what should this get me as far as the 1/4 goes?
10-24-2001, 11:33 PM
#1
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what should this get me as far as the 1/4 goes?
This has been bugging me ever since i built the 350, about a year and jhyalf ago. I never got to take it to the track before my wreck and it was parked. My T-5 blew last week and now im putting the old motor(in sig)with a 6 speed in the roc. with the 6 speed and 4.10's what kind of times should i be looking for? i ask this because i dont know if i will be able to finish it and take it to the track before they shut down for the season.
------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
10-25-2001, 11:23 AM
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Car: 1968 Camaro
Engine: 406
Transmission: Tremec TKO
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Get it done and take it to the track BEFORE you start claiming times. Nothing bugs me more than guys who say " I just got it running and it should run 12's."
Do you have the stock cast iron heads? My guess is that you will run way slower with the 6 speed and 4.10's than you would with the t-5 and a st of 3.42. Dump the 4.10. The TPI makes way too much torque as it is. Your torque multiplication will look like 3 x 4.1 x 300 estimated ft-lbs at launch = 3600 ft-lbs. Your old combo gave you 3.3 x 3.23 x 300=3200. Just as a point of reference, you want to keep your first gear x rear gear at aroud 9-10. Yours will be 12.3.
I think MPH is much more importnt than track times, and I think you might run anywhere from 98-101 probably at 14.3 with a lousy 60'.
------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Super T-10
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102
Do you have the stock cast iron heads? My guess is that you will run way slower with the 6 speed and 4.10's than you would with the t-5 and a st of 3.42. Dump the 4.10. The TPI makes way too much torque as it is. Your torque multiplication will look like 3 x 4.1 x 300 estimated ft-lbs at launch = 3600 ft-lbs. Your old combo gave you 3.3 x 3.23 x 300=3200. Just as a point of reference, you want to keep your first gear x rear gear at aroud 9-10. Yours will be 12.3.
I think MPH is much more importnt than track times, and I think you might run anywhere from 98-101 probably at 14.3 with a lousy 60'.
------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Super T-10
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102
10-25-2001, 11:57 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TPI Guy:
Get it done and take it to the track BEFORE you start claiming times. Nothing bugs me more than guys who say " I just got it running and it should run 12's."
Do you have the stock cast iron heads? My guess is that you will run way slower with the 6 speed and 4.10's than you would with the t-5 and a st of 3.42. Dump the 4.10. The TPI makes way too much torque as it is. Your torque multiplication will look like 3 x 4.1 x 300 estimated ft-lbs at launch = 3600 ft-lbs. Your old combo gave you 3.3 x 3.23 x 300=3200. Just as a point of reference, you want to keep your first gear x rear gear at aroud 9-10. Yours will be 12.3.</font>
Get it done and take it to the track BEFORE you start claiming times. Nothing bugs me more than guys who say " I just got it running and it should run 12's."
Do you have the stock cast iron heads? My guess is that you will run way slower with the 6 speed and 4.10's than you would with the t-5 and a st of 3.42. Dump the 4.10. The TPI makes way too much torque as it is. Your torque multiplication will look like 3 x 4.1 x 300 estimated ft-lbs at launch = 3600 ft-lbs. Your old combo gave you 3.3 x 3.23 x 300=3200. Just as a point of reference, you want to keep your first gear x rear gear at aroud 9-10. Yours will be 12.3.</font>
------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
10-25-2001, 12:05 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TPI Guy:
T Your torque multiplication will look like 3 x 4.1 x 300 estimated ft-lbs at launch = 3600 ft-lbsYours will be 12.3.
</font>
T Your torque multiplication will look like 3 x 4.1 x 300 estimated ft-lbs at launch = 3600 ft-lbsYours will be 12.3.
</font>
when i do the math i get 2.66 x 4.1 = 10.9 .weird i thought i was bad in math. 
i hate to be a jack@ss but, people should post logical/thought out replies not ones that just pop into your head with all kinds of numbers. 
let the flames begin.------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
10-25-2001, 02:26 PM
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Car: 1968 Camaro
Engine: 406
Transmission: Tremec TKO
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Well buddy, it depends on which t-56 you are gonna buy. You'll either get the 2.97 1st gear, advertised as the "aftermarket T-56" to retrofit 82-92 f-bodies. The three came from 6th grade math (I reference the method on rounding numbers) I'll let my website do the talking:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/BorgWarner/bwt56.html
Fortes does offer the 2.66 option:
http://www.fortesparts.com/tremec/t56.html
Your first gear/rear gear selection will still multiply your torque by about 11x. Which is much better than the previous 12.3. Another point of reference: I have a friend running a t-5 and a 3.23 (10.6 x)with drag radials with a small cam and a tpi 350, and if he doesn't feather it off the line, he'll spin through the 60'. There's some real world experience for you.
Maybe you don't understand the idea of torque multiplication. That is why cars have gears, to multiply torque. That's what the math is...
You said "I never got to take it to the track before my wreck and it was parked...i ask this because i dont know if i will be able to finish it and take it to the track before they shut down for the season."
So, you never once took it to the track. Now you are asking for track times so that you can go tell your freinds "TPI Guy says my car will run 11's." What else would you use this estimate for? I'm sorry, but this board cannot collectively vote your car into the mid 13's for you.
I still maintain that your car will slow down. The t-56 weighs about 50 lbs more than the t-5. Not to mention the frictional losses from spinning that 4.10 gear are greater in the rear. Another thought, the t-56 may not be as efficient as the t-5. To transfer more torque, engineers either increase the physical size of the transmission gears or they alter the angle at which the teeth interface. You have no doubt heard of the Muncie "Rock Crusher". Case in point. Altering the interface angle can increase strength but decrease efficiency and increase noise. Another example, the Ford 9". Very strong largely due to the angle of pinion interface, but very inefficient.
