Here is the build up so far:

ZZ4 Motor, headers, 3" exhaust, hypertech chip, 24# fuel injectors, k&n's, 3.73's (finally!), billet servo, shift kit, 1850 stall, afpr, tb coolant bypass, 48mm tb and stock tpi (not ported).

With this setup, I have run a 12.9 so far on drag radials by launching at about 1700 and easing into the throttle. I also knocked down a 4.4 in the 0-60. I have a fully ported SuperRam to go onto my setup soon also, but right now I just feel my mid range/top end sucking bad. Even whenever I am going about 40+ mph to start a race, I can get beat by a lot more people than down low. A great example would be my buddy with his Cobra that he dropped in a $6,000 331 stroker into. Since he can't hook up, I just leave him off the line, and am not sure if he can catch up (probably not). But if we start at around 40 mph, he will pull on me pretty good. What do you guys suggest I
do as a mod next? 52mm tb? Cam? Traction? (I can't just floor it now), torque converter? Thanks in advance! Eventually, I think a 11.90 would be REALLY nice

 

Unfortunately from most people on this board even a fully ported and siamesed after market LTR setup will just lie down and die on the high side, if your looking into high side power MR or SR is what most people go to, but 11's seconds on LTR, hell if you can, go for it, I plan on keeping my LTR, but I only want 13's out of it (daily driver) I got plans for a weekender warrior later.

Also what is your 60' now???

Traction items might be good, if you can hook better you could bring that ET down alittle more and make 11's on LTR just that much closer.

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1989 Trans Am GTA

 

i'd do some intake work(porting the **** out of it) and a nice torque converter

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Check out MyGTA Nicknamed:The Big Red Machine
***AOL IM ClarkeMustGoNow***
Moderator at www.transamgta.com
"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

 

I have a fully ported SuperRam to go on this right now.

 

You said 3" exhaust but didn't mention headers. If you don't have headers, that'd be my next step. If you do, I'd do the converter next, then the superram, then the cam. That's my order.

 

Is there any reason you have not put the super ram on other than time. If not, I dont have a lot of experience, but from what I have been reading this should help you out a lot.

Ben

 

Port the heck out of the intake, or put that superram on! You will also benefit with a larger TB, and using a custom chip.

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Mike Metzler (Desert86Roc)[*] Check Out:SpeedWorldMotorplex.com[*] Check Out:Chevrolet F-Body Online Part & Illustration Manual[*] My 86 IROC 305 TPI Page (406 build in progress)

ET's @ 1250 ft[*] 14.28 @ 95.461 mph (uncorrected, NOS, no headers)[*] 15.362 @ 88.238 mph (uncorrected, headers, no NOS)
<><

[This message has been edited by Desert86Roc (edited October 22, 2001).]

 

well since u have a superram going on..you have PLENTY of options now

You could a do a cam, LPE makes cams designed for the S/R. With that said u'd need a chip and it would be a good idea to get a higher stall TC

You didn't mention headers, they would make a nice difference, amd u wouldn't have to change anything else to maximize performance

 

hehe man...my spiel must have been more boring that anything! No one saw first that I said I do have a SuperRam and that it is FULLY PORTED (extrude honed runners too) AND headers! Hahah This is too funny. A couple more questions for you guys:

1. What converter? Would a 2500 do good for me?

2. I was told that after everything I needed to buy, the LPE 219 would cost like 800 bux or so if I remember correctly. Is there a comp cams cam that will work just as well?

 

Is that 12.9 a G-Tech time? just wondering b/c you also posted a 0-60mph time which doesn't come with a timeslip and you should be extremely happy running 12s with the LTR. Sounds too good to be true, sorry if I'm mistaken. Most guys don't gain much with a ZZ4 engine with stock fuel injection on it. maybe mid-high 13s at ~104mph, same as if they put a cam and similar mods(exhaust etc.) to their stock 350.

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14.62@96mph headers, muffler, chip, ghetto stuff, duct tape
89 GTA 305 TPI 5 speed 3.42 gears

 

lol...no, I don't have LTR's I have a STOCK tpi setup. yes, it is a G-Tech...that is why I do not post mph because the G-Tech is known to be incredibly accurate for et's but about 3-4 mph on avg off. Before the gears, I ran a 13.3 which I was also pleased with, but not satisfied....

I just saw that you said the numbers were too good to be true. Let me assure you they are perfectly legit. Several people have seen it run with 12 second cars, as well as me racing my friends with 12 second cars. I went to the track once and I got a 13.6 (my first time ever at a track) that was peeling out, before gears, tranny, several other mods. So, in other words...believe it!

[This message has been edited by 89IROCZZ4 (edited October 22, 2001).]

 

ltr = long tube runners = stock tuned port setup

 

oh, I gotcha

 

cam and a converter and a custom chip. The chip will be need to correct for the cam and the TC will be need to get the engine in the torque range because of the new cam, kinda like a domino effect

 

ok just read your original post, is that hypertech chip custom or off the shelf? if its off the shelf its not doing much considering a custom chip is usually in order for 24# injectors...

