so before "do a search" people start running amock i already did that, and i have questions.


engine is 355 TPI, ported SLP runners, flat top pistons(4 valve reliefs) headers, full exaust, 1.5 roller rockers, stock L98 heads with mild porting and 1.6 exhaust valves, 24# injectors, ADJ reg, i also have a T-56 and 3:23 gearing.

right now i have a 93 LT1 cam which i believe is a 202 207, 450 451 on 117 LSA.

my question is what would be a streetable cam to go with if i went with Trick Flow 23* heads? im saving to buy these heads and since the old ones will come off, its a good time to swap a cam. any suggestions? what should i be looking for?


cars intended usage is every day, and once a month to the street legals

 

If I had to start from scratch with a TPI daily driver and a monthly trip to the strip I would use the GM 12370845 cam. It has a 214/224 duration at .050. Has .488"/.509" lift with 1.5 rockers. .520/.543 with 1.6 rockers. This will get you over 400HP at the flywheel with a good exhaust and intake system. Allen

 

what type of springs do i need to use? anything special?

thanks Allen..

 

I bought the Trickflow heads with the double springs mainly for the extra safety factor. Are you going to Fontana on January 22? My car should be a little quicker this time around. Looking for low 13's. I'll have to learn how to hook up and drive better for the 12's. Allen

 

yeah im going, i dont know if i will have the heads and cam by then but im trying

 

Forget the Trick Flows. I have them. Bang for the buck, I along with many other people do not feel they perform at the $1200.00 level. They are a good head though. I would not buy them for a TPI though, the Combustion chamber and intake runner volume is more suited for a higher RPM application. If I were you I would go with a set of HEAVILY ported vortecs, AFR 180's or Edelbrocks. If I had a spare set of heads to put on my car I would sell you my Trick Flows and get some AFRs (that is the summer plan). Ask anyone on here, If you are going to spend a big buck, buy a big proven name. Cannfield, Dart, AFR, they are solid.

If you are going to be using the stock L98 heads I would go with the ZZ4 cam. You would greatly benefit from the loooonger exhaust valve duration with those heads. If you went with other heads I would get a LPE 211/219 or 219/219 cam. Both solid proven performers that are awesome with TPI.

 

Add another $300 for the vortec specific TPI manifold... not such a bargan then.

 

And the fact that it doesn't flow NEARLY what the trickflow flows, and its iron.

Some people are just determined to go slow. I don't get it.

-- Joe

 

I'm curious how you determined this? I hope a TPI setup had nothing to do with your equation.

-- Joe

 

The 4 valve relief pistons, are those a -6.10cc setup like the TRW-L2256 ?

I'd really need specs on your block to give you a true idea of compression ratio, etc.. Say you have the 2256, and you have it set on a fresh block. That puts the piston at 9.003", with .022" clearance.

If you run a .039 gasket you'll get too much clearance, but say you run a .020" gasket (cometic or something good), that will give you exactly 10:1 compression ratio.

I'd recommend you yank your heads, measure your piston installed height to get an idea if your blockes a 9.025" deck or not, then go from there.

The trickflows are 62cc as cast. If you polish 'em up (as suggested) CC 'em and polish until you get 64cc on all ports.

-- Joe

 

Im running the Crane 214/218(closest to cant remem exact)

And with my 1.6 rockers it about 215/216 with like 221/222 on the exhaust and right around .500 for lift.

This is on a vortec headed TPI 383 :-) Should pull hard and smooth for the application. Choose wisely and be honest as to how the car will be used, street or strip bias?

I also erred on the small side due to a probable turbocharger in the near future.
later
Jeremy

 

every other day driver..

weekend basher.. once a month tot he track.

i dont really want to go the vortec route because i dont want to buy a $400 intake manifold thats monopolized by 1 company. i beleive right now my compression ratio is like 9:8 so i was told.

 

If your still using the factory base you may want to replace it anyway, mabee sell the slp runners and buy a stealth ram?

 

Doh, I see your in the democratic peoples republic of.......... nevermind.

 

yeah i know.. Killafornia.

my only intake option is the Super Ram. which im not opposed to if i can find a used one for cheap. not going to spend 1200$ on it.

im waiting on that part till BBK comes out with theirs.

 

Correct. A set of stock Vortecs do not flow as much. That is why I said to have them ported. I think you missed that part. Many people are running around with ported Vortecs on TPI cars and doing great with good flow numbers. 1bad91Z is the best example off hand. He and many othere people do not go slow with them. Do not forget that The trick Flows are a 195 runner volume. That is more suited to higher RPM applications such as my stealth ram or other intakes. The Vortecs with their 170 runner and design make them better for the lower ranging TPI design. You knowall this though Joe.

 

I have looked at many post in the Aftermarket and product review boards along with friends in the area and such. There are alos a lot of people who have had trouble with them, myself included. If I can save him the trouble, I will try. For almost the same price he can get a set of AFRs and perform better. The Edelbrocks would probably even perform better on the usual TPI. If you start to research Trick Flow heads you usually come up with sub-optimal results.

 

So the cost is still less than a set of Trick Flows or AFRs. Even Holley is coming out with a Vortec Stealth Ram though. Many people are happy with their set up of the Vortec parts, some are not. There will always be "others."

