Blackride

Hello all,

I am looking to get a third gen camaro Z. The years I am looking for are 88-92. My big question is should I ONLY look at 350's or should is there even a reason to consider the 305? I am very new to car performance and repairs so any newbie help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Subnoizebro

Well i am not sure how correct i am but i think the 350's came in automatic trans only and the 305 came in manual. I might be wrong so dont jump the gun, but i have a 1987 z28 305 5 speed and the nieghbor across the street has an automatic 1991 RS with the 350. Now remember i might be wrong. I heard that GM didnt want to put a 350 in with a manual tranny becuase of power issues and having young kids burning up the clutch under warranty (IN THE 80's OF COURSE) and GM would have to fix them. I dont know though, just wait tio see what else people reply with.

Mudweiser_Matt

I read that they didn't put any 5-speed's on 350 due to body flex. So yeah i think your right, only 305's can STOCK w/ 5-speed's.

Jeremy Z28

iTrader: (5)

He's right. The 350 cars only came in auto trans. The 305 could be had as an auto OR manual. Be careful with sellers that "claim" the car is a 5 spd manual with a 350 engine. They did not come from the factory that way. The only way it was possible to have that combo is to convert the trans over to a 5 spd, or to swap out the 305 for a 350. Honestly, there are a few reasons/rumors why GM did not have the stick shift and 350 combo in these cars, but that's another argument.

If you are new to technical car stuff, I would avoid any cars that seller's claim are "350 and 5 spd manual combo", because more than likely there is some type of funny business that went on with the car previously.

Obviously it is a good choice to opt for the 350 engine, but if you happen to find an extremely clean car, or one that is very appealing to the eye (just the color you wanted), don't turn it down because of the 305. As time goes on, if you read up on the forums frequently enough anything is possible, and the 305 can be tossed out later and replaced with whatever motor you desire. The 305 TPI is still a very quick motor and is fun right out of the box, and if you're not looking for a record setter it's plenty of a motor and can be modified just as anything else.

Z2EIGHT

If its your first one, I would say look for a real cheap starter Camaro with a 305. That way you can learn about the car and if your don't like it, you didn't blow lots of money for 350 camaro. If you want some more power, you can get la junkyard 350 for under $500, and swap it in...

-Peace

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Subnoizebro: FYI, your neighbor's RS didn't come stock with a 350. Only 87-90 Irocs, and 91-92 Z28's had 350's as an option. Actually, I "think" a B4C/Police RS could have the 350, but I'm not sure on that.

Pretty much everything else is accurate. No 350/5 speeds ever. The 305's could have either. I've heard SO many stories as to why the T5 wasn't used with 350's, but the most common seems to be case flex. When the trans case flexes, the teeth on the gears aren't fully engaged, thus putting them under extra stress, and ultimately failure.

In my opinion, a trans swap is easier than an engine swap, but if you have the know-how, either one is fairly straight forward. It all depends what you know, and what you can do.

If you DO go 305, go TPI. It makes a multi-port EFI 350 swap SO much easier than if you had a carb or TBI 305.

Again, JM2C

Subnoizebro

Not to call you a liar or fight about it, but i asked him about when i saw him, he said he bought it BRAND NEW from the chevy dealer ship. 1991 RS with a 350 and a automatic. He even showed me the invoice.

Blackride

Thanks for everones help. This helps me understnad the whole situtation a lot better! I keep seeing 305's that are the perfect color and style I want and I pass them up because some people say that the 305 TPI was junk, but I should have came here first

Subnoizebro

haha yeah the 305 TPI isnt junk at all. The one under my hood has over 175,000 miles on it and runs like it was new

Jeremy Z28

iTrader: (5)

The only 3rd gen Camaro RS that ever came with a 350 engine from the factory was the B4C package. Other than that, No 3rd gen Rally Sport ever came with a 5.7L stock. Read the tech data for yourself: https://www.thirdgen.org/1991-chevy-camaro

Subnoizebro

So your saying what i saw was a lie? Dude ill scan and send you the damn invoice or whatever if you dont beleive me... I am done posting here if your just going to say im wrong when i know what i saw.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Subnoizebro,

In your first post, you mentioned you weren't sure, and "not to jump the gun". Hey, that's cool, no harm no foul. I was just pointing out a little Thirdgen history.

No one is calling anyone out, or talking junk, or calling anyone a liar. I have NO IDEA what you did or didn't see. All I'm saying is that there was never a RS with a 350, not counting the B4C RPO for the police cars. Your neighbor may very well have a B4C car. I "think" they were able to be bought by anyone. Not sure.

....and last but not least, although I'm willing to bet the farm against this, anything is possible. PLEASE DO scan in the document. It's REAL easy to find out what the deal is on the car. You have to understand with these cars getting older, there's not many "secret" or "special" cars out there. Just about all the details are known. People post up all the time with non-existant combinations, swearing they're out there, only to have the facts come out that they don't actual have what they thought. But hey, every now and then things DO turn out to be legit.

Subnoizebro

Yeah for sure, it sounded like he didnt beleive me. I will ask him when i get home from my gfs ill ask him if i can scan it. Ya never know, it could be a typo or something. Ill scan it as soon as i can if he'll let me. No hard feelings.

