I know this question has been asked a bunch of times,and i know im probably gonna get flamed for this, but every time someone asks me what im doing to the camaro, i tell them im doing a modified 305. My question is, is my TPI set up a good setup(combination),some tell me TPI's are garbage,i should of gone with carbeurators, blah blah. I love TPI's and its my first project motor. The ATI procharger is out of the question for now, i plan on putting a 150-200 shot of NOS. But natually aspirated is the motor is good combination or am i wasting my time. NEED any info,suggestions,or comments(no bad comments ok). thanks

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92' camaro
New 305 block TPI conversion, Flat top pistons,Bore over .30 Forged parts all around,Edelbrock intake,ported plennum,ported corvette alluminum heads, accel cam,52mm throttle bodie, SLP runners Home aid cold air induction, Air foil,ford SVO 19lb injectors,fuel regulator,cloys timing chain, comp alluminum roller rocker arms and pushrods MSD 8.5 mm wires, bosch plattinum plugs, hypertech cap & rotor and coil, Edelbrock TES headers, free flowing catalytic converter and a 3 inch force II flowmaster exhaust system, and a 3 inch cutout,Zoom multi friction clutch, T-5 tranny,billenstien shocks&struts.
Soon to come!!!
Procharger system 12lbs o boost.
New paint job(hawaiin orchid purple)Cast alluminum ZR1 rims w/ 275 tires.
Favorite quote: "where ever u go, there u are"

Other car;
1971 plymouth Duster
Mods:340,edelbrock victor jr. intake, 650 4 barrel holley, heddman headers,40 series dual flowmasters, cold air intake,4:10 gears, just got a new paint job and cragar rims with 315 tires in the back.
:Yeah its not a chevy but damn how many 71' dusters have u seen in the streets.

 

Sounds like a decent setup. But personally, if i were to build a motor from the get go i would start with the most cubes possible.
But whatever gets you through the day. As long as you are happy with it and what not.

Brendan

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1987 IROC-Z L98,SuperRam,EB 6085's,LPE 219/219 Roller, Crane 1.6RR, EB TPI Base, 58mm TB, ADS 24#, AFPR, K&N, EB TES, Catco Cat, 3" Borla Cat-Back, Accel cap,rotor,distro/other crap, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 3, Aluminum DS, 94 Disk Rear, Adjustable Valve, Precision 3.73 Gears, Sub-Frame Connectors, Hotchkis Lower Control Arms, KYB Shocks/Struts, Suspension Techniques Lowering Springs, Polyurethan Bushings all over the place, Moog Upper/Lower Ball joints and Tie Rods ends/Idler Arm,

To see the ROC, Check out the webpage Here

 

I think you need to do what YOU want...305's are good engines, just need a tad more mods to make them go...but it's always nice to say "...yea I run a 305" after a mid to low 13 sec pass....hehe

 

You can hit 12's with a 305. The same principles apply to all the small block TPI motors. The only reason more people don't run 305's is that when getting a rebuilt shortblock it's usually a little cheaper to get a 350 rotating assembly than a 305 assembly.

 

The TPi system is a good setup. Anyone who says differntly doesnt know what they are doing. I dare anyone to find a carbed setup that has such long runners (makes huge torque). My car is running 13.8s with about the same mods it takes an LT1 to run the same kinda times. people just think its junk cause it got a bad rep in the early day as being hard to work with.

As for the 305 vs. 350 debate..... go 350 if there is any way you possibly can. it just makes so much more sense. i know the 305 guys dont want to hear this but come on...bigger bore, unshrouds the valves better, makes more power with the same mods you put on a 305. I really look at 305's as a waste of time if you have the means and knowledge to put together an engine. I kinda look at the 350 the same way sometimes, if you have the means to build an engine,build a 383 then. Not trying to knock fellow 3rd genners, but if you really want to haul then build a 350 or 383. Sure you can make a 305 go 12's but you can make a 350 go 11's for the same amount of money.

 

The good thing about the 305 is that it has the same stroke as the 350. (3.48") So it makes really good torque, exactly what GM designed it for. The bottom line is that once you start trying to produce more than
1 hp/cid, then it really starts getting expensive. The 305 would be better on fuel in the long run. The TPI system I think was designed for the 350 L98 Corvette. The problem with doing up a 350 though, is trying to find a post '86 core so you can use your original flywheel and stock roller cam and lifters etc. My opinion is to use a 350 if you can find one reasonably priced. That said, the stock 305 in my '89 IROC ran a 14.4 @96mph. The only thing I did was cut open the air box and had K&Ns, with really bad tires. TPI is one of the best things to have happened to the small block.
Hope your rebuild goes smoothly.

