I'm thinking 1989 is the oldest 3rd gen I should look for. The LB9 5 speed cars had 220hp. The power actually dropped in 1990, but I get the dash upgrade if I get a 1990+. What are the significant changes I should keep in mind when looking for these cars? The dash change is good because I get a 6 digit odo, but the less power is kinda crappy opinions, thoughts, experiences?

 

89 and up rear discs!

 

my 87 Iroc had rear discs

 

Not the PBR Aluminum Calipers and 11.65 (I think) Disc's You have the crappy old iron calipers and smaller rotors

 

89 up had better 5 speed trannys i do believe.. world class T5's that are stronger than the borg warner units. so thats a plus

i really wouldnt worry about 5-10 hp differences... that all can be made up with K/N filter and gutted airbox. add headers and exhaust to really help that TPI motor out.

89 is MAF sensor with out the 9th cold start injector so thats nice. MAF is more appreciative of bolt ons than 90+ speed density cars..
89 also has a nice ecm i believe with alot more ability to tune than previous years MAF ecms

but... your gonna have a 9 bolt rear end.. which is hard to find parts for. they do make aftermarket 3.70 gears for it tho. with a 5 speed, that will be perfect. but once u start making some power, the old 9 bolt will have to be ditched for something like a 12 bolt. but thats only if u plan to gain alot of hp someday. a low mileage 9 bolt rear is plenty strong to handle most applications. just sucks that if it blows up, your not gonna have parts to repair it.

10bolt rears are everywhere. and parts plentyful.

 

My 86 has a 6 digit odometer.

 

Serp belt setup also on 88 and newer, 89 and newer is no Cold start injector.

 

If you count the tenth counter than yes, I'm speaking only full mile counters...if it has a 6 full mile counters than its not the factory dash. I had an 87 Iroc it was 5 digit and a .1 digit. Same for the 85 and 86 my friends had.

 

IMHO 1989 was the best year if you get the car with the right options. It will have the nine bolt rear which is pretty strong and with the TA rear cover kit, aluminum drive shaft, good disc brake options which was mentioned above. Dual cats and so on. On the Firebird it was the last year for the radio controls in the steering wheel if you like it. I do.

The later years may not have the above options as they seemed to be dropped as parts ran out. 1989 is also the last year for the nine bolt rear. It is easy enough to change to speed density if you should desire.

 

I agree from my reading, but the problem is its hard to verify miles with a 5 digit Odo.

 

The gauges changed after 85 as far as I know to include a 6th digit. I doubt both my friends gauges and mine were swapped out, but I don't know for sure.

 

I'm 95% sure you're wrong. As I said my 87 and my buddies pre 90 cars were all 5.1 odo's.

 

Both my 89's had a 10 bolt rear w/ drum brakes, from what I was told 89 was the transition year. Some cars built later in the production run got leftovers.

My 86 has a 5 digit odo, my 89's had a 6 digit.

 

I dont think 4wheel discs became standard till 90 or 91 did they?

 

It was my understanding that WS6 cars got rear discs regardless of the year, but late in the run they ran out. Both my 89's had a build date late in January 89

 

86 was the change to the 6 digit speedo on the birds. I don't know much about the camaros though.
My 86 came with the 140mph 6 digit speedo as did my 88 and 90 Formulas.

My 86 Trans Am WS6 had 4wheel disc and my 88 and 90 formulas with the WS6 pacakge had Drum rears.

 

That could be, the only two firebirds I knew of were a 91 and an 84 or 85 model. I know most of the guys I knew had camaro's and they were 5.1 odo's.

 

PWN3D

 

Sorry but what does that mean?

 

It means you were wrong .

 

ahh I got you, like Owned basically...I guess, just spelled really wierd...

 

my 89 camaro irocz L98 has a 5 digit mileage odometer and the .1 slot.

it reads 50K miles but actually is 150K

 

Mine too. Mine says 36,000 but is really 236,000.

 

87 with 6.1 here

 

The 89 and up car stop quite a bit better than the older ones. My car has All Disc Brakes, but they are quite small. It stops fine, however, I was impressed with the newer cars stopping performance, not to mention the 5 or so extra hp from revisions over the years.

 

Yep, the 1989 model got the larger 1LE disc brakes on the rear. These were dropped in later years as I saw a 1992 GTA with drum brakes on the rear. I guess they ran out of the good guy parts and installed what they had.