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

I'd like to see that scan.

Jeremy Z28

iTrader: (5)

I never said you were lieing to me. As Abucaca said, I was just pointing out some Third Gen history. I didn't write it, and I am just stating facts.

I live in Orange also, I am curious see that car you speak of.

LXS

I've also talked to someone who swore up and down that they knew someone that had a 350 with a 5 speed from the factory. This was years ago, but I'm pretty sure that person was just talking outta his ***, but like what was mentioned a lil while ago, you never know what may or may not have popped outta the dealer's door!

Subnoizebro

Ok he said he doesnt want his invoice to be scanned becuz its on the internet. But he said im welcome to take pictures under niether the hood and all around his car... So its that or nothing, sorry guys:-\

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The myth is Busted once again.

Blackride

I think my post went a bit off topic .....lol

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

....sorry 'bout that!!!! ....you seemed satisfied though, so we figured you signed off and we ran amuck with your thread!!!!!

Subnoize: Check the Vin. I know for '89 the 8th digit being "8" meant you had the 350. I'd imagine that didn't change for the 1991 cars. If it's NOT an eight, then it's not a 350. If it IS an 8, then of course, does it have RS or Z28 badges? Does it have a standard hood and spoiler or hood blisters and the hi- rise spoiler? If you check those few things, and it STILL looks like a RS with a 350, then we'll need to discuss it further.

Subnoizebro

Ill take a pic of the vin and the whole car, it does have RS badging though.

Fast92RS

iTrader: (2)

Id like to see those pics as well. I didnt think it was possible for a civillian to buy a B4C car unless it was a LE agancy or government contract.

LXS

fireball451

Got a friend who purchased a '91 B4C new from a dealership.
He got lucky after a deal with a Law Enforcement agency fell through.
Only RS 350 cars out there are B4C.
I have seen alot of RS cars with Z28 badges.
But, somebody had swapped them out.
Probably why the well has run dry for '91-92 Z28 badges.
(thanks alot to those that have done this, I NEED some!)


Back to the original topic:
I say go for a 305 with 5 speed.(especially a G92 package car)
Seems to be a very hard combination to find and every one that I have had runs like a freak!

bonz

Im not sure about Camaros but 89 was the only year you could get T-tops with a 350 on firebirds if thats something your looking for.
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Mods. GMPP Vortec heads, Comp Cams XR269HR, Crane Gold Rockers, Hooker headers, SDPC intake manifold, free flow exhaust, Air Foil, De-screened MAF, TB Bypass, K&N filter, MSD Coil. To be installed, BBK AFPR, Edelbrock runners, SFC.

Casem1

I didn't think there was any mystery as to why there were only 305's with a 5 speed, the tranny was rated to 300 ft/lb max. Later, the World Class tranny's were rated to 330 ft/lb max. The 350 made too much torque. It is all about business, GM isn't going to run more motor than their tranny can handle because the bill for warranty claims will be too high.

Anyway, remember that you can get a 305 with an auto as well, so don't let that confuse you.

Casem1

My advice is to buy the best condition car with minimal work required in your price range and don't worry about the 305/350 thing. If you are in the market for aftermarket heads, then the 350 has many more options since a 305 can't run larger intake valves due to the bore size.

irocgta

iTrader: (3)

Yeap you are correct, only 305's came with the manual transmissons. No such animal,,, a manual with a 350 unless you it made the swap yourself....

MARO-MAN

I didn't think there was a problem getting T-tops with a 350? My buddy has a '87 Iroc 350 with T-tops, so I doubt Camaros are subject to what your talking about.
I wouldn't worry about 350 or 305, just make sure you start with a TPI motor at least. My 305 is a blast to drive and its because of the TPI and G92 rear. If I could change one thing, I would put a 5 speed in it. -Nick

rockit

iTrader: (3)

wow 15 years at least since these cars were even made, 5 years since the last camaro was offered, and people still arguing about this. awesome.

MARO-MAN

I am sure 15 years from now people will still be arguing about it. Nothing is better then a good third gen talk!!

irocgta

iTrader: (3)

People may have laughed at the idea that a 55 or 57 chevy would be a future highly sought after car. Especially if you had one in the 50's or 60's and later sold yours for a few hundred dollars, hell the same could be said for the late 67 Camaro or Firebirds. In my opinon these third gen cars will be worth a mint (through the roof) come 10 or 15 years from now,,,, those of you who laugh today will certainly cry tomorrow. Food for thought...........Iroc

Subnoizebro

though i wish that were true but the 3rd gen camaros had a high production number and are all to common. I mean id LOVE for my 3rd gen to become a classic i just dont see it happening. its like the 5.0 mustang, just another off beat pony car.

fireball451

I tend to agree.
Breaks my heart to see one parted out and it not be a totaled car.
These cars are getting harder to find.
Especially in any kind of decent shape.
TPI 5-speeds being the hardest over all.

irocgta

iTrader: (3)

Not so my friend remember that back in the 80's more Iroc and Trans am 's met an early demiss from young teens pushing these machines to their limits and beyond,,,although true they were a dime a dozen not the case today and with time more will meet their fate. Mark my words this will be the case in the near future..............

