baroner

I have an 87 trans am 305 tpi and i the speedo goes to 140, Does that mean that i have some sort of performance package installed? I heard the stock speedo only goes to 120. It also sais "performance suspension" on the dashpad and im pretty sure that means i have the ws6 option.

StreetRoc85 350

if it says "performance suspension" on the dash then i think its a ws6. and also i believe all TPI cars came with 140mph speedos. i could be wrong here though...

the ws6 is mostly suspension stuff and graphics. i do know that no TPI engine performance package was ever offered. if you wanted performance, you got TPI , that WAS the performance package. i dont think they ever made any "special" TPIs. at least not for the LB9s...

baroner

thanks, Ive never driven a tbi engine, i know that the tpi's are faster but is it really a big difference or just a little more low-end torque?

ewwewwnotme

Well my step dad has a TBI and I have a TPI and theres a 50 hp difference. There is also a 2 year difference but I dont think that makes much of a difference.

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Performance Suspension doesn't mean WS6 suspension. You could still have the "lower grade" suspension.

If your car is TPI with the 140mph guage, I would suspect you have the WS6 option, though. Check your RPO codes, etc.

335_GTA

Well either you dash or you engine is not the stock one .

B/c the 140mph gauge was only for the 350's and the 305 got the 120.

So either your car was a 350. Or your gague cluster was changed.

I would get your VIN# then look at if it was a 350 if so what answers it but if it was a 305 for the factory then your gauge cluster has been changed.

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

That isn't correct either.
For reference, my bone stock GTA 305 5-Speed has the 140 guage cluster.

335_GTA

Well then yours had to be changed b/c you can check on gtasourcepage.com

im 99% positive that they never made a 305 with a 140mph gauge.

But I could be wrong so im not just gonna say that is the truth.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

here we go again! tpi cars 305-350 all got the 140 mph cluster! the only other model that got the 140 was the 3.8 turbo

tbi got the 120 mph, carb got 85 mph (can't recall the l69 one though that may have gotten a higher mph cluster)

If gta source says other wise thats too bad they are telling people a lie.

335_GTA

[quote=88 350 tpi formula;3225155]

here we go again! tpi cars 305-350 all got the 140 mph cluster! the only other model that got the 140 was the 3.8 turbo



That is is crap because the 305's got the 120 gauge cluster.

Just to prove it I have a 91 gta sittin in my garage now with a 305 TPI and with a 120 gauge cluster, And I know nothing was ever changed on the car because it was bought new in 1991.

I also have a 89 GTA 350 tpi with a 140 gauge.

Im telling you the 305's for sure came with the 120. Im 99% positive.

And how would the people from gtasourcepage.com be wrong????

They get everything strait from GM?? UNLESS OF COURSE GM IS WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT??? That could be the case?

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

so YOU bought this car new ????? and since you have this one car you think all 305 cars got a 140 mph cluster???
I never said 305 did not get a 120 mph just not the the tpi 305... maybe your gta was another left over parts car they shoved out the door in the end???? like the drum rear gta's

please tell me where gta source said that! I was looking and did not find it. as I was going to ask for a clarification on it

GM does not go to that web page and tell them this stuff. maybe they get a chance to ask a few questions here and there but that about it.

but hey I only have years and years of these thirdgens under my belt

funny how YOU know..... are you going to tell me next only the 350 and 5-speed tpi cars got the higher tach???

335_GTA

YES 305 TPI CARS DID GET A 120MPH GAUGE.

AND SINCE YOU NO SO MUCH ABOUT 3RD GEN YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS

Im telling you now 305 tpi cars came with a 120mph gauge!

we will just have to wait for another member to get in here and see what they have to say.

And also considering my car was one of the first 91 GTA's made I dont think they would have just slaped it together and shoved it out the door??

I mean either of us could be wrong but we just have to wait and see?
----------
Also do you have your VIN# handy??

just check your 8th digit look for either the "F" (5.0L) or "8" (5.7L) And see what yours says you never no it just might say 8??

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

maybe you are right that your car or at least the later ones got a 120 mph 305 and tpi but I KNOW the 305 tpi cars did infact come with a 140 mph cluster plain and simple. what I mean by spare parts was the last thirdgens 91-92 got strange items installed like spare parts or left over parts. I even have sales flyers and mag. with 305 cars and a 140 mph cluster. still though get me a link so I can ask the gta source page. that's all I ask


BTW not to make you mad but the dealer could have swapped the cluster on you. they were known for and still are to a point for swapping radios and clusters rims and so on.

Boosted_SS

i can tell you from have tbi and tpi on the SAME motor tpi make a big differance!