 

So hows Mike's car running these days? I remember when he posted the flow numbers on those race vortecs of his.

I dissagree with you on the vortecs. I hope your ok with that. I don't like them. I've researched trickflows, and I think they're a great head. Thats why I bought them.

-- Joe

 

my 1988 sport coupe went a 7.99 on a set of stock vortec heads with a stock 20,000 mile short block out of a truck and a comp 284xe cam. it had flowtech 1 1/2 inch shorty headers and a gm intake with a dui hei dist and the advance locked at 32 degrees. it was carbed with a 650dp and i ran on 87 octane gas and had no power adder. i had a 3200 stall and 3.27 gears and i was running on bfg 255/50/16 dr's.the car weighed 3300lbs with me in it. it was my only car .
i ran a 7.99 1/8 mile.
thats roughly a 12.45 1/4 mile
i ran this with vortec heads.
i built my motor for $985.
i was DETERMINED to go as fast as i could possibly go with out spending more than $1000. i could not have done this with a set of heads that cost me $1200.
so maybe your wrong about vortecs, and maybe the slow cars you have seen with them are not even close to optimal?

 

I'm glad you got so far on 1k. What was the mph at the 1/8th ?

I wouldn't convert your 1/8th out to a 1/4 mile guestimate. Your car might not make it to the 1/4 mark. Or it might get there with too much power left. Leave those calculators for people that like to calculate. I'd like to see how your car actually performs in the 1/4, it could be better or worse than you guess.

An example. I have some friends with some imports. At the 1/8 they are around 9.00 seconds. At the 1/4, mid 11s. BUT, at the same MPH (or slightly lower) than my 12.40 et's. (119mph)

MPH is really the measure of performance. The ET really has nothing to do with it. I can light 'em up outta the whole and run a 13.40 @ 119mph, or run 12.40 (still no traction) @ 119mph.


I'm looking to go around 130-135mph next season. Something that was not realistic for my old IRON headed 8.9:1 compression 355.

-- Joe

 

Not at all. For a motor like ours I would still go with a set of Trick Flows over the Vortecs. One issue I never found out though is why Trick Flow said to use only ___ rockers because every other one will screw up your heads. While everyone else has every other head and does fine with the rockers that trick flow basically says are paper weights.

 

No Idea. Was that on the G1 heads? Cuz those sucked. Trickflow discontinued them when Summit bought trickflow. I'm refering to the 23* heads, especially the newer castings.

-- Joe

 

I did not know that either. I thought that Summit always owned them. There is a person on these boards who works for Trick Flow. R an D or Phones, that I have talked with that has said that. Even the times that I called Trick Flow they said the othere rockers that they did not list were because they did not maintain the same "Strict standards" as the ones listed. So they would cause stuff to wear out early at best.

 

Talk about ripping a company that your not even familiar with current products TIBO. Contrary to what the mags print the newer Duttweiler inline valve heads flow better than the original G1TW head. Out of the box on a SF600 my TFS heads flowed 254in/204ex at .600 lift. Low numbers were excellent. I wanted to stay at 1K when buying heads but figured the 200.00 extra for the TFS's was a nice compromise between the 1K heads and the AFR's. I have had TFS TW heads on my mustang since 96' and they have been on a stock 302, then a street/strip 306, now fully ported on a 393W. I'm glad I didn't start out with edeldbrock 6037's back in 96 because they would have never grown to where I am today on my 393. I was open minded on what I wanted to use on my 406 but TFS stuff is very versatile so that is what I went with.

I'm done waving the TFS flag now.

 

Lets get one thing straight here. I am not trying to RIP on anyone here, I am saying what I have found out. How did I find that out? I have owned them. So of course I am familiar with there "current products." If you had looked in my profile or signature you would have seen that I currently run the Kenny Duttweiler heads. I have done extensive research, I know how they flow. I have read all of the latest articles including the one of CHP where they flow tested a lot of cylinder heads, there were better for around the same price. I have also spent a lot of time on the phone with TFS. So what if they flow that at .6" lift. You should know that you do not judge a head by the peak numbers alone, don't you? There are not very many cams out there that run a cam above .6" lift. Your TFS heads work great on your mustang, great. Go brag about it on the mustang boards. I never said anything about flow Vs the old G1's and G2's, why do you bring it up?

 

Did you read my post they have excellent low lift #'s. Just keep believing everything you read in CHP.

 

And you keep up with that Narcissistic personality of yours.

 

I bought the G1 thing up earlier. Thats prolly where he got it from.

Your point btw, is actually why I chose the trickflow over my old sportsmans that I sold, and over Dart PRO 1. Dart's high lift numbers looked outstanding, but I wasnt running more than .540 lift anyway. The TFS had decent numbers from .100 lift and onward both on exhaust (blower happy!) and intake.

I'm just not a vortec fan. I'm sick of Iron heads.

An interesting setup would be a aluminum version of the vortec head, or a LT4 head on a SBC. (converted for std cooling). The only prob with GM alum heads however, is the damn guides and seats

-- Joe

 

I would love an aluminum Vortec head. Port the, well, port it out a lot and I could put it on another car.