TPI

I for one didnt like the tone of that post..

and for someone who has failed to prove otherwise, well
just irritates me even more. So the magical invoice you happen to see cant be shown on the internet?

and another thing, Plasma does NOT represent this site,
so for him to persuade you to post somewhere else is
completley ridiculous.. but I welcome it with an attitude
like that .. I bet Im not the only one offended by that
flame on our website..

Regardless, Abubaca is correct.. unless I see a B4C
or a scanned "8" in his VIN.

Subnoizebro

Ok I take it you were trying to act all hard and be some tough guy... well guess what? I dont care who you are or what you beleive. You can kiss my *** if you dont believe me. I think its complete BS that you think I'd make all this up, what motive would I have on lying about something this dumb. If you dont like the tone of that post than dont bother reading any of my other posts. Ok? Sounds good to me.

TPI

Im sorry, I dont feel I should be "tip-toeing" around
your ignorance.. You had it right the first time, go find
somewhere else to post if your not happy here

But, for someone with under 30 posts, you sure are mouthy.

Try contributing to the site before demanding respect..

..This thread is done

Subnoizebro

Dude seriously, just shut your mouth. Your just a damn follower trying to impress people by trying to act hard on the net bro. Just stop before you make yourself look more retarded

TPI

Follower? a real wiseguy..
However, you've only proven your stupidity

If I were you Id run along and get a scanned
document or some shots of that VIN..

I think most of us would like that..I refuse
to have a pissing match with a greenhorn.

I dont impress people buddy, my car does that.

rocluvr0013

As stated previously If you want a manual trans look for a 305 (tpi preferably).

AFAIK no 350 TBI cars came from the factory that way so be leery of this.

Otherwise either one would be a fun car with potential.
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Hadnt that already been dealt with?

wgripp

iTrader: (1)

IMHO, my 350 TPI doesn't make enough power for me. Don't get me wrong, it's loads of fun. But, I NEED MORE HP!

I cant imagine having a 305. If the manual/auto tranny is not an issue, I'd go for the 350. As far as collectability/resale values goes, cars that had the higher hp motors are usually worth more to resell. In the case of our cars, its normally not that much tho.

However, like anything else, you can always throw $$$ at a 305 to make it faster.

Hope this helps!
Bill

Subnoizebro

Ok BUDDY, take your wannabe street rod that your daddy help you pay for and shove it. How have i proven my stupidity? Becuase i say my neighbor has a 1991 350 automatic RS? You are quite a ignorant guy to just come to conclusions and think im a liar. I am done posting back to you after this, your not worth. I will be taking pictures of his car tomorrow by the way, and if i can get em uploaded prepared to be shocked.

Firebird_Nerd

i second that hahahaha. i have 305 tpi also 90 firebird and it seems like a pretty good engine if i could just get the kinks out.

iroc88lb9

iTrader: (1)

its your damn ignorance,and your own fault,that your looking like the ignorant fool in this thread.

plain and simple,zero 350 5 spd combos were built
plain and simple,zero RS 350's were made,unless it was a B4C.

instead of arguing over what you SAW...ever thought about vin fraud? its in plain sight what was available,and what wasnt...these cars are almost all 20 years old,or not far from it,dont you THINK in the last 10 years or so,another one would have turned up? please,get off your highhorse,show some proof of what you claim,or let it go and get on with your life.

Subnoizebro

Ok once again why would i lie? I am sick of how you thiunk i would lie about something so stupid. I will get the picture and prove to you that your an ignorant fool.

Subnoizebro

Are you kidding me. You are being stupid. Until you see what i saw you should shut your mouth. Why is it so hard to believe a 91 RS has a 350 in it? To be perfectly clear, you need to stop posting on **** you obviously dont know about. Now i understand that only the police RSs had a 350, but i know what i saw, i am taking pictures of his car tomorrow so everyone who doesnt beleive me, if you could just shut the hell up for 2 seconds ill pst them as soon as i get em. Thank you.

ZROLimitRacing

ok how about this, everybody shut the hell up and just wait until the pics come in. now you say the guy next door has a RS with a 350, he very well could, the best 2 ways to tell is the number 8 in the vin and the rpo codes. just open the glove box and look at the codes, if you see B4C on the list then that proves what it is, a RS with a 350. till then everybody should just shut up......... thank you.

TPI

I find it lovely you attack me personally, not knowing a thing.

and yet, Ive not said one derogatory thing to you, Other
than simply stating that .. If your going to threathen us
to leave this website, your better off not being here in
the first place..

Screw the car, that's not the point. but yea, the pictures
would be nice, for we all would like to know if its legit or not..

Not that I care bout your comments, Id thought Id
add.. it's pretty hard getting parental assistance for
a car when Im serving IN THE NAVY.

Have a nice day sucker

ZROLimitRacing

ok TPI just let it go man sheesh, im in the army and that doesnt mean that i havent had my dad help me out with the car when im strapped for cash, but thats not the point. just let him get the pics in, until then nobody cares about any ignorice..........thank you.