91 Formula

iTrader: (1)

Ok guys, I bought my 91 Formula ws6 305 TPI brand new in 91 with 22 miles on it. The gauge cluster is a 140mph, but I forgot to tell you this is only on the 1LE packages. ONLY 46 made in production in 91

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Sorry dude. You need to do some more research before spouting off nonsense. Recheck the gtasourcepage (your reference source). They specifically say the GTA came with the 140mph guage cluster...

Edit: Of course, my 305 is the 5-Speed version with dual cats, 4-wheel disc brakes and the 3.45 gear, etc. Similar to 91 Formula having the 1LE package. I have seen many 305 TPIs with the 120mph guage cluster. Some 305s did, however, come with the 140. There were even test drive formula cars in mags back in the day that had the 140 gauge cluster. Hmmm, if memory serves me right, the car I'm thinking of had the 5-speed and put in better times than the 350 cars. If I have time, I'll dig it up.

tenpin842

HAHA...this is funny!! I have a 140 speedo in my 87 305 TPI So if you think 305's only came with a 120.....your wrong. And I have a Trans Am....not a GTA.

335_GTA

No i was just telling you that you said ALL 305/350 TPI'S CAME WITH A 140.

And yes you said that. that is what i was talking about.

B/c that is

335_GTA

I was wondering I have a 305 tpi with a 120 gauge?

im haveing my 3.73's put in i know this will throw my speedo off and i will have to have it fixed by like a dealer or something of that sort.

But could i put a 140 speedo in and the higher tach in my cluster and then have a dealer just reprogram it to work with that when i have the do it for the gears?

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Don't freak out, dude.

You're the one on here giving absolutes about the 305 and the guage package.

Some 305 cars did indeed come with the 140mph guage cluster.
Take it for what its worth...

AS for the original poster who's thread got hijacked, it appears he has the Level III suspension, otherwise known as the WS6,... if he has the 140 guage, the TPI, etc.

tenpin842

I can take a picture tonight if you want. My car is sleeping for the winter. But I know 100% thats my 1987 305 TPI Pontiac Trans AM, has a 140 speedo. And the tach stops at 6000rpms. I think some had a different tach that redlined at 6500. Or maybe they start to red line at a different RPM. Im not sure, but I know some tachs are different though.

D's89IROCZ

NONE of the tachs redlined at 6000 rpm ...let alone 6500. They may go that high ...but the redline is not that high ...especially seeing how they make their power to about 5000 rpm ( 305) and 4800( 350)

I have a 1989 305 TPI 5 speed... it redlined at 5500 ( 5 speeds redlined 500 rpm higher than auto's )

I also have the 180 km/h speedo ( 120 mph) . I never seen a 140 mph in a 305 ....but I guess some of you have them. Maybe that was just a Trans AM option then ????

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

My tach goes up to 8000 as well on my 305 5-speed with a 5500 rpm redline.
I believe my automatic 350 GTA has the 8000 rpm tach as well. Don't recall the redline. I think 5000 actually, but not sure.

Doesn't matter. I'm planning to take it out and install a Turbo Trans Am guage in it so I can have some stealth boost.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

my old 88 formula 305 tpi auto had the 140 , my 88 305 tpi 5-speed formula had a 140 but had the higher tach, the junker old 87 305 5-speed formula had a 140 and high tach, my very good friend with his 88 GTA 305 tpi had the 140, another two close friends with the 86 TAs both had 140 and tpi auto 305's the list goes on and on.

I looked around at pictures of 305 tpi cars and they all had 140 mph.

January 1988 "HOT ROD" shows a formula 305 tpi with you know it a 140 speedo---- BTW with the 5-speed/ 3.45 rear ran 15.07 @ 93.4mph which is in the range of the 1988 350 tpi auto cars

I'm not going to say the 120 is not possiable but as far as the pontiacs go the 140 sure seems common

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/myws6for...803613846460/5

if you zoom in it's 6500 rpm red 5500 yellow

Andy 91GTA

iTrader: (2)

My 92 GTA with a 350 has a 140 mph speedo while my 91 GTA with a 305 has a 190 km speedo. I know of a 91 GTA with a 305 5 speed with a 220 km speedo (140 mph). The reason why this one has a 220 speedo is because it had the performance enhancement group option, ie, dual cats, rear disc brakes, etc.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

In 85 The TPI cars had the highest reving V8's. In 86 they lost 25HP due to a cam change - but tourque increased slightly.

source: https://www.thirdgen.org/1986-chevy-camaro

Here's a tach from an 85 GTA Automatic with TPI. 5500 Yellow and 6000 Redline: ( it used a mech 85 speedo )


smithtc: You might want to verify that your "8000RPM" tach isn't a V6 tach. If you remove the outer trim and read the bottom of that Tach. My $$ says it will read "6 Cylinder" on it's face.