 

Accually to tell u the honest truth the tpi system was made for the 305. Donno why but it was. Since this is so i guess that the aftermarket intakes and the such wouldn t help a slightly modded 305. What do u think?

 

in the end the small bore of a 305 will hurt you as far as performaance you can put 2.02 heads but the cam will have to be very mild as far as lift (chance of hitting cylinder walls thr 305 tpi is a good engineered motor it needs a little help siamese the runners port the plenum and a good chip will help the motor then i would start on the drivetrain get a good converter 3.70 gears and try to lighten up the car a little fibreglass fenders hood deck lid etc.

 

Actually the reason im builing the 305 TPI, was cause of marage's statement. I wanted to make a fast decent 305 TPI, sure i could of done it the easy and most expected way, go with a 350 or 383, but its rare to see a low 13'sec camaro with a 305TPI in the street. I just hope my setup is good for the mean time, besides with gas prices going to $3.00 a gallon, i think ill stick with the 305 TPI

 

305's are nice little motors. I had one in my IROC that was the original motor and I ran a best of 13.9 @98mph after many mods. Then I decided I wanted to get serious, out came the 305 and in went the 406.
Bottom line,would I spend any money on rebuilding a 305....NOPE!! It's a waste when about the same money will get you a 350...and not much more will get you a 400

 

i personally like the 305s. i have never had one!!
but i want to find a 1991-1992 Z 305 5spd G92. and put an all forged rotating assembly with a steel crank, and then put 20 psi of boost on it, and blow the hell out of anyone on the the street, but if i did that, i would definately use TPI, and i would consider MR, but LT setup gives you much better torque, i would use Edlebrock base PORTED, and Siamesed runners and plenum ALL SIAMESED the fit perfectly. and then a 52 mm TB, and run a new chip,
with a suspension that could easily launch that car into the 11s. especially with those gears out back. and some slicks!!
but that will come later i guess!!!!!!
Keep up the good work VORTECH305 i envy you for the 305 project, and remember if you ever crack your block, there are all those 305s just sitting in the garages of those guys who now have 350,383,406s free blocks man, they will never use them again!!

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Jarrad
1990 IROC-Z L98 350 TPI
TH-700R4
G92- 9 Bolt Borg-Warner 3.27gears
Bright Red Hardtop/ Grey "Custom" Interior
NOT STOCK, NO WHERE CLOSE!
NEW RED PAINT and WELD PROSTARS.

DAILY DRIVER: 1991 GREY S10 2.5L/5SPD -FOR SALE. leaving for army.

 

feel better

 

Er, two words... Tunnel Ram.



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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

I think what 88blkiroc was refering to is <U>low-end torque. </U>Not the kind you make at 5500 RPM with a Tunnel Ram. Come on now -how many street cars with Tunnel Ram intakes are making streetable torque. (1500-4000 RPM)? --But I might be wrong.

 

Could be.

 

anyone else!!!!!!!

 

Okay, lemme see here... Those who say "Goto a carb, blah blah." Are normally the ones who don't understand fuel injection or don't know howto make power with it. Just because you stick a .510/510, with 230 duration and 108 LSA cam in a TPI car doesn't mean it's gonna make more power...it would need to be prom tuned.

Okay as for the 305, well, If ya got a good thing, don't let it become a bad thing. Push the 305 to the limits. After ya get tired of that push a 350 to the limits. Hell, look at my car...i'm pushing it to the limits every time i drive it lol (181,000 original miles).

People around here are like "400 SB, omg...woah" then they see a 350 and are like "pft, what do you call that.." but guess what i'm comfortable with my 350, it's what i like. So i guess the real question for you is, what are you more comfortable with?

I'll jump off the stage now and hand the spotlight over to someone.




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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Gutted cat
-!AIR
-Gutted Air Boxes

 

Here is Scoggin-Dickey's description of a SBC Tunnel Ram:

Designed for 302-327-350-400 c.i.d. small-block Chevy V8s operating below 7500 rpm <font color=red size=4>where low-end torque is not a prime factor.</font> Great for engines with slightly modified heads. Applicable to street machines, street rods, pro street and marine. Will not fit 1987 and later cast-iron heads."

...What every good thirdgen needs!

Er, two words... Er NOT!




[This message has been edited by whiteroc (edited June 07, 2001).]

 

No LS1, no LT1 and definetly no carburetor will make as much low-end torque as a Tuned Port Injection set-up.(apples to apples) For street racing that's exactly what you want. Vortech has ran an ad showing a 9 second (9.95 @ 135MPH) 85 IROC-Z 305 TPI owned by Preston Smith -Daily Driven. So have fun blowing away those 350s, 383s and 400s with your under-rated 305.