 

he did say that people seemed to be missing stuff in his origional post. lol

 

hey cut me some slack, i'm polish

 

sorry but ive seen LTR setups dip into the 12s consistantly on back to back to back runs. running mid to mid-high twelves. thats with the stock manifold, runners, and injectors.

 

I just thought that it was kind of funny. Nothing personal.

 

i know, thats just my excuse in life, if i **** up, Hey don't blame me i'm polish

 

The chip was in the car when I bought it - I am guessing it is custom, as it seems to be working very well.

 

12.9 is a possibility,on a great track with great weather.If he can launch hard with the 3:73 rear against the converter and hit a killer 60 ft.G tecs are about+ -.1 usually ,setup is real important.Hooking up its probly at least a low 13 car.There is kid around here ,that has about the same setup with drag radials also and 2:73 rear and hes gone a 13.4x.

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86 z28 zz4 ssm lift bars ,3.73 simesed runners and a traction deficient 13.707@101.02,on a 2.16 60 ft on 295/50/15 junk street rubber ,best MPH run 13.82@102.7,69 AMX,390 4 speed sticky tires and other stuff..12.94@102.3

[This message has been edited by 86ZZ4 (edited October 22, 2001).]

 

I figured that was a gtech time as soon as i saw it this morning. 12.9s would be insane on an untouched stock intake. Even imperfect from a Gtech, any kind of low 13s is insane for untouched stock pieces.

As for what is next, well, you're already doing great, so you got to be careful and think if you want to keep that going. An important thing to keep in mind at this point is, take advice from people that are slower than you with a big grain of salt (including me, but you'll note, i'm not gonna give a 'do this list'...) From where you are right now, you have nowehere to go but slower really. You have to decide ahead of everything else at this point what you want it to do. Here's how i would break down your combo and options....

-heads. The AL L98 heads on the ZZ4 aren't great. If you're not going to port them they really aren't going to work for you for much more power. You have to factor this into the...
-cam. The ZZ4 cam is small. Great for torque and not trying to rev the TPI, and together that is all working great. Now with a superram you'll want to pick something to go with that, but also take into account how much power your heads will effectively support. As a rough start, something like the 218/224 comp XR or the next size up would probably be about as much cam as the L98 heads would really support. Search around on the boards to see what other FAST cars w/ your heads have run. Also wouldn't hurt to give comp a call directly. Then you get into the...
-torque converter. Here is a big decision, do you want to go really fast, or do you just want something adequate. If you want to fly, no question, get a vigilante hands down. 1/2 second drop in ET almost guaranteed by swapping to one of these. Yeah you could buy some brand X hi-stall converter, and you might even runa little faster with it. From everything i've seen after years on these boards, no other converters compare (except yank) Stall will be based on your cam/heads.

Beyond that, i hope you're running a good 1 3/4 header, otherwise you're at aanother bottleneck there already as well.
And last but not least, you HAVE to start burning your own PROMs. There's no way around it at this point, the stock programming will be a great unknown in an otherwise high dollar well though out combo, and could really keep you down.

Honestly, i don't think you'll get near an 11 second time slip unless you port them heads up pretty good at the least, with acam with closer to 230' of intake duration @ 0.050. And a good TC.


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Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die

 

As I had said before, I am very happy with having a 12 second car already w/out touching the intake. Here is, I guess, my biggest motivation as I think I may have stated above: my buddy w/his cobra.

The specs are as follows: 1980 Cobra (KILLER paint job...mystic), 17" wheels, roll cage, 1993+ body pieces etc. Now for the mods:

331 stroker motor w/gt40 heads and intake (neither are ported), custom ground cam .500/.500 lift 220.5/233.4 dur. 110 LSA, 3.55 gears. 5 speed (soon to goto transmission heaven, as it was built to only handle about 385 hp).

He has me up top, and because of his h-rated tires vs. my drag radials, it's no contest down low...until he gets drag radials too. I know this thing runs...probably mid 12's right now (daddy spent 6k on his motor...I'm jealous!)

I don't know how I will fare against him w/my SuperRam put on, but I'm hoping for a mid 12 too. After the tranny goes, his dad is going to get him a new one, as well as later on getting a different intake and afr 195 heads. I don't think I have a chance in heck after that, but for now with both our setups...what do you guys think?

 

I was just wondering, but do you know what he runs in the quarter?

 

How the **** did you get into the high 12s/low 13s on a stock TPI? What kind of heads/cam are in it now? My mods are in my sig, and I'm running a 1.8 60' time. The best I pulled was a 13.8 at 95 MPH. Thanks.

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1984 Camaro Sport Coupe - Rebuilt 355 S/D TPI L98, Crane 2032 CompuCam, Crane adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD Blaster coil, custom burned PROM, stock TPI intake, Accel 24# injectors, gutted air box with K&N filters
F41 Suspension Package, 700R4 Tranny, TCI Breakaway torque converter, 3.27 Posi Rear
Hooker Shorty Headers, Catco High-Flow 3" Cat, Flowmaster 3" American Thunder Cat-Back

Best 1/4 Mile Run:
13.847 @ 95.91 MPH

1992 1LE B4C Police Camaro RS - 305 TPI 5-Speed

 

Whoops, I just saw that you said that he was probably running mid twelves. I missed that before(I guess it isnt just your first post).