D's89IROCZ Why would 2 cars using the same motor ( and thereby camshaft ) have a different RPM redline. Same cam - same redline. 3 speed auto, 700R4, T56,..... No matter the tranny; if it's bolted to a LG4 than the yellow is 4400.

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Why should I respond to this stupidity?

There were no GTAs in 85.
I have an 85 TA that has the 85mph speedometer
I have two 89 GTAs with the 140mph speedometer & 8000 rpm tach. One is 305, one is 350.
I have an 89 V6 Turbo TA Gauge Cluster with 140mph on it that has a 6000 rpm tach.

All stock...from the factory...standard equipment for those cars.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Since your reply was nothing short of rude -- You shouldn't have replied at all. A little edicate goes a long way.

It was a typo dude ( TA not GTA ); no need to be ignorant.


My post was intended to show that a 6000RPM redline tach does in fact exist. The rest was questioning what I had read earlier in the thread. I'm not a Firebird expert and don't pretend to be. Since you apparently are the Firebird expert you should have seen the pic I posted and recognized it as an 85 style Tach. Pointing out the Typo was cool; calling me stupid was offensive.

OK---------------> I learned that some V8 clusters go to 8K.


That Turbo TA gauge cluster is from a V6 right ? & Your planning on installing it in your V8 ?? I guess since you couldn't recall your existing tach readings a few posts ago it will not matter that the V6 tach will not show the right readings for your V8 anyway........

Fake gauges that show the wrong readings;


For the original poster -----
Source: https://www.thirdgen.org/1987-pontiac-firebird

thirdgen88

I zoomed in on that photo, I see a 5000-5500 yellow zone, and red from 5500-on.. Plus, I've got that same tach, and that's the way mine is...

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Fella...
I wasn't calling out your misquote...just stating a fact.
You are using quotes that aren't mine.
You really need to get your facts straight.
People have skills of building guage clusters...the V6 tach and boost gauge can be made to work. Others have done so. It's not rocket science. Some actually build stuff instead of bolting on things from the assembly line.

Moving on.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Yes: Some people have skills,...... And some just think they do.

Since the only "fact" I produced was that the Firebird came with a 6000RPM tach I wonder what ones you think I should "Get Straight".

I never said the quotes were yours......... But since this one is:

Your cars are "bone stock" - Are you talking to the mirror ?? Your not even close to being in my league. Here's the Tachometer conversion..............Not installed to make the tach look cool - but because a true driver actually knows and uses it.



Seems like you bought your way into your Birds. Since you have "moved on",...... feel free to come back when you learn how to turn a wrench.

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Still don't have your facts straight.
If you want to take this to a more personal level, send me a PM. You won't find me slinging attacks.

Some "true drivers" will state you don't need a tach. Waste of space.

Later

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Like 'Joey D' had to tell you :

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

If that's in reference to the guy selling a firebird trying to rip people off... is that what you do?

What is this...last lick? lol

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

What are you doing? Reading all of my old posts to dig up whatever dirt you can find?

That's pretty funny, and sorta childish. Don't you think?
Can you bring anything meaningful to a conversation?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I did a search for GTA and was not surprised to find that I'm not alone in thinking that you're ignorant.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Wow, this topic sure took a turn. But to your original post, baroner, I'll add my

First, on the official "1987 Car Order Worksheet," the WS6 option is called "Special Performance Package." And if you have it, on the passenger side of the dash, you should have a badge that says "Performance Suspension," and you say you do. Another way to confirm this, the RPO code WS6 should be on your SPID label(if it's still in place). In 1987 birds, the label was located inside the center console storage compartment.

Second, YES, 305 TPIs could receive the 140mph speedo, and anyone who says otherwise should find more reliable sources of information. I can't confirm if merely having the TPI engine got you that speedo or not though. I believe getting it was a result of having a combination of performance options, including TPI. My own '87 Formula has ALL the performance options and does have the 140mph speedo as well. So to figure out which combination of options were necessary, if anything other than just TPI, would be difficult to figure out. And the "Worksheet" doesn't get into it that deeply either. But you have that speedo too, so whatever was necessary to get it, you obviously have it. It's legit, period... exclamation mark!

And third, addressing the redline, my car is a 305 TPI/5-speed, 3.45 posi/disc rearend, WS6, and its tach yellows at 5000, reds at 5500, and goes up to 8000.

