RARE-ROC-Z

so i was talking to a few friends about all the build ups of these 396 stroker LT1s and i have decided that i will build my car with a 396 miniram and later slap a vortech on it,

what would be the downfalls to this.
and i am referring to the N/A motor not the blower motor.
i am serious, and should i get a 4bolt block? or can i just use the stock 2bolt and splay the mains.
4.030" bore and 3.875" stroke = 396ci
that is what i have concluded.
and the army money has to go somewhere. might as well be the ROC.
thanks

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Jarrad
1990 IROC-Z L98 350 TPI
TH-700R4
G92- 9 Bolt Borg-Warner 3.27gears
Bright Red Hardtop/ Grey Interior


DAILY DRIVER: 1991 GREY S10 2.5L/5SPD -FOR SALE.

Tas

They have to go that route because there was never a 400cid LT1. We are better off because we can start with a 400. Do what you will but a super long stroke 350 will be costly.

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

To be installed eventually far far far into the future: Yours if the price is right and I don't have to ship :
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.

Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz

Guido

I say go for it! That would be a killer combo I think. Long stroke for torque and mini ram for breathing. Just make sure that you use a good set of heads, and a long duration camshaft. If you are plannin on forced induction, make sure you keep the compression ratio in check.

A 400 block isnt really that great for boost. In hindsight, I wish I had used a 350 instead of the 400 for my blower project.

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-86 IROC
S-Trim, Speed Pro, AFR
this years goal: 10.50 @ 130+ mph
-=ICON Motorsports=-

Grim Reaper

Talk to Jason (aka 89Vette), that is the combo he has gone with. Initially, he was having a bitch of a time getting it to work properly with the MAF system, so he went SD which makes it easier to tune for reasonable driveability and performance.

Now that Jason has gotten a good "base" VE Table, he is progressing quite well with his tuning of his eprom. For a "big motor" you realy need to look at using SD (which you SHOULD HAVE with your 1990), because they don't suffer from the 255 gm/sec air flow problem that a MAF motor suffers. You just need to adjust the "Cylinder Displacement" constant for the "Mighty Mouse".

Yes, a 396 is fairly expensive to build due to the "special crank/piston" combo (possibly rods too). But if you are looking at a "power adder" down the road, you would be wanting these "high priced" pieces anyways, so why not? It won't really be that much different than a 383 with "special parts".

The reason the 383 is such a popular combo is that if it is just Naturally Aspirated, you can use "cheaper parts". For just 13 extra cubic inches, and without a need for those parts, it is an expensive 13 cubic inches.

RARE-ROC-Z

yes i have SD, and i dont want to go with a 400 my friend just built himself a 406 (he works at american speed in moline)
and i dont like copying people, and the thought of the torque from the 396 is great, and since you SUSPOSEDLY lose torque with the MINIRAM it will make up for it all, and i will be using AFR 195s to accomedate the engine, and a DUI distributor, i dont know how to make my own proms yet so i might start, but i will mostlikely ask for assistance from someone,
and money for the lowerend will be there so i am not worried about that, i am just taking a list now,
Scat crank, forged 2valve relief pistons, going with 9.1-9.5 compression, 6" rods, and it will be built by justin most likely or just have him assist me, i know how to build it, but if i want it perfect have him build it.

and yes the 383 is too common now, i had planned on it, and i had already laid out the parts and everything but now it seems like everyone and their mother has a 383 either on here on here in town. so i decided i want to be different.

and my car is basically stock now since i am putting the IROC rims back on, the only thing different is the decal delete.

no one will ever know what is going on, unless they know the whole story.
thanks guy and i will keep you up to date.

Grim Reaper

I strongly suggest you look into eprom buring now. It will be a lot easier to "tune" that 396 if you already have grounded yourself on the principles of tuning on your existing motor.

Yes the VE Table will have to change, but that is a lot easier than people would like you to know. Maybe they are eprom writers and don't want you to know how easy it can be.

On Jason's 396, we found the Upper VE Table, playing with the spark and "pump shot" the major things that needed to be played with. Initially, Jason was so frustrated trying to get his 396 to run that he was ready to swap his Miniram for a Superram. He's glad he didn't now.

Jason's critical error is that he waited until he got the 396 before he looked into an eprom. He just assumed that could buy one and off he goes. Well, he bought a few...and from GOOD EPROM WRITERS at a good buck. Still did not perform like he felt it should.

But with a little work (and using the basic AUJP BIN I will add), we got Jason's 396 working...and very well. Now Jason is into "tweaking" and trying to extract EVERY little HP he can from the 396.

I am sure that if Jason was to respond to this thread he would say, that he WISHED he had gotten in eprom burning much sooner so he wouldn't have to be learning on something so radically different as his first shot.

I would also be willing to bet that Jason now firmly believes that the BEST eprom is the one you tune yourself as no custom writer can make the "perfect" eprom from a "list of specs". I am sure he would say the best eprom he has is the one he has their right now, and it is getting better by the day.

PETE

iTrader: (1)

have you seen the new kit on the market?i cant really remember who itt's from maybe powerhouse or motown but it strokes a 350 to 401.1cu.in. you said you wanna be different,there is also a kit on the market but is quite costly a 427 small block the only one i know who used it was lingenfelter but that was a rocket block not a production block good luck with whattever you choose

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87 trans am 350 L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,1 5/8 headers,y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,afpr,ported plenum,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt(11.9in. brakes),ads strip chip,relocated iat sensor,hollowed maf

14.10@97mph w/2.01 60'
superram and chip coming soon

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Why not just mod the L98??

