I am building a 350 (ZZ Short Block right now) and I want to build a 450-500hp engine. I am just curious on what kind of TPI system would I need to support this much horsepower? Thanks.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Well, I am sure you could do it with a few, but my opinion would be to use the Accel Lingenfelter Superram. The cost is quite reasonable, and use it with the base too. I would take a little time to port and polish it as well as gasket match. This should give you enough power all the way past 6000rpm. The stock TPI setup of plenum runner isn't really much good past 5000. You'll have to do a lot of other things, but as for which TPI setup to use this would be it. If you don't have an existing ECM there are quite a few companies that offer those as well. Also just to be sure I would use no less than 24# injectors, probably 27 would do the trick on up to 500hp. Let me know how it goes and email me if you have any other questions I can try and help you with.

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87 GTA 350 L98
K&N filters, beefed up TH-700r4, Accel Manifold, Ported Plenum and Runners, Fuel Press. Regulator 49.5psi, air foil, modified MAF, SLP cold air box, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/160 thermostat, MSD 6AL and Blaster 3, B&M shift kit & megashifter, Moser Ford 9in Rear with Richmond 3.50 and locker, Edlebrock TES headers and Cat Back,Hotchkis setup in rear, Poly suspension and Koni in the front, relocated MAT, bypassed IAC, 300 lbs lighter

Fastest ET's
Stock-0-60 6.8, 1/4 15.0 @ 94
Best-0-60 4.7, 1/4 12.8 @ 112
Norm-0-60 5.2, 1/4 13.2 @ 108

 

The Accel/Lingenfelter Superram and the TPIS Miniram was designed for larger applications such as the 383 and 400 because there is a loss of low end torque involved!! With a built 350 I would recommend just getting a good aftermarket TPI intake, plenum, runners, and a 58mm throttle body!! By all means, if you don't have the TPI setup already, get the Speed Desity TPI and not the MAF TPI!!

 

odd seeing u here eric so building a 350 huh? a 500hp TPI? i hope u plan to use a power adder. I dont know of many 350 tpis that are at 500hp w out a power adder but hey what the hell do i know . My only advice i can give is......get the motor than ask questions. u will have to ask them again when u have to "cross that road" and that can sometimes be a PITA. N E way once u get the 350 than ask questions on how ur gonna supply fuel/air. Now the question is.....how are u gonna get the 350 block...no im not being a smart *** just shareing advice i learned....n e way go with a mini ram set up, those are good for high RPM high HP applications. They arent to low end friendly though, BTW check ur mail tonight ill have some intresting pics of my afternoon in ur box

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1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html
-------------------------
1985 trans am
factory bright yellow
4 wheel disks
16 inch wheels
305 TPI
power antenna and mirrors
t tops

 

Well the block I am buy is the ZZ Short Block from paceparts.com. I won't have any trouble affording that and I will add on my aftermarket parts as the money comes in. I am really unsure on the setup just yet. I have to do some research on what combos are good. Thats why I was doing some research here about the intake and fuel delivery. I thought about AFP(?)heads,LT4 hot cam w/ 1.6 rockers, my 3" exaust w/ 1-3/4" SLP headers, all MSD ignition and the 4 bolt 350 block already comes with PM rods, Forged Steel crank and High Silicon Aluminum Pistons w/Offset Pins.
Anyways, I am heading over to the Engine forum once I get the engine and can begin adding parts to it. But I am for sure wanting to go with TPI and of course Speed Density if I have to use a stock TPI system and modify it (which I would rather do instead of paying 3K for an injection system) I will be getting the block in the summer after my rims and different tires. Probably start the build in the winter.
And about the 500hp being rare w/o a power adder.....make sure you come to Woodward Dream Cruise this August Mike and I will show you how rare they are.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Judging by the parts and cam you're planning on using you'll never get 450-500 hp w/out a power adder using TPI. If you do, let me know how you did it cause I'll do the same thing. Yeah, there are plenty of 500 horse cars at cruises, but were there any with TPI? I doubt it.


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'88 IROC TPI 355, '69 truck 4-bolt, fully balanced, 9.75:1 compression, fully ported '70 truck heads(for now), Harland Sharp 1.6 Roller Rockers, Comp Cams CS 252AH-12, ported '86 TPI converted to speed density, Crane AFPR, Flowmaster 3in. exhaust, Edelbrock TES headers, all emissions equipment is still intact, plan on burning my own chips, many more mods and parts on the way as time and money permits =(
Best E.T. with TBI 305: 16.11 @ 82mph
Haven't been to track with new motor
Won bracket races at Numidia Raceway with my '70 Nova
In memory of Dale Earnhardt, I'll miss cheering for that black #3 on raceday!!!