Nearly everything about my car is still factory, it was special ordered by me(because I wanted ALL the performance options AND the 5-speed), I'm its original owner(obviously), and I've been its only driver, so I know nothing's been changed throughout the years.

I really hated to have to say all that, but it seemed necessary to let there be no doubt... Baroner, your car is legit. So I hope this clears up whatever confusion might've developed throughout the posts in this topic.

WhiteKnight

I'm still wondering if the digital dash in my gta actually goes all the way up to 199mph. I know if I have it set for km/h it gets up to 199 then starts blinking. Too bad my car will never make it up to 199mph

rgarcia63

My 1988 IROC-Z RPO sticker matches with the VIN number and the codes show I have:
Z28 - Merchandized PKG, Special Performance
L98 - 5.7 Liter V8 TPI Engine
B2L - Performance Pakage, Engine Package 5.7L PFI (port fuel Injection)
MD8 - Transmission, Auto 4 SPD, THM 700R4
MXO - Merchandized, Trans, Auto Provisions, O/D
JG1 - Shaft, Prop, Aluminum
GH3 - Axle Rear, 2.77 Ratio
J65 - Brake System, PWR, FRT, RR Disc
G80 - Axle positraction, limited slip

The Speedometer is 140mph and the tachometer redline range is 5500 - 7000rpm, does this mean I have a Tach from a 5-speed stick?

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

If you had read the previous posts carefully where it was clear, I thought, that indeed there was 140mph speedometers with an 8000rpm tach on some 305 cars...there would not have been any need, in my opinion, to make this comment. Why you called me out versus others, I can only question.

As I already mentioned, I was not calling out your "typo". In effect it was irrelevant...except that if one says GTAs had the 140mph guage, then this wouldn't apply to the 85.

I never debated the 6000rpm redline.
If you're quoting someone else to use against me in the above statement...that isn't cool, either.
Again, I wasn't pointing out any typo.
Yes, I may have been offensive...but, I felt offended by your act of attacking my integrity while "putting money on it". But I chose to at least state the facts of what I have that are possible factory provisions.

Again, you have misquoted me as far as any existing tach readings...if I interpret that correctly. I mentioned using this guage cluster for the boost. I would rather have the boost gauge in a stock appearing fashion than the 8000rpm tach. Anyway.
Additionally, further down you seem to have knowledge of converting tachs...then why make a comment as to incorrect readings. If you were just trying to give me a heads up, cool.

Maybe you aren't really trying to help at all.

Interesting. I think this statement speaks for itself.
You misquote, etc. then throw out blind accusations with no knowledge of whatever the hell your talking about, etc.
Whatever dude.


Interesting that you bring that guy into this. Birds of a feather flock together, I guess. It is a Buyer Beware market...but maybe you'd rather people get ripped off for a buck. I could be wrong and you just pulled that off the net without knowing the facts of the situation. Consistent theme, I think.

Now you're just full of ....

I feel sorry for ya dude. Hope the winter fever breaks soon up there so you can get back out into the fresh air.
Later...say what you want, but I'm done here.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Now, That's funny..... I really am laughing out loud at you right now ! The fact that you put so much effort into this is a riot !

My ONLY comment to you in my original post was questioning an 8000 tach in your V8 - NOTHING more. As a result you've called me stupid, childish, a liar, and a rip off.



The 6000 red line tach had nothing to do with you, and neither did my question to D's89IROCZ. If you felt offended than it's the result of your own twisted thoughts. Remember,... In my original post the only statement I directed at you said "you might want to check". No matter how hard I try - I still can't understand how that could EVER offend anyone.



Wrong Tach readings; the Turbo gauges shows yellow at 47 and red at 53 ( or so ) Does that match your existing engine......? You brought up the conversion and I gladly pointed out that I have already completed it. Like I said - not even in my league.


P.S. Your right - I did misquote you...

"bone stock" should have been "All stock...from the factory"

DAVEY420

I have a question, why is the 85 TA tach yellow up to 6000rpm. I thought all tpi's either had red at 5000 or 5500 depending on the cam/year. I have an 85 and it redlines at 5500 on the tach. Just wondering why they did that?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Good Question;



Being more of a Camaro guy I always thought that 55k was the limit on all the 85's. I can remember reading the "Camaro Technical Database" when it was on the 'Osterlan.com' site years back and setting out to find a Camaro tach with 5500 Redline for a project at that time.

I never knew the 85 Bird Tach redlined at 6000 until I picked up that TA about a year ago.

Even now the current version of the tech section still reports just 2 cams.

Possibly just eye candy...... Does anyone know for sure ?? I've been curious about that for about a year now !!!