 

Yep, that is correct. Iroc n roll had the exhaust pictured.

Intake: 00 00
Valves: EI IE EI IE
Exhaust: 0 00 0

A crude diagram at best but you get the idea.

There are several differences to overcome that are just as challenging, such as:

1. The dimensions are completely different, lenght and width.
2. No provisions for a distributor.
3. No provisions for a thermostat housing.
4. No provisions for an EGR valve.
5. Different throttle body mounting dimsnsions.
6. Different fuel system: LS1 is a returnless system where as TPI is not. You can't run the TPI fuel rails because of the injector placement differences, but you also can't run the LS1 rail because the fuel system in a thirdgen has a return line with the regualtor mounted at the engine. You would have to run the LS1 fuel pump module with the regualtor inside the tank.

For all intensive purposes, it is impossible.

 

I had a feeling is was going to mix the ports. Yes I put the exhaust not the intake, either way the idea is the same. This is kind of a "half-full or half-empty" debate. Yes, by no means is it feasible at the moment to put an LS1 intake on an L98 or LB9. But even you yourself are already coming up with ways to overcome the obstacles. Can we remember the day when everyone said an LT1 intake was impossible for some of the same reasons?

1. No provisions for a distributor.
2. No provisions for a thermostat housing.
3. No provisions for an EGR valve.

You proposed a method to over come fuel problems and an adapter would need to be made to mount the intake to the heads, like a two piece intake, to overcome dimensions and port discrepancies. Is this worth it, of course not, but I just want to say that it can be done. I just think its better to think optimistically about technological advancement and place something like this in the "not worth it" catagory rather than than "impossible".

 

1) Let's say someone made the an LS1 intake that would fit the SBC GEN 1 heads. The product was made entirely new, so the intake pattern and the bolt pattern lined up...

2) Would it possible to drill and mount using a spacer to get the distributor back there? Does anyone have a straight down upon pic of the LS1/6 intake?

3) Use the same system that John Millican is using for the LT1

4) Where is the EGR system on the LS cars? Is it possible to run a pipe to feed the EGR valve? If so the wiring would just need to be extended to reach the solenoid.

5) Get a monoblade for the LS1. (maybe not cost effective)

6) I think that you answered this one, but maybe another idea. Is there a possibility to tab into the LS1 fuel rails to enable a way for a return and an FPR?

 

How can anyone think that LS1 engine parts can fit a Gen1 block?

Yesterday it was a question about an LS1 cam in a 305. Today it's an LS1 intake. Give me a break. Just put the whole LS1 in and be done with it.

To make your 305 run better, keep the stock TPI set up and just port the plenum and base manifold. Better yet, install a cam with mild duration like 212/218@.050 with mid to upper 400 lift and get a set of SR Torquer heads and have them pocket ported.

Or, just install a 125 NOS kit!

 

Now the main questions:

Let's say SDPC, TPIS, or even GM (yeah right) were going to make this product and everything did work out.

What would the finer points be? How much HP difference? Would you get the same powerband as the LS cars?

It might be worth a shot to get a working getting a working prototype done.

 

Nobody seems to realize the LS1 manifold is made of phenolic resin & isn't the easiest stuff to modify. It seem more feasable to design a manifold of similar design from scratch.

 

The power gains arent in the intake, its in the heads.

And if you really wanted to throw money away, you could:

Order a custom camshaft
Modify the block for the heads
Mill the intake a little
Run a TEC II/III or some other distributorless setup
Yada Yada Yada... skipping small details


By the time you do all that, you could buy a used LS1 engine, rebuild it, make up all the fab stuff, have someone install it for you, and not have some creation from hell that nobody would look twice at anyway. And I'd bet a dollar it'd be 100x as reliable.

 

Correct. Please, no should actually consider doing an LS1 intake modification. I just wanted to point out that it wan't impossible but rather it was what everyone has been getting at.....not cost effective.

 

Sorry I have to...INTENTS and purposes, INTENTS and purposes.

Thank you and carry on.

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/intensive.html

 

Sorry, I stand corrected. Who whould have thought that you could learn a grammer lesson on thirdgen.org anyway? Thanks for the correction, it won't happen again.

 

Not really "grammar". Not to worry, as you can see on that page it is a wide spread misuse of the saying.

