Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I know it is not the O2 sensor because I just had it checked and it was operating at 13.3 and it is supposed to be in between 13 and 14. Any help would be great because I am getting crap for mpg.

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As the great Al Bundy once said.
"Hooter, Hooters yum, yum, yum, Hooters, Hooters on a girl that's dumb."

92TRANSAMWS6

according to the book i have its caused by either bad airfilter/fuel in charcoal canister or crankcase/bad injector/high fuel pressure/bad TPS/bad MAP/bad o2 sensor/bad ECM. hope that helps

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92 Trans Am/WS6/Blue/305/5Speed/T-Tops
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69 Camaro/427-currently awaiting restoration

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Ok I am going to try and rule some of these out to help me. I have a K&N in there that was cleaned recently so that cant be it. Like I said the O2 sensor in new so that is out. I am putting an AFPR in there asap so I will see if that is it. Now can I open the charcoal canister and see if there is fuel in there?? As far as the MAP is concerned I thought that TPI's didnt have one. And how can I check the ECM and TPS to see if they are bad?

92TRANSAMWS6

speed density TPI uses a MAP sensor. I dont believe the canister can be open (may be wrong though) should be able to take it out and listen for fuel moving around in it. You have to check the TPS output voltage. Find a scan tool its a lot easier. hope this helps.

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92 Trans Am/WS6/Blue/305/5Speed/T-Tops
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69 Camaro/427-currently awaiting restoration

BubbasIroc

the ecm you will have to remove it and have it tested they can test them at most auto parts places...most of them will test it for you free of charge

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

"I know it is not the O2 sensor because I just had it checked and it was operating at 13.3 and it is
supposed to be in between 13 and 14. Any help would be great because I am getting crap for mpg."


Uhhh perhaps I should explain how an O2 sensor works. There is no set voltage that its supposed to be in between to determine whether it is good or not. The range of an o2 sensor is O to 1 volt only. Its voltage varies with the content of fuel in the exhaust, the more fuel in the exhaust the more voltage it generates. The ideal part throttle (not flooring it) mixture generates a voltage of .4 or 4 milivolts from the o2 sensor. Your ecm is constantly trying to maintain that voltage at part throttle. So say the O2 sensor is reading above .4 the ecm will lean out its fuel mixture until .4 is reached. The opposite is true aswell, if its under .4 it will richen things up till it hits .4. When O2 sensors get old or fouled they first of all are slow to react to changes, and secondly dont produce as much voltage. So, if your o2 sensor is bad, or fouled, it will continually read lower than it really is and your ECM will be continually richening your mixture (more gasoline= more gas consumption). There is no real way to test an oxygen sensor unless you are familiar with its function, and if you are youll notice it getting "Lazy" or slow to react using O2 monitoring equipment. As a general rule of thumb, you should always replace your oxygen sensor every 30k miles or along with every tuneup. As cars get older and burn more oil they tend to foul O2 sensors more quickly FYI.
In conclusion.. Who ever "Checked" your o2 sensor ripped you off because " it was operating at 13.3 and it is
supposed to be in between 13 and 14" is nonsense

Ill have to go check what that code is to give you any advice, next post

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

are you getting any other codes besides that?
change the o2 sensor if you havent.. but it could likely be something else. The code is o2 sensor rich and since you are getting crap for mileage im inclined to think that it actually is rich.
https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/f...gen.shtml#misc

look there, for your future reference.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I didnt just go and have that checked I went and got emissions tested to see if I would pass and that was one of the things they checked. And that was what he told me was it was working properly. But I may just go ahead and check the O2 sensor b pulling it out and replacing it. Thanks Pablo

8Mike9

YaRegarding the O2 sensor....I had thought they mesured Oxygen content...not fuel content...this is an important thing to keep in mind when troubleshooting the system.

An extremley rich mixture can cause false O2 readings...actually causing the sensor to read a lean condition...i/e low mv's...your car will sit there stinking up the garage and if the O2 sensor gets saturated with unburnt fuel, it reads lean because there is not enough O2 to measure..O2 sensor starts diving down in the mv's, feeds it back to the ECM and the ECM compensates the low O2 reading with opening up the injectors and dumping more fuel in the motor.

I'd suspect the numbers of "between 13 and 14" you're referring to would be the air/fuel ratio as reported by the smog check?

If so, seems things are okay...closer to 14:1 would be better for fuel milage..so you *may* still be running slightly rich.

What kinda milage do you get on the highway and what do you get in the city?

><>><<><><><><


Just noticed that you are running 13.3:1 AF ratio...I had thought you meant it was going inbetween 13 and 14...so yes, you're running rich...

[This message has been edited by 8Mike9 (edited September 13, 2000).]

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

well, i said fuel , because if you just hold an o2 sensor in free air it generates no voltage whatsoever ... i remember seeing an explanation of how it works but cant remember it all at the moment. At any rate, the voltage increases as the fuel in the exhaust increases.. to a point. I think theres some sort of reaction that goes on in the o2 filament when oxygen and fuel pass over it and generate electricity up to a point... could be wrong there

8Mike9

I think the reason why it generates no voltage is that it's not hot enough to get a chemical recaction going inside....or it's extremely lean

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Ok I can agree with you guys that I am running rich because of a slight smell every once in a while and my cat dying on me. I am trying to learn as we go so would changing the O2 sensor fix it or do you guys think that there is a deeper problem that I need to look into? Also what would be some of the other things that make you run rich. I know that there have to be a ton of them but just a few would help. Thanks again I have no idea what I did when this site was down.

chillz

wait...your catalytic converter, or your kitty cat? both would be indicative of xtra fumage.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Touche~

scotty d

evan, trust me you don't have a MAP sensor. the more i think about it, a good place to start would be to check the MAT (air temp). if it is not reading correctly your car might be running constantly in open loop mode which would explain the overly rich condition. it may think that the car has never reached operating temp to switch over to closed loop, which is when the O2 kicks in to regulate fuel richness. try to solve this problem before installing the AFPR. you will only cause yourself more headaches if you do. let me know if you need help, i'm free this sunday

MikeInAZ

Double check for a code 15, coolant temp sensor. A bad one can keep car from going closed loop, which enriches your mixture, and the torque convertor won't lock up, so basically your MPG goes out the window. It's worth the 10 bucks to possibly eliminate this prospect.

Another scenario:

How are you determining you have a code 45. If you are counting SES flashes double check to see if thats not really a code 44.

Reason is the symptoms you describe sound more like a code 44 lean exhaust which would indicate most likely a vacuum leak in the intake causing the O2 to see too much air in the exhaust, in which case it would enrich the mixture, smell like unburnt fuel, or your cat would stink, car wouldn't go closed loop and your MPG would be shot.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I will try all of those I have been really busy and have had no time to look into it further. Scotty sorry about the lateness but I had to work today. What about next Sun I have off and will be more than willing to drive to get the help. Let me know.

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

Geez. By Drkhrse89. Glad we could try to help.