 

so does my 86..

 

Yea, but they are the crappy ones.

 

Unless you’re road racing you won’t see any difference in braking performance with disks vs drum brakes. Drum will be slightly faster at the dragstrip and cheaper to maintain (you’ll probably replace shoes 1-2x every 100k miles). Beyond that there is no good reason to specifically search out brakes unless you want to run wheels with big, open areas.

Belt systems… I personally don’t mind the pre ’88 setup, I like the fact that you can pretty much remove accessories at will without effecting other stuff. I guess most people like the 88 and up serpentine setup.

Engines, the earlier ones had better heads and in some cases cams, but at this point I’m not sure that it matters, most of what you find will be ready for something new if it isn’t on it’s second or 3rd engine. Not sure that I would worry about the different hp ratings… my ’87 L98 had the lowliest numbers of all the L98’s and ran faster then most, stock. It’s more about how it’s equipped, and outside of the peanut cammed cars the biggest difference in power is the exhaust and intake ducting, and they are the first things people change anyway.

I don’t see the point in arguing over T5’s, they’re all too week. As are all the 10 bolts. The 9 bolts are much stronger, but harder to find parts for. Having owned both I much prefer the 9 bolts, if nothing else the lack of c-clips is a VERY good thing. Auto trannies… the 82-83 are supposedly inferior, with their smaller 27 spline input shaft (not sure I buy that argument, the 200-4r uses the same converter/input and there are a few of them out there running 9’s in grand nationals). The ’86 and up got stronger hard parts, the 88 and up got a better valve body. My $.02, I never had a problem with my ’83 700r4 and for most people the “weak” early ones are fine. They shift better then the later ones with a shift kit. My biggest point here is stay away from the 87’s if you have a choice. Most serious tranny builders will not build up an 87 core, there’s a reason.

My overall $02: buy one that you like the looks of and run with it. I personally do not like the last few years of either the ‘bird or camaro, I don’t like the ’82-84 camaro nose and pretty much the rest I’m cool with… past that it’s all about how it actually got optioned.

 

They seem to work fine..

 

Nah, that's the front brakes doing the stopping. Your rear brakes do almost nothing due to poor design. Notice how the rear pads almost never wear out? A new prop valve and brake flushing should fix that though.

 

Ive locked them up a few times.. - the rears- but ive locked up all 4 also..-.. now about that proportioning valve- any visuals on the install?

 

earlier had better heads/cam? what years are we talking? Center bolt heads and roller cams were a BIG improvement...

 

My 1989 IROC 5 speed said 227'000km's so it's 6 digits . NO more NO less .

1989 was the last year with the cooler steering wheel ...1990 got that stupid airbag.


peeps can;t compare whjat was done to birds vs what was done to comaro's ..... it varies .

Don't worry about the 5-10 hp loss ....you won't notice it anyhow .

As far as brakeing ...the reason why you change pads less in the rear is because that the way it goes ....not because of BAD design the Proportion of fron to rear is usually a 70/30 split . 70 % of your brakeing comes from the front wheels. If you try and change that... you will notice your rear lockngi up easilly . Why? Because under brakeing all weight shifts to the front .

 

you’d be surprised… out of the cars that I race I get less then 10K miles out of a set of rear pads, where shoes last indefinitely. Somewhere I’ve got a pic of one of my cars with heat blued rear rotors after a dragstrip pass (it was a car club event where we could make pretty much as many passes as we wanted, I think I made something like 11 passes back to back)… I really recommend a line lock if you’re doing regular burn outs with rear disks, and for that matter, like I said, rear drums will actually be slightly faster.

 

6SpeedTA95 - The HP shouldn't matter, - your other post(about power upgrades)... Rear discs, especially w/ shimmed prop. valve, don't like heel/toe(brake hold for us stick guys) burnouts. Tends to heat the rear pads and cause them to stick somewhat running down the track. If you intend to run at the track much, install a line lock, disc or drum. I'd agree on the 89 up though. however, I'm not a big fan of the blow bag in the steering wheel...(I know it's a safety thing, but i like my GT wheel...)

 

My 87 with drums pales in comparison against my 89 with discs.
When I bought my 87 I thought there was something wrong with the brakes. $300 dollars worth of parts later it still don't stop good.