I've done a quick search on the boards, it looks like alot are running Edelbrock base with SLP runners. BUT, alot seem to complain of SLP quality. How come more aren't running the Edelbrock runners with that base? They are matched togeather. I mean Edelbrock would have made simese runners if they were WAY better wouldn't they. As well as Accel, another of priemer TPI products - Lingenfelter. AS&M makes both, and TPIS, who sell AS&M, only sell LT runners now, no simese. Accel and AS&M/TPIS are more $ than Edelbrock and SLP. Being that SLP are some of the last simese ones out now, and with everyone else making LT's, wouldn't the Edelbrocks be a fine choice?
How many with the complete Edelbrock set-up are satisfied, or how many wish they did SLP's? Anyone tried both? What were the biggest differences in performace, quality, and ease of install. (I know every manufacture says "direct bolt-on", but I think we all know most things need a little tweeking at the very least to make it fit)
They both have thier own unique appearences, and are the cheapest of what's out there, but I have heard so many complaints of SLP runner quality - there are alot of posts to prove that. Are the Edelbrocks a bad, cheap second (or first) choice?
Sorry for going on.

 

I'm definitely going to run the Edelbrock base. The qualms I've heard about the Edelbrock runners is that they're too small. Why aren't they siamesed? I don't know. Could air distribution to each intake be a factor?

Spoke to a guy who recommended the Edelbrock base with ASM runners. He has talked to TPIS about their Big Mouth and said that TPIS didn't have a bad thing to say about it. He also mentioned that it's quite possible the TPIS intake is made by Edelbrock, can't say that for a fact, though.

I'm also going to dremel the plenum with a gasket match.

 

The TPIS intake is an Edelbrock. It's got the casting numbers right on it. The difference is that the TPIS has been ported.

I run an accel intake. If you search this site, you'll find that most people seem to keep saying over and over that the Accel is no better than the others, but a search on the corvette forum tells an entirely different story. Either way, I have the accel, and the SLP runners worked fine once I trimmed the runners a little. The mounting surface for the runners was too big to fit on the machined surface of the baseplate, but it was a minimal interference that 5 minutes with a grinder took care of. The ports lined up reasonably well, and after a little port work, they lined up perfectly.

 

Actually, when I was at Edelbrock, I recall that we also made Accel's manifold base as well. But that was about five years ago. Don't know if that's changed.

Edelbrock does (at least I know they did) make TPIS's manifold.

 

i have SLP Runners, Edelbrock Base, BBK 58mm TB, BBK AFPR, Ported/Siamesed/Polished Plenum...


but unfortunately, it's all sitting in my garage, waiting for more porting before i can put it on.

 

The TPIS base is $425 and another $75 if you want it ported. The Edelbrock is $380 and probably somewhere in the $75 neighborhood to port it.

Some people use the Accel SuperRam but they also said the unit was very difficult to assemble and disassemble.

 

Right, Edelbrock makes the base for both TPIS and Accel. You will find the same part number on all three. Something like 3820 without looking it up.

I'm using the Edelbrock base extrude honed and the early style SLP runners. They are port matched.

I have now broken in my engine and getting ready for the final tune. I have had a serious knock problem and getting a lot of spark retard. Turns out 75% was the roller lifters. One more adjustment took care of that. Now need to see why the knock in the 3000 rpm range under wot.

Expecting around 400 hp at the flywheel. At least that is what the computer says. Allen

 

I previously had serious doubts as to the TPIS claim that not even a fully ported stock manifold would suffice. I didn't know if that was just some marketing stuff and they wanted to sell more of their manifolds. But with more reading and research, it seems like it's true.

 

Right, Edelbrock makes the base for both TPIS and Accel. You will find the same part number on all three. Something like 3820 without looking it up.

I'm using the Edelbrock base extrude honed and the early style SLP runners. They are port matched.

I have now broken in my engine and getting ready for the final tune. I have had a serious knock problem and getting a lot of spark retard. Turns out 75% was the roller lifters. One more adjustment took care of that. Now need to see why the knock in the 3000 rpm range under wot.

Expecting around 400 hp at the flywheel. At least that is what the computer says. Allen

 

I appreciate all the responces on this topic. But now on to the opinions on the runners. I'm still curious on why not Edelbrock runners over SLP. Accel, AS&M/TPIS are just too much cash. I've checked all websites, as well as Thunder Racing. Aren't the Edelbrocks just as big as Accel, and AS&M? I thought I once read they were 1.7 or something. What's Accel and AS&M? Will a bit of "dremil" work to the Edelbrock runners make them as big as the competition if they aren't already?
But as I first wondered, why did the people with Edelbrock bases running SLP runners not choose the Edelbrock runners to go with their bases? And how many are happy with their Edelbrock "packages"?
Thanks in advance for the opinions and info guys, you get better feedback from users of these products than manufacturers of them sometimes.