 

the cam and heads are what come with a ZZ4. 208/221 494/510 I believe and aluminum L98 heads. I had the best luck with 16 lbs of pressure in the drag radials and I took out the k&n airfilters w/lots of practice for launching :0) It took FOREVER to get the best launch down. Those 3.73's really woke it up. When I had 2.73's and was running a 13.3, it wasn't nearly as diffacult to launch, and at the track when I got a 13.6 I had about 24/26 lbs of pressure in the tires, no stalling up/launching and tire spin w/out tranny mods.

 

If you're looking for a cheap effective way to get a half second from where you are w/o worrying about a year from now, i would...

-install the superram
-burn proms for it
-S10 torque converter (i know i said nothing comares to the vigilante...except the S10 for the price for a basic high torque combo like yours)

Then you can always take some down time later, get the heads ported and do a cam swap. Maybe a vigilante. Basically all thats stopping you at this point is your heads and how effectively your cam uses them. Thas why i said be carefl what you do, it's just as easy to not have a balanced set-up and run low 13s.

 

Go for the traction if at all possible. I dropped .4 seconds adding the Spohn Torque Arm and Tubular CAs.. Then dropped another .4 by adding the Vigilante torque conveter. I tend to agree on the fact that the Aluminum L98 heads aren't that great. I swithed to the Edelbrock 6085 heads on my 383 and have been greatly pleased. I have the LT4 HOT cam and even with a LTR, it still pulls to my rev limit at 5900. If you do put on the Super Ram, definitely change cams. the ZZ4 cam is way too small for anything except a stock LTR setup.

 

Yeah but to runa a 12.9 on a gtec with that set up he must be hooking really good already. If thats the case, don't change what's working. But if not, some LCA brackets are cheap. Get more from there

 

Kwik89GTA, what are your times. I was just curios. You said that you had LTR's. What what brand are they and what stall are you running.

Thanks

 

Ed or someone else: If I go with another cam, (like a comp cam), what else will I need to buy? Do you guys know of a specific cam I should get? I think this is where I need help the most. Also, does a 2500 stall Yank converter non lock up sound good for my setup?

 

It's not impossible. My best non-N2O time at the track, before I converted to carb, was a 13.1 at 98mph. The intake was stock, unported. Ported, cast, L98 heads. 22# injectors. ZZ-9 cam advanced 4 degrees. Heddman full length headers with 3" duals. 3.73s and 27.5x10.5 McCreary dirt track tires. No wheelspin whatsoever, and shifting at 5k.



[This message has been edited by Formula-91 (edited October 23, 2001).]

 

I already gave you my advice. If you just want to pick up some from where you are now, i'd put the SR on, get it tuned (burn PROMs) and put a cheap TC on. I don't know which yank you're talking about, but if it's not the small diameter one like the vigilante i wouldn't waste my time. Especially on a non-lock-up unit, converte clutch lock up is worth a few mpg and a lot of save heat in the tranny. The S10 converter can be had from just about anywhere for under $200, and i've heard of them stalling anywhere from 22-2400 behind stock 305s, to 3k+ behind SR strokers.
beyond that, if you are really intent on a cam swap, something like the comp XR w/ 218/224 would be ok for what you have now. Or the LT4 hot cam is actually prolly cheaper (218/228). You can't run much more cam than that with untouched vette heads, they aren't gonna effectively support the flow. Thats why i'm saying you have to really think everything through at the stage you're at. You can't just throw parts at a high 12 second car and hope it goes faster, you need a plan.

 

I just got some VERY interesting news. My buddy w/his Cobra got it dynoed and his power fell off severly at around 5200 rpm or so and he said it dynoed at 288 at the rear wheels and 370 tq at the rear wheels. I think the torque is killer, but the hp is severely down from what the engine builders said: They said it would be a 400-450 hp motor. I guess maybe even with traction, he wouldn't be able to catch me. When we raced to about 60, (him w/out traction though)he was very, very far behind me and I simply don't think he could have caught up no matter what. In a little car like a 1980 Cobra, and w/a 5-speed, 3.55 gears etc, what does that equal to in the 1/4? It won't be that way for long though...his dad is gonna get him those heads and intake still which should put him at 325 hp at the wheels. Grrrr...My fiance won't let me do much more to my IROC to make it faster either GRRRRRRR

 

I have a feeling that you dont make much HP at all, period. You're just making alot of torque (about as much as your friend maybe?) but you're planting it better than him, from a rolling start he eats you alive and thats with those puny numbers. So now you have your direction, since you obviously live life by 1/4 mile at a time then you need to adjust to the rules, TQ pulls stumps, HP wins races, you need more HP and you're going to get that by breathing, and opening up your runner volume, I'd say like everyone else has said, PUT ON THE SUPER RAM, I'd also say get some more duration, and start burning a prom or two. Then you'll be breathing well, open up the exhaust (maybe run some cut outs?) and say hello to some super low ET's.