 

Well than I will be putting a power adder on it then. Problem solved. The ZZ430 is pretty darn close to 500hp and they use the same block,cam and rockers I am going to use except they use the fastburn heads and I am using the AFP heads. From what I hear the AFP's are better heads then the Fastburns. So I think I will be pretty close to 500hp if they are better heads than the 430hp ZZ430's Fastburns..

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

That 430 horse is with a carb right? TPI is not the best setup for high horse motors.

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'88 IROC TPI 355, '69 truck 4-bolt, fully balanced, 9.75:1 compression, fully ported '70 truck heads(for now), Harland Sharp 1.6 Roller Rockers, Comp Cams CS 252AH-12, ported '86 TPI converted to speed density, Crane AFPR, Flowmaster 3in. exhaust, Edelbrock TES headers, all emissions equipment is still intact, plan on burning my own chips, many more mods and parts on the way as time and money permits =(
Best E.T. with TBI 305: 16.11 @ 82mph
Haven't been to track with new motor
If you have any questions on converting from TBI to TPI email me at jdkchevy70@yahoo.com
In memory of Dale Earnhardt, I'll miss cheering for that black #3 on raceday!!!

 

Your saying that I couldn't get a TPI to 750cfm? Cause thats what cfm they used to dyno the ZZ430 with.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Not with a STOCK TPI you can't!! Sure, you can buy the aftermarket 52 or 58mm throttle body but once the air gets past the throttle body then you've got the restriction of the stock plenum to deal with and the MASSIVE restriction of the stock intake! If you're really wanting to make that power then you should buy the Miniram.....otherwise, you're looking at buying aftermarket intake, runners, plenum, AND throttle body to get up to that HP with TPI!! Maybe if you port the intake, and the plenum on the stock TPI you could get 350-400HP....maybe!!

By the way....it's AFR, not AFP!!

 

LoL, I know I just saw that. Thanks
And I am here to find out what I would need to do if I went with TPI on this engine....so please don't get upset ok? I am learning here.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited April 05, 2001).]

 

i would use the Super Ram.
i thank you could get 500 hp out
of it but not 500 rear weel hp
oh and with a few other changes.

check out my simple page at:
http://darcom.home.texas.net/

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388 SuperRam, DFI, Vortech R trim ,N.O.S.,alki injection,
Dart sportmansII heads,50 pound injectors, Headman full headers
duel 3' exhaust,and Flowmasters, Ford nine inch with 370's
Ronal rims with Nitto drad raidals.

 

eric man im telling u stop wasteing ur money on that car, U want TPI, u want 16x8 inch WS.6 wheels, u want a 350, u want 24/36mm sway bars.......its just plain and simple u would be better off buying a 91 firebird formula 350 or a trans am. That way u will have alot more money to try and get 500 hp out of a NA 350. Does n e one else see where im coming from???? Like i said a supercharged/intercooled L98 will run 11,12 second passes for alot less than u would spend modding ur car. By the time ur done with ur suspention u already have a car with alot of power

 

Onefine, ur a moron.....
Say I buy ur Formula....I would have to take that L98 out anyways because its a 2 bolt. Show me a 2 bolt that will handle 500hp. I am not buying a formula and going thru all that trouble of selling and buying and insurance just for some sway bars I could have added in 30 min.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited April 06, 2001).]

 

im the moron?!?!?! u are the one whos already into his car a wasted 2000$ in mods. Not one of your mods will work with ur new set up, Not even ur STB and on top of that u want to dump another grand into ur suspention jsut to bring it up to par with WS.6........ya im a complete retard what was i thinking by the time ur even ready for suspention u will already be into ur car 3 grand and u wont even touch the motor. I sure hope u have atleast another 4 grand for this magic 500hp motor. Hmm thats 7 grans in mods not includeing the price of ur car. Ya i am a retard.......