 

HEY 1989 GTATRANSAM, ? 4 U..? I READ IN YOUR FIRST REPLY THAT YOU HAD KNOCK DO TO ROLLER ROCKERS WHERE THEY FULL ROLLERS OR JUST ROLLER TIPS AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO FIX THAT...I HAVE ROLLER TIP ROCKERS AND GETTING ALOT OF KNOCK RETARDING...sorry to change the subject... thanx paul...

 

The AS&Ms are 1.75" The prolem with porting runners is, its very hard to port the whole runner, and evenly. You can usually get a few more rpm at the cost of some torque with properly siamesed SLP runners.

 

Are the SLP runners still in production?

 

as far as i know, yes, you can check on www.slponline.com

 

They are still in production and they're only $250.00 The TPIS ones were very expensive. Looks like I know what runners I'll be using over the winter.

 

I have a question. Why would someone Pay all the money for better TPI Base and Runners and Plenum. For the price you are going to have in it you could more than easily switch to a Holley Stealth Ram or almost a Mini Ram For the Same Money and Better benifits. Not trying to discourage just trying to understand WHY.

Just my

 

I can answer form my point of view...

There was no HSR when I bought my Accel base and intake.

Even if there were an HSR, I couldn't use it due to SMOG restrictions.

Also, the MR isn't smog legal (for me).

My choices are simply

Aftermarket base/runners...

Or Accel SR.

At the time of the GP we did for Accel, I couldn't swing it for the SR (wish I did now) so opted for the Accel base and runners...priced decently at about 600 bucks, IIRC.

Also, in response to an above post, I don't recall a "3380" casted in my intake, but do recall ACCEL casted (raised) on it with the firing order too...would Edelbrock cast a competitors name?

 

Depending On State. My Inspection Station says as long as it passes the sniffer it's ok. I have no Cat and No EGR and still passed Emission, I currently still have a Stock LTR TPI. There are plenty of people With HSR, Mini Ram with no CAT and Pass Emissions.. Some states say If it passes the Sniffer it has to have the EGR and Smog Equipment.

 

Yes. BIG MOUTH is cast into my Big Mouth manifold. As it was sitting next to my edel I could see the same casting screwup identical on both. Don't remember any casting no. being the same, but I wasn't really looking.

I had both the SLP and the AS&M. Personally, I liked the AS&M better, but I also built for stealth. :shrug:

 

Also the high rpm intakes like the mr and hsr don't give much gain on engines with stock heads. Whereas an LTR setup can help boost 3000-5000rpm range where stock heads make their power. So if you have aftermarket heads and cam go get the hsr or mr. Its just stock heads are matched better to an LTR setup. Pus some ppl like idea of a stock looking intake, or at least stock style. To the untrained eye my engine bay looks very clean but also very stock. And i like that.

 

I have a 3-piont STB, that with my stock 'bird hood, and the Holley can't even dream of fitting. As for cost, a mini-ram is HUGE dollars, and a superram is more cash than runners. (with stock plenum ported) Especially if one looks to the less expensive runners on the market - SLP or Edelbrock.
-RED DEVIL, you had both SLP and AS&M? If you liked the AS&M ones better, than with the Edelbrocks more like them, the Edelbrocks might be a better choice?
Getting SLP's, then porting them fully - simesing - would give more RPM? But isn't most street driving in the usable, lower rpm? And also, how do the Edelbrock's and SLP compare in build quality?
Thanks again for opinions people.

 

i just put on a edlebrock baseplate and as&m runners...let me tell u these runners are the finest things ive ever seen...very high quality,etc...dont have any info on gains or anything yet however

 

someone in my area is selling used edelbrock headers and baseplate. any idea what kinda HP gains I will get off of this? I was thinking about just getting my factory stuff ported but if aftermarket would work alot better than ported factory.... anybody wanna fill me in? Thanks

 

Looked around the net, Accel and AS&M runners are just too much cash for me. It definetly is coming down to SLP and Edelbrock. At this point, I'm leaning toward the best quality. Which one is that?

 

I liked AS&M for the fact that you couldn't really tell the diff from stock. Used to come in handy.

 

I personally don't like the stealth ram and mini ram for street cars. You loose a lot of low end power which is what you use most for street driving. I wish there was a better intake out there then TPI that would keep some of TPI’s low end grunt but still pull past 5000 RPM’s. The Holley stealth ram doesn’t even seem to come to life until 5000 RPM’s that’s what scares me away from it. I don’t care about how much power an intake makes past 6000 RPMs because I don’t want to blow up my engine revving it that high and that’s where the stealth ram and mini ram shine.

