I absolutly hate Torx bits. I have a ported base that I want to install, and the bolts on the old intake have eaten 3 Torx sockets with the last one literally welding itself inside the bolt. I'm planning on just grinding the sides of it down and taking it off with a wrench if all else fails. Does anyone have a tip on how to get these intake bolts out? I tried torch heating it but I don't want to get my cylinder heads glowing hot that just seems like a terrible idea to me. Anyways i just needed to rant. And I tell you now, if you ever take your intake off REPLACE THE TORX BITS WITH REGULAR BOLTS! You'll be glad you did later down the road.

 

...Bought me some Grade 8's from Lowe's!!!!

 

yes torx bits are the stupidest things in the world.

I good trick to making life easier is to smack them a couple times with a punch and a hammer before trying to remove them.

 

The Torx system was designed for one purpose. It allows rapid assembly with power tools to a high prevailing torque - Just as high as a hex head, and in many cases, much higher. Fasteners are frequently auto-fed to assembly equipment, and this drive system solved many of the feed and engagement problems other types created.

If you experience difficulty removing them once they are installed, there are a few things to bear in mind before “going gorilla” on them, or any other threaded fastener for that matter.

Heating the head of a steel or steel alloy fastener beyond 800ºF will anneal the material. Once softened, the driver will surely rip out the lobes, and you'll have a real mess on your hands.

The first step is to realize that many of these fasteners were installed into aluminum. Regardless of any phosphate (customary for engine fasteners) or Dacromet/Stalgard coating applied to the bolts (not even normally done with engine fasteners) the galvanic action due to the metallurgy will cause fusing of the threads. Since the factory usually did NOT use anti seize compounds upon assembly, the phenomenon is almost a certainty. As a result, penetrating oil applied WELL BEFORE any attempt at disassembly is paramount. Multiple applications over several days seems to work best.

Once you do decide to disassemble, don't use an inferior driver. The company that made the punches used in the dies when the bolts were headed also makes the drivers, and it used to be that they seemed to be the only ones which fit perfectly - Likely a proprietary / patent thing. Now, in addition to Apex (that company) there are other drivers which fit properly. The best tools are typically the separate driver/insert bit types, rather than the integral type drivers. They always seem to fit better and are much more suitably treated in critical areas. Those drivers which are one-piece are little more than a compromise. The square recess and drive end of the tool needs to be tough, but not hard, since high torque can induce stress risers and cracking at the corners of the recess. Unfortunately, the engagement end of the tool needs to be quite hard to prevent any distortion while driving. Trying to arrive at a correct material and heat treatment to suit both conditions is nearly impossible. However, using a two-piece arrangement allows a tough but softer driver and harder but potentially more brittle bit to engage the fastener. That is how the system NEEDS to work. Premium tool manufacturers recognized this a long time ago, which is why tools like Snap-On, Danaher/Proto, MAC, MATCO, and other professional tools most frequently use the two-piece system for Phillips, Allen, Clutch Head, Torx, and other driver/bit tools. They have been doing that since the 1940's, and the reasons haven’t changed.

Second, and of equal importance, is cleaning out the head recess of all foreign materials so that the driver can fully engage the drive lobes - To full depth. Anything less is asking for trouble. At the very least blow them out with an air hose before trying to fit the bit. If there is embedded grit, rust, sealant, or anything else, clean it out FIRST. Don't wait until you start to strip the drive lobes from the head, or it will be too late.

Third, and also highly important is driver angle. The recess and drive system are designed with about a ± 2º tolerance. That isn't much when you are hand-driving the fasteners. Make absolutely certain the driver is on center and in line with the axis of the fastener - Keep it straight, or pay the price.

Finally, and just as important as the others, using a worn bit will create more problems than a new, proper bit costs. A worn bit is just as bad as one that wasn't made with a proper fit. Once the drive lobes in the fastener recess even begin to cam out, you're done - It's fornicated - You might as well stop right there and solve the driver issue or get out the chisel.