 

hey whtiteiroc,please tell me u know that guys website, i've seen his site before, and saw his 9 sec tpi camaro in a video footage, please tell me u know his websit, thanks

 

Your in luck...
http://home.earthlink.net/~tpi305/
Enjoy!

 

I agree if you are doing a full rebuild, go with something bigger. If you have a 305 laying around, use it. They are good motors.
I bought my rebuilt 305 to replace the blown one in my old 84 Camaro. Later I stuck a bigger cam, and some 305 torquer heads on it along with some other mods. Suprisingly, I found .060 oversize pistens in it while replacing the heads. Now it is in a 89 Iroc with TPI. Recently it ran 14.5 and with some tuning and traction should be in the 13s. I just put a nitrous setup on it last week. I love the reactions I get when I say it's just a 305.

 

I say differently. I dare you to find a TPI setup that has the top-end potential of a four-barrel single plane. Its not going to happen. Sure, maybe you get more torque with a TPI setup, but after the first 300-500 ft, the race is mostly about top end breathing, and in that area, the long-runner system hasn't got squat.

Huh? What does all that torque translate to in track times? An LT1 will smoke an L98. An LS1 will ANNIHILATE an L98 by over two seconds and probably 20 carlengths. (Of course I'm talking stock verus stock) Sure, you got maybe 30ft-lb on the LT1, and 10 on the LS1, but what good is that torque when all you're seeing is 4th gen taillights?

------------------
'89 Firebird Formula 350
L98, WS6, Red/grey, t-tops, and a 3.27:1 rear
K&N, TB bypass, no MAF screens, CAI, full Accel ignition, no cats, Hooker Supercomp shorties, Hooker 3-inch catback
ET? 14.19@98.9mph (G-tech)
(Corrected for G-tech 'extra' 6mph)
Also own '83 Firebird 2.8 2bbl. 155K miles.
ET? Break out the calendar!

 

what the hell does this have to do with the intitial question.

 

I have seen Preston Smiths 305 run high 9's with a supercharged 305....His car is immaculate....musta gone through it piece by piece cause it's mint! It has alot of arizona speed & Marine stuff on it and he has done a TON of mods and tweaking to it, he has an electric pump setup that pumps ice water from a reservoir through the TB, plenum air intake piping and it also pumps ice water through a fabricated intercooler..awesome to say the least!.....The high 9's didnt come easy for him but it is one amazing car to watch race....have'nt seen him yet this year but he raced alot up here in NH at new england dragway last year...Beautiful car!

 

Okay -what kind of torque is that single plane carbed motor making? High-end torque. That means it's a dog below 4000 RPM which is the reason for 3500-4000RPM converters -to get it into it's power band.( try running a single plane car with an 1800RPM converter) On the flip side the TPI is limited to 5500 RPM or less(because of the long runner design) but makes huge low-end torque(gets the car moving sooner at the same stall speed)which is the reason that they came with 1800 RPM converters(RPM at where they are making torque.

If you did'nt know the TPI intake(base,plenum and runners -heads were poorly designed as well) were all designed for 305 ci.in. (including the Corvette's) The LS1 and the LT1's intakes were designed for 350 cu. in. So in all fairness you should compare the output of a TPI with 350 parts on a 350. Which would mean moving up to the closest thing to what GM should have put in there in the first place. A TPIS, Edelbrock etc. 350 sized replacement parts. (larger plenum, runners,base intake, cam, heads etc.) With these parts in place the TPI would far out power (out torque) a stock LT1 and would be a rival to the LS1 while retaining it's long runner design. --How well do you think an LS1 or LT1 would run if it had an intake designed for a 305 motor?

By the way LS1s don't run 12.5s bone stock ("2 seconds quicker than an L98")Better stock L98s(89-92) ran 14.7-14.5s. Stock LS1 cars run in the 13.8 to 13.3 range.

[This message has been edited by whiteroc (edited June 09, 2001).]

 

I've found a happy medium, 327. Fourth gens see third gen tail lights when playing with me. especially in the top end.

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82' Z-28. 327" w/ flat tops. 216/228/112LS. Pocket ported 041 heads 1.94/1.50 SS valves. World Class T-5 from a 91'. Best run? Runs with 2001 vette to 150mph! Soon to be converted over to TPI w/ supercharger.