I opted for an Accel base and AS&M Siamese runners (runners going on soon). I did a lot of research into Accel vs. Edelbrock base and I cam to the conclusion that Accel’s intake is better. Go over to corvette form and read up on some of the posts they have about it. Also you can get the Accel intake for about $390 which is close to what summit racing wants for the Edelbrock intake, just give the guys at http://www.cruzinperformance.com/ a call.

 

Well you could always go This Route


Pick a Single Plane intake you like the RPM band and Send it to Force-EFI.com To convert it to Fuel Injection Or better yet Do it your Self, The Nice thing about this is You can Change the Plenum Size by using Different Size Spacers and Tune it where you want it. Accel, Edelbrock both make A Single Plane Intake that Already has Fuel Injector Bungs and A Fuel Rail Kit available. If you can do your own Proms This investment Would Be Killer, Just ask Anesthes, he did his own and used a Vortech TB and made a adapter, he is very happy.

Anyways sorry about Hyjacking THe Thread

Just my

 

well I got the Edlebrock base and runners . The edlbrock runners are Bigger than the SLP's CHeck my www. for more pics on page 2 and 3 I had mine ported into the runners 4 " to get a RPM topend of about 5500 . TO match the ZZ4 camshaft in it. I Seen both SLP ...and Edlebrock ...and EDlbrock are bigger ports ....but a tad shorter maybe . Trigger GTA on this sight would know better ....he ported both set

 

GREAT site, done ALOT of reading here and wish to extend my gratitude to all of you folks that freely give your info to others.

1988 IROC:
350 cu in, Steel Crank, H-Beam Rods, Floating Pins, 10:1 Teflon Pistons, Dart stage 1 Heads, ZZ4 Roller Cam, Cloyes Roller Chain, Stainless Comp Cams Roller Rockers, Edlebrock Base Manifold (siamesed 2.500"), SLP SR's, Ported/Siamesed Plenum, 52mm TB, Airfoil, 22lb SVO Injectors, MSD Ignition, Edlebrock Shorty Headers, 3" Cat-Back System, Flowmaster, 2200 Stall Converter, 700R4 With Tons of HD Parts/Mods, 9-Bolt 3.27 Posi.

Going to get into the chip burning game next i guess!

Not back in the car yet but, soon

This is my first TPI attempt, comments, opinions, tips???

 

Dont wanna hijack this thread with questions of my own but Ive read SOOOOO many threads on Intake runners but I still have simple questions have yet to be answered.

Ive seen intake runners sell for low prices and Ive seen others go for a lot more. Im assuming that the aftermarket ones are ported more than stock ones BUT why is AS&M so much more than Accels? Is because they have the biggest ports? Im assuming you can only port SOOO much because you cant get a dremel in "all the way"?

Second....
What do people mean when they talk about siamising the plenum? Is that just port matching everything?

TIA

Dan

 

Siamising the plenum is when the dividers between the four sets of two close runners are knocked out of the plenum. This is done when matched with siamised runners to create a larger plenum volume. This increases rpm potential some. The AS&M runners are expensive because they are the biggest and are the best quality. They are extruded aluminum whereas most others are cast. Also, they look very stock. Mainly they perform the best, look the best, and require no modifying to install, so they can charge the most. I got mine brand new off ebay for $220 shipped.

 

Thanks for the info....

As for your comment about they perform the best... is that a fact or opinion? (NO scarcism (sp) was written with that sentence...)

And as for no modifying needed to install....does that mean you dont need to siamise them or do they come "presiamised?"

If they ARE the best runners out there...I MUST GET THEM BY ANY MEANS!

TIA

Dan

 

Well if you look at any dyno or flow bench test, they always perform the best. There are a few articles floating around. I believe one is on stealthram.org or .com whatever.

They are long tube runners by nature. Some other brands like SLP have runners that are designed to be siamesed and have siamiesed plenums. This work you have to do yourself. Also AS&M now has semi-siamiesed runners availible, i dont' have these, but they are very nice, however they need to have the plenum siamiesed. Also the bolt on part is not entirely true. For the regular AS&M runners you will need to enlarge the plenum outlet holes to the size of the bigger runners. This is no big deal but requires a dremel or similar grinding tool. Have i confused you enough? I will try and attach some pics showing the differences.

These are stock runners.

 

These are AS&M runners. They come in an aluminum finish but i don't have any pics of them bare.

 

Not my car, but these are SLP runners, see how these can be siamiesed?