 

Onefine8t9,
Why don't you leave him alone for pete's sake. It's his money, let him do what he wants.
Eric, bud, I think you need to be more realistic. I think to start off, that 430hp is a little idealistic. Add the accesories, exaust, and drivetrain and that figure drops. That shortblock should be a good place to start, though. A good set of AFR heads (or equiv), and a good intake and exaust, and you are set. Look for Traxion's posts on the MiniRam. Very informative. Personally, I'm staying with the stock looking TPI. With the LT4 Hot cam, it revs to 6 grand easy, (but then the tranny blew:rolleyes I don't need 500hp for the street (For now).

Good luck, I want to see how it goes.

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Bob '89 Ram Air Formula 350
Last(lost)Member of the Elusive Great Lakes Crew
My car's homepage

 

Hey Eric,
You have to break 200 hp before you an worry about 500. j/k

If I was you, and I was building another engine, I would just bore it and stroke it to a 383. You will definitely be able to make you 500hp and probably still be pretty streetable. You will have all of the torque you will ever need, then put a minram on top of it so it can breath at the high rpm.

It would all cost alot, but it will be well worth it

 

Yeah, guess that tranny cooler won't work, yeahh, guess my exaust system won't work, yeah, gues my March Pullies won't work, yeah, guess my KYB's and sway bars won't work, yeah, guess my MSD ignition stuff won't work. LoL. Dude just stop.
No its not that simple. I would have the 350...SWEET! oh wait, its a 2-bolt...it won't handle the power I am looking for...nevermind....OH WAIT! I GOT THE WS6 SUSPENSION! Oh wait, I can just pay 250 bucks and have it all done with the car I have now....
Sweet, well once I fork over the 3000 bucks after I buy this forumla for the blower I will be so cool. And all I had to do was sell my car, by a forumla, try and swap everything I can onto the L98, then port/polish the TPI, get headers, get exaust, redo everything because all my old mods would be gone with the old Firebird. Dude, its much easier this way. I know it will take a bit with getting the engine built and then ordering the transmission and rear end, but the transmission on that L98 I guarentee is re-built that ur talking about and I bet that rear end ain't stock either, and if it is then it won't make that many more passes. I think I can rest my case now....leave my thread.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

lol man u ahve got to be kidding me, so out of all that u get to keep an ignition and some pulleys?? Ur curent exauast set up wont be good enough to support a 500 hp motor and u havent even bought ur KYB's and sway bars lol

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
No its not that simple. I would have the 350...SWEET! oh wait, its a 2-bolt...it won't handle the power I am looking for...nevermind....OH WAIT! I GOT THE WS6 SUSPENSION! Oh wait, I can just pay 250 bucks and have it all done with the car I have now....

ok well like i said go talk to a guy by them name of trevor (blown WS6) on 3rd gen.org and let him tell u all about superchargeing an L98. Nevermind reguardless of what anyone tells you ur right lol ya id really like to see where ur gonna get a top of the line aftermarket suspention for 250$ LMAO

lol right dude whatever u say......

LOL **** ur thread, ur thread can suck my ****

 

ONEFINE8T9: la la la.....that's about what I hear when I read your s h i t....because that's what it is....absolute s h i t!! I don't know what your obsession is with this '91 Formula thing but I think you need to get some help!! I wouldn't give up my '86 TransAm for a '91 Formula any day!! I can just add a 350, a different cam, and a rear spoiler from a '91 formula and have the same basic car! Give it up!! No one wants to hear your s h i t!! Go f*ck a goat or somethin'!!

[This message has been edited by 86TpiTransAm (edited April 07, 2001).]

 

I don't get it....why shouldn't I put a 350 in my car and why should I keep the LO3?

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Put the 350 in the car!! There's no replacement for displacement!! But if you're wanting the HP numbers that you're talkin' about then you're gonna need Miniram or SuperRam....OR NOS if you're gonna use the stock TPI!! Also, if you have the extra money, turn that 350 into a 383....this will give you more HP and TQ any day!! But if you don't have the money then definitely just go with the 350.....it's tons better than the 305!!

 

I see where you are coming from!

 

no one ever said u shouldnt put a 350 into ur car i just said that it would be better off to find a car that came factory with one.

about time someone did!

 

ur a ****in palsy, u dont know what im saying do u? I didnt mean 91 formual for specific the only reason i said that was becouse he wanted a car with WS>6 and the formula is the closest thing available to the baseline firebird with WS.6 and the 350 option.....

 

O.K. Let's start this again, and try to stay a little more on the "Technical" path and a little farther from the "flametrower" path. Save the flames for the Mousetanks and Ricecakes....

 

closed