On the tech side... it wouldn't be worth all of the work it would take to get that manifold to fit a pre LS1 engine.

Now, if you could get a set of LS1 style heads made to fit a SBC, use a crank trigger ignition and the LS1 induction........

 

Just go with a Miniram or modified LT1 intake and be happy!

 

I would have to disagree on the gains would be minimal.

I know the heads are sweet, but this intake will support low end (2300rpm) torque, and high end.

What is the difference in the heads between GEN I, GEN II & GEN III(LS1)?

 

*** dont you guys know, its not the heads cam or intake that makes the power of the LS1 *** its the fairy that lives inside (comes standard from GM)

retro fitting an LS1 anything to any motor is a bad idea, instead just go to a current LS1 and steal the magic fairy inside, and put it into your motor's crank case and BAM Ls1 power.

of course make sure you get the 2nd version of the fairy the version 1 was prone to going "clunk clunk clunk" everyone thought it was piston slap but it was actually the fairy banging on the walls (too tall) newer LS1s have a higher deck to prevent this.

 

1 & 2 the difference is the intake bolt hole angle on the center 2 for starters.... 1& 2 to 3...everyting is different, head bolt holes, coolant passages, combustion chamber location....everything.

 

I guess I need to be a little more specific. What is the difference that actually make the performance better. The port design, I'm sure is one of them. CC's is probably another.

 

THIS IS NOT RETROFITTING POST ANYMORE.

This is a question of design and if a company were to make it, would it be worth it to them. What would the powerband difference be, will it have the same pull on a GEN I block with good heads as it is on the LS1....etc.

You guys no this is going to be brought up again in the future, why not answer all of the questions now.

 

I think the actual chamber size is pretty much like most other SBC, the design is what has changed. They are supposed to promote better flame propagation and be less prone to detonation. I don't know that you'd be able to make a chamber like it on a SBC because of valve location and angle.
Another thing that helps them is that the intake/exhaust ports are not next to each other so the heat is distributed more evenly.

 

the closest thing you can get is to put a SB2.2 top end on a SBC. that will fix the valve angle, port layout and chamber shape.

meanwhile im going to figure out how to put this ford mustang intake on my SBC... after all, they have a hell of alot more in common then the LS1 intake does. and atleast i can weld and modify it.

 

Why on earth would you wanna put an LS1 intake on anyways? IMO, it's one of the biggest restrictions on the thing. Like said before, the intake doesn't make the power, the heads and big cam do.

 

The ONLY thing that an LS1 has in common with anything GEN 1 SBC is that they both reside under the hood of a car named Camaro or Firebird. Thats it! LS1 and TPI can both be found under the hood of an F body. Everything, and I mean everything, is different.

If you find youself asking "yeah, but is __________ the same?" The answer is NO! "But what about...." NO!

 

I disagree the intake is miles ahead of any intake on any gen 1 or 2 SBC. It’s design maintains a high velocity over a broader RPM range then most intakes and since it is not metal it dose not retain heat as well, which means cooler air entering the engine. I agree with it being a complete waste of time, money, and effort to bother trying to put a LS1 intake on a gen 1 SBC. Your better off designing and building your own “LS1 Style” intake then hopelessly trying to modify one.

 

im all for making stuff work... and swapping/ modifying parts to work.



but this whole thread is just a show of ignorance of what the parts are, what they look like, what they are made from, and how they work.



on a side note, if i had a LS1 in a thirdgen, i wouldnt run a LS1 intake either... the truck intake flows better... the only reason the vettes and Fbodys dont have them is height.... they wont clear the hood line on thoes cars, but they'll clear with a 3rdgen (bearly)

 

wrong, the heads do that, not the intake. That's why you see so many guys trying to design different intakes because the LS1 intake just won't cut it.

 

im telling you all, just steal the fairy inside. why doesnt anyone listen to me?

look the reason im saying that is because this HAS been discussed before. LS-1s are not magical, their intakes arnt magical, their bottom ends are NOT magical. there is no fairy inside, well maybe but still.

its just a good combination of parts, like any motor, that makes good useable power, with a properly matched drivetrain that nets good fuel economy and is fun to drive. with the properly matched parts and drivetrain you can have the same results from any small block camaro. people always assume because its an Ls-1 that its special and magical and they absolutelly must have Ls-1 parts in their motor because they make it faster.