 

Here is a shot of my edlebrock base and runners . The runners are siamesed 4" into them . The base ( can't see ) is honed abit aswelll




they have a lomger runner than SLP but they were more open than them

 

SLP's

 

So if money is no object then you are looking at AS&M runners on an Edelbrock base? And you want the AS&M runners to be siamesed and the base to be port-matched?

And if you do that your powerband can stretch to ....?

Jason

 

No you can't siamiese the regular AS&M without a huge amount of work. You can buy semi siamiesed AS&Ms for more money, but they don't require any work. If you are set on siamiesing get the SLP and go to town with the dremel. Also the siamiesed ones will raise rpm potential more than standard long tube runners. Personally i perfer the TPIS big mouth($$$) or Accel/Lingenfelter base because they are bigger out of the box. With some work the edelbrock can flow as well.

 

Well since Edelbrock's are bigger in diameter than SLP, and you can siamiese either, wouldn't the Edelbrock's be the ticket?? Bigger ports with the siamiesing????

 

..thats what I figured ..... but they are a bit more cash than the SLP's ....not sure about the ASM. The Edlebrocks were bigger in diameter ..... but longer in length ( not by much really) than the SLP's . The edlebrocks look to have more meat in the to take out aswell . In my earlier post ...you can see inside the runners where they have been siamesed . Look at that then look at the SLP's siamesed ones .....it just seems I can open the edlebrocks up more. I am gueesing here but I am hopeing to get this mill to make power to 5500 rpm's ( the top end of the ZZ4 cam ).

 

I *thought* I understood pretty much everything you posted until this last post here. (I put **** to the part I didnt understand) To my understanding whatever intake runners/plenum/manifold you port and/or siamiese you're gonna get more power overall correct? IF thats correct Id assume that if you got AS&M's runners AND ported/siamiesed these to your plenum you'd get more power than if you did these with another companys runners....correct? And what's semi siamiesing????

Dan

 

Ok siamiesing is making the two runners right next to each other the same runner. You actually connect the two by taking the wall out between them. This in affect shortens the runner length, allowing for more rpm, depending on heads, cam, intake and such. If you look at the AS&M runners there are 8 completely independent runner tubes. If you look at the SLP runners there are only 4 independent runner units. Then there is a divider in each of the 4 runner units to make 8 runners. You can knock down the divider in the SLPs, and to some extent the Edelbrocks which connects the two near runners. So the point where each cylinder gets its own runner is shorter then before you siamiesed the runners.

Buddy, I have never dealt with edelbrock runners, but it appears they cannot be siamiesed to make an oval, but rather a figure 8 type shape. It seems to me this would not quite be as effective as a complete siamiese, which would be an oval shape. The slp's can be made into 'ovals'.

AS&M offers a semi siamiesed runner where the top 4" or so of the runners are siamiesed then the rest are 8 individual tubes.

I will include some drawings. Very crude drawings.

 

Stock styles runners, which includes AS&M and stock runners. We are looking at the runners as if it is sitting on the floor face up. The top holes are where it gets air from the plenum and the bottom holes are where they give air to the base manifold. See here there are four seperate tubes? 4tubes*2runners=8 total runners. The two close runners can't be connected because there is not material actually connecting those runners.

 

Stock slp runners. Ther are siamiesed about 1" on the plenum side. Also the siamiesed part is very small. But you can see the potential to siamiese because the two near runner tubes are connected by metal (gray part). There is only a divider seperating them.

 

This is a typically ported SLP runner. The divider is knocked down maybe 4-6" down the runner. Also the outlet of the plenum needs to be the same shape as the inlet of the siamiesed runner. So you have to remove the divider there too.

 

This is a fully ported SLP runner. There is no divider the whole way through. You don't see this very offen. Its a lot of work and most likely not worth it. I'm not certain how perfect of an oval you can get, but i know it gets at least pretty close to this.

 

Here is a stock edelbrock. The metal inbetween the individual runners isn't as thick as the runners themselves so they can't be ported as far as the SLPs. Once again i havn't dealt with edelbrocks up close so i'm make educated assumptions based on pics and descriptions.

 

Siamiesed Edelbrock. I believe you can only siamiese maybe 1-2". But once again i'm unsure on these. Maybe someone with more expirence can chime in.

Edit: after inspection of some pics further up in this thread the runners can be ported further in.

 

These are the stock Semi Siamiesed runners offered by AS&M, they come siamiesed about 4" down, then they turn into standard individual runners for the rest of the way down.

Nice pics of these and a nicely matched plenum can be found here. http://student.dpg.devry.edu/~d00712...hcie/index.htm
Props to Thirdgen89GTA

Moderators, sorry for the many pictures. I hope they can stay because they are small and i believe serve a legitimate purpose.