------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

89vette

There are a few things I don't like about your idea. First of is the Minram has an air distribution problem that I hear gets real bad with a blower. The front cylinders run much leaner than the rear. Second, the 396 with its rod and stroke ratio is not the best choice for a blower in my opinion. I would much rather have a hi winding 355 for a supercharged application. Then you still have the intake issue.

As far as tuning, forget buying a prom and having it perform anywhere near "barely runs". It takes a while to learn but you will most likely (hell it might be me)find someone that will take you under his wing if your really having problems. My car was a bear to tune ever since I put the Miniram on back when it was still a 350. The Super ram was much easier to tune. Or I should say with a 350 and a Super ram, my car ran great with an Ed Wright chip. With the Miniram, he never did get it running right. SD is fairly straight forward once you get the hand of it and invest the time for data logging, crunching numbers and burning. Don't do what I did and buy an aftermarket prom. You will end up hating your car.

The 396 does have alot of torque but the Miniram will tame it. You have to ask yourself if you want torque or HP. The reason I built the 396 is because I wanted to be different, it didn't cost any more than an all forged 383 and the number is just sooooo damn cool!

Good luch and keep me posted. Oh and if you do go a 396, you should seriously consider using the Lunati promod rods. The are forged 4340 steel made in the US and are profiled to clear a standard base circle cam. My opinion is to stay away from all Chineese parts (Scat, Eagle) and go with top quality US manufacture. My bottom end is a Callies Stealth crank, Lunati promod rods and SRP pistons. With the heads, intake, machine work, headers etc, figure on spending about 9 grand easy.

Jason

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89 Six Speed FX3 coupe
More Performance 396cid specs:
Callies 4340 crank 3.875 stroke
Lunati Pro-Mod 5.85" rods
SRP Pistons 14cc dish
Comp Cams Custom cam 550 lift 220/229 duration
10.8:1 compression
AFR 195 competition ported heads
Miniram and TPIS 1 3/4" headers
Speed Density conversion in process

Ions91Z28

Jason, any chance you've ever run your car?

------------------
91 Z28
Best Time Slip:
60' - 2.098
1/8 - 9.137 , MPH - 76.21
1/4 - 14.213, MPH - 97.55

Mods: SLP Exhaust, umm...nothing else..sorry

Stereo: Alpine 855, Infinity Kappas all around, Infinity 150x2 amp (POS), Infinity Perfect 10 in hatch.

Webpage coming soon.

RARE-ROC-Z

wow looks like i have a lot of learning to do, and a lot of saving also.

i have read about how to start burning eproms and i got soo lost i had to get offline.

and now you say that the eprom for the 396 will set me back for a long time, if i start there.

maybe i should just buy the afr heads and do something like traxion first then get into the stroker motors and power adders.

also at work today i was told not to add a blower to such a long stroked engine. but if i wanted a blower stick with a 355 and rev to a mear 7500 or so.
but all forged rods and pistons and a steel crank and then just be rev happy.
this is an idea and till i get all the parts everything is an idea.

and thank you so much everyone. this is why i love this board. everyone helps everyone else.

89vette

Listen, I'm taking credit for telling you not to put a blower on a 396. I don't care where you work! (Joking of course). You can build a very fun car with a nice cam and Hi flow TPI. I like the ported stock base, ASM runners and a ported plenum, ported stock heads (If you have the Vette heads) headers, 52mm TB etc. That will be much easier to tune and will make awesome torque. That was my setup prior to the 396. Very fun to drive.

Tileguy

I've had a 396 stroker in my Vette with a D1 pro charger going on 5 years now, it for sure has come with a host of issues, but there isn't much on the road that can take me. 4L80 Trans was a must. All forged everything, 48lb injectors, 58 mil throttle body, but tunning and keeping it cool has been the hurdle of a lifetime, gonna do the hammer Vette style hood with the holes in the front of the hood. This post is ancient, but I wish it was still going, because I'm sure there has been many a person doing the 396 at this point.

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

Tileguy, have any dyno numbers or timeslips with your combo?

Tileguy

11.3 couldn't hook up and that was at 7000 elevation, mortor NA before supercharged dynoed at 300 exactly to the wheels, if I ever could put slicks on it with a smaller pulley on the pro charger it'd be low 10s easy but with the Dana 36 I dare not throw the slicks on it. It's got a following and a reputation here in reno believe me. It's been a 10 year project but so many problems to many to go into. Ran lean on me blew my motor , two injectors failed, that was a major expense, that motor was the best ever too.

Sent from my iPhone

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PAFORM350

Old threads yes but good to see it bounce back. GMHTP built a 396 and put it in a 88 Formula if I remember correctly. Worked great as I remember

92RSZ

iTrader: (6)

Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on this as I've had both displacements. Build as many cubic inches as you can afford. I went from a 396 to a 420 and the difference is night and day. I ran the same cam on both (zzx) and heads (afr 195 on 396, 210 on 420) on both. The 420 will demolish the 396 at every rpm. Neither motor lacks for torque and both rev easily to 7000 with the right supporting parts. The old saying there is no replacement for displacement is very true.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Old thread!!! Lol

Tileguy is your setup using an fmu as fuel control? If not i have a hard time believing 48 lb injectors are working in that setup

Problem with 3.875 stroke in the factory block is it leaves a short piston in there. Cant get rings as far down away from the crown like you can with a 3.48-3.75 stroke. Limits amount of dish you can have for compression control. Rings closer to the crown in a boosted application will see more heat and you'll need alot more ring gap. Increases blowby slightly

Can work but i would build a 383 if you are buying internals. Far more available cranks rods and piston combos you can get.

Plus have more cam to rod clearance. It can be tight in a 3.75 let alone a 3.875