 

hey whitrock,if your there, the website u gave me for the 9 sec. 305 TPI does not work, it says file does not exist, is there another website, i can go to, to see the video. please help

 

I will admit, I was one of those guys who said TPI is crap. Ya know the real reason I thought this... it seemed like tooo many wires and complicated stuff for me. That was until I bought a 91 Z with the 350TPI setup. I would seriously consider never owning another carb car again! As far as the low end/high end arguement, TPI can be modified to run with any carb you put against it. You just have to understand it. Plus the TPI setup offers better gas mileage usually and better reliability. With TPI I just put the key in and and fire her up. With carb I have to mash the pedal to the floor and wait for it to warm up(Holley ). As for the 305/350 debate I personally like the 350 a lot better,but it would be cool to run a 13 and then brag about it being a 305 . Just my 2 cents worth.

 

The TPI unit brought the F cars and the Vettes back into the new muscle car race with technology...it was the sheehit of the 80's and when the LT1 came out, the spin doctors hyped up the media what a great new engineering feat they had with the LT1 motor..they had to show that the TPI was out of date and not a very good set up.
BS!!

This move in technology got us where they have literally 12 second small blocks off the showroom floor.
It had to start someplace...that doesnt make it bad.

Dont forget ,the "new" then TPI got the Vette to run over 150 mph in stock form.
With some mods and tuning it can be made better.
Its great for the street..and 305s..i wouldnt drive a 305 without a TPI...I drove a 91 formula 305 TPI a few years back and it was FUN!

1/4 mile times arent everything..some of the times are a blink of an eye apart and people lose sleep over it.
The TPI is also pretty easy to run right and tune, cosnidering you know how to work on them...at first I was like "damnn..im lost!" I learned how to work on them and now with my scanner I can set the TPS and min air speed faster then I could ever get a carb to run right.


If you run nitrous, be sure you have very strong pistons(forged maybe?) and saftey switches etc, whatever their techo babble is..
That should help the engine run a long time.

Even though im a 350 Man, if someone likes the idea of a 305 running the best it can be for the challenge factor..go for it.
Theyre still great engines to run..just been misunderstood.



------------------

1986 Vette Coupe,auto, alum. heads,40 over,crane cam,3.73 Gears,The usual Mods..
Had an 86 Bird before..want to get another F car again!

 

I didn't have any problem when I checked it today. Might be user error... But seriously, I will give the download addresses below so you can bypass the site if it still doesn't work for you. --Also -try cut & pasting the address. I tried it both ways and it worked for me. ??? or the guys site was down for repairs or something like that. Let me know if you still can't get it to work. Later Bro.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tpi305/iroc.mov


[This message has been edited by whiteroc (edited June 14, 2001).]

 

Hey Vortech, good luck with your modded 305. You have to look at things from the oppposite side of we 350 owners. Your intake (the everyday long runner tpi) was designed, tested, and built for a 305. We see money flying out of the wallet for a miniram or super-ram. (Big $$$ flying) You see...siamese...polish...larger tb...I'm set!!! (ALOT less money). I get around 18 (my best is 20 on a LONG road trip) mpg and you can easily see (I've got friends to prove it) 22 - 28 mpg. I'm sure you'll be laughing all the way to the bank when you not only put your tail light blur in a 350 owner's sights, but spend an enormous amount less on your over-achieving 305. I've learned (from driving around a v6 firebird that could pass for a gta - hood and all) that it's not the cubes under the hood (just ask all those honda and mazda owners with v6s and rotaries) but how efficient the cubes are. And since you drive a thirdgen, don't ever forget that your car looks nice (and like its going 120 sitting still), no matter what size engine is hiding underneath.


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~3.1EyeCandy~
"The Car that started my craze"

'92 Firebird 3.1 (A car sold)

My new baby: '87 flame red GTA 350 w'auto
Carmine interior with pioneer all around
Hooker Catback, Airfoil, K&N
http://3.1EyeCandy.tripod.com

 

THANKS EVERYONE, FOR SUCH KIND GESTURES, BUT IM IN A REALLY BAD SITUATION AT THIS POINT, LOST MY JOB, AND I DONT HAVE THE $1,500 DOLLARS THAT I NEED TO INSTALL EVERY SINGLE PART THAT I BOUGHT FOR THE CAMARO. ex. MOTOR,EXHUAST,TRANNYECT. SOME GUY OFFERED ME SOME MONEY FOR MY MOTOR,(MOTOR IS ON STAND IN MY FRIENDS SHOP)AND I DECLINED, AFTER ALL THE HOURS I SPENT ON GETTTING PARTS FOR THAT MOTOR, AFTER ALL THE HOURS LISTENING TO JEGS AND SUMMITS REPRESENTATIVES, THERES NO WAY IN HELL IM GETTING RID OF THIS MOTOR, im HOPING TO DO LOW 13'S TO HIGH 12'S WITH THE 200 SHOT OF NOS. ANY DONTATIONS>>>>>>...superz-28@myself.com