How can I know all this? I worked 18 years for the company (Textron) which designed the system, and held the patents, and was the OEM supplier to every market using them - Automotive, commercial, aerospace, electronics, consumer devices, whatever. The reason you find them in almost any assembly from cars to vacuum cleaners to hard disc drives is because they work as intended, and work very well.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. I had a 2 pc. unit and broke a pair of em off. While not Matco/Snapon/Mac they were new and 2 piece. The first one just flat out broke the second twisted like a licorice stick. Then I took a set of vise grips and broke em loose by grabbing the head (hey, it worked) except on the one I couldn't get to that way I ended up drilling the head out, pulling the intake and then using a set of vise grips on it. While you're talking about the fasteners and design (hey, it makes perfect sense to me why they used em) I can see that one thought was really neglected by the manufacturers; the thought that they may one day years from now be removed.

 

I broke 3 Torx bits off clean, no teeth rounding just a smooth break, 1 craftsman, 2 Stanleys, and a Matco 1/2in drive bit. That sucker's just in there. I'm going to resoak it in good penetrating lube and drive it, then resoak it, then smack it with a punch, then resoak it, then grind the sides off and pull it because I don't think there's anyway to get that last bit out. I'm betting the bit is frozen into the aluminum not into the cylinder head itself. I think I'm going to look into ordering a set of Snap On Torx bit, or Mac; something high quality with a lifetime warranty.

 

I have 8 or 10 broken bits in the corner of my toolbox. Most had lifetime warranties, don't remember where they came from. Hate those things. Snap off everytime on seatbelt bolts seems like. Torx fasteners work great - when they work.

 

So Vader, basically what you're saying is that GM shouldnt have used them.

 

hmm maybe they should have used phillips heads?

 

Philips heads are worse than Torx.

Robertson, on the other hand...

 

Hmmm, I haven't put my TPI back on my new motor yet. I'm thinking maybe I should keep the torx bolts as conversation pieces and use internal allen head bolts or good old hex head bolts instead! So far I've never had one get stuck, but I have heard multiple horror stories from other guys on here. The only ones I've had to undo a lot of times are the alternator bolts every time I have to replace another cheap parts store rebuilt one.

 

 

i keep forgetting text cant convey sarcasm

 

No sarcasm there at all. Try removing a stuck Philips and see how much fun it is.

 

Looking at the torx head bolts, I suspect this was devised to just make a cheaper bolt. While red hot just pluge the torx shaped ram into the stud and form the bolt head. Can't see any real reason why it's better in any way than an allen internal head bolt. I can see how it would be some better at assembly than a hex head bolt though. Sure can do without them though.

 

Ive had FAR more allens round out on me than Torx. Roughly 15:1 ratio. Alot of the problems people have is using the wrong size. Two different sizes work. One is too small and rounds the holes, the other is just right and pulls them out.

 

again, i meant philips heads are much worse than torx and we really shouldnt complain, hex heads would have been fine but some of the bolts, such as those under the runners on the base have fairly tight clearances and a regular sized hex head bolt may be a tight fit, the torx work fine unless they are seized and you use improper tools getting them out

 

I've been a member here for 4 years and close to 1200 posts. Vader you always amaze the heck out of me. Wow....now thats an informative post.


What is worse than regualr torx heads are safety torx heads. If that little pin in the center is cocked a little bit, forget it. I removed 5 of the 6 torx bolts on my fpr yesterday. Of course the 6th was the fudged one and in the hardest place to get to.

I had to use surgical type grips to ever so patiently get 1/8 turn out of the bolt until it was free. Paying for it today with my lower back.

I was able to use a awl and vice grips to push it back into center for the re-install.

 

If only one of us here on TGO worked 18 years for a company that came up with the system. Then we would know.
Now THAT was sarcasm.

Back on topic:
All my torx bolts are now OUT of my engine. I didn't have any major issues, just a few stuborn ones here and there. I can understand why they were used, but I still don't like 'em.