I think you are just angry because I said your car was going to be slower. You aren't doing any engine mods to make more power and you are adding weight while possibly decreasing efficiency. The gear spacing of the 2.66 might help you a little, but it's doubtful.
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/BorgWarner/bwt56.html
Fortes does offer the 2.66 option:
http://www.fortesparts.com/tremec/t56.html
Your first gear/rear gear selection will still multiply your torque by about 11x. Which is much better than the previous 12.3. Another point of reference: I have a friend running a t-5 and a 3.23 (10.6 x)with drag radials with a small cam and a tpi 350, and if he doesn't feather it off the line, he'll spin through the 60'. There's some real world experience for you.
Maybe you don't understand the idea of torque multiplication. That is why cars have gears, to multiply torque. That's what the math is...
You said "I never got to take it to the track before my wreck and it was parked...i ask this because i dont know if i will be able to finish it and take it to the track before they shut down for the season."
So, you never once took it to the track. Now you are asking for track times so that you can go tell your freinds "TPI Guy says my car will run 11's." What else would you use this estimate for? I'm sorry, but this board cannot collectively vote your car into the mid 13's for you.
I still maintain that your car will slow down. The t-56 weighs about 50 lbs more than the t-5. Not to mention the frictional losses from spinning that 4.10 gear are greater in the rear. Another thought, the t-56 may not be as efficient as the t-5. To transfer more torque, engineers either increase the physical size of the transmission gears or they alter the angle at which the teeth interface. You have no doubt heard of the Muncie "Rock Crusher". Case in point. Altering the interface angle can increase strength but decrease efficiency and increase noise. Another example, the Ford 9". Very strong largely due to the angle of pinion interface, but very inefficient.
I think you are just angry because I said your car was going to be slower. You aren't doing any engine mods to make more power and you are adding weight while possibly decreasing efficiency. The gear spacing of the 2.66 might help you a little, but it's doubtful.
10-25-2001, 03:37 PM
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"There's some real world experience for you.
Maybe you don't understand the idea of torque multiplication. That is why cars have gears, to multiply torque. That's what the math is..."
well hmm i guess you think that i am some 112 year old sitting in front of my computer right?
"So, you never once took it to the track. Now you are asking for track times so that you can go tell your freinds "TPI Guy says my car will run 11's." What else would you use this estimate for? I'm sorry, but this board cannot collectively vote your car into the mid 13's for you."
i have taken my car to the track several times just not when i had the 350 because of my work schedule.there are several people on this board who have almost the exact same engine setup as i do, therefore this question was posed towards them, not "TPI Guy" directly. if you cant give a straight out answer that you have from experience, then dont. do you think your *** because you chose the screen name TPI guy? i have wondered this since you started posting here about what a month ago?
As for slowing down, what do you say to the 4th gen guys who drive brand new ls1's off the showroom floor and imediately put 4.10's in them and drop 4-5 tenths? they must be slowing down right? yet thier times drop.
Maybe you don't understand the idea of torque multiplication. That is why cars have gears, to multiply torque. That's what the math is..."
well hmm i guess you think that i am some 112 year old sitting in front of my computer right?
"So, you never once took it to the track. Now you are asking for track times so that you can go tell your freinds "TPI Guy says my car will run 11's." What else would you use this estimate for? I'm sorry, but this board cannot collectively vote your car into the mid 13's for you."
i have taken my car to the track several times just not when i had the 350 because of my work schedule.there are several people on this board who have almost the exact same engine setup as i do, therefore this question was posed towards them, not "TPI Guy" directly. if you cant give a straight out answer that you have from experience, then dont. do you think your *** because you chose the screen name TPI guy? i have wondered this since you started posting here about what a month ago?
As for slowing down, what do you say to the 4th gen guys who drive brand new ls1's off the showroom floor and imediately put 4.10's in them and drop 4-5 tenths? they must be slowing down right? yet thier times drop.
10-25-2001, 05:20 PM
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Car: 1968 Camaro
Engine: 406
Transmission: Tremec TKO
Axle/Gears: 3.42
I am going to reference the Car Craft Article
2.78 vs. 3.55 vs. 4.11. They put a bunch of different gear in an Orange duster.
When they went from 3.55 to 4.11, the car got SLOWER. Slower means less MPH. I'm gonna make this really easy for you. 101 mph is slower than 102 mph. 13.9 is QUICKER than 14.0.
The difference between the ls1 4th gens and tpi's is the broad torque band. 4th gen's may very well get quicker with the addition of slicks because the gears get them into the power band a little faster. Their primary power band may range from 4500-6500 (don't quote me), so the addition of 4.10 shortens the track distance that they spend under 4500 rpm in first gear. They very well might be quicker with a set of slicks, but I doubt they go much faster, and I have my money on them actually getting slower. By the way, do you know what gear ratio comes stock in the t-56 equipped ls1's? If the cars ran 3 mph's faster and .3 seconds quicker with 4.10's, don't you think they would just put those in? I mean, hey, they're selling a performance car.
I am assumming you have a TPI. Your powerband may be from 3800-5200 with a substantial amount of torque off idle until 3500 rpm. Because of the broad torque band, TPI's typically show little to no improvement when changing to a drastically deep gear (4.10s +), but most TPI equipped cars are running a 3.06 and numerically higher first gear ratio. You, with your 2.66 1st, may be an exception.
As for you watching my posts, are you like the message board equivalent of a peeping Tom or somehing. You gotta chill, I'm not trying to insult you, but you are obviously trying to insult me.
2.78 vs. 3.55 vs. 4.11. They put a bunch of different gear in an Orange duster.
When they went from 3.55 to 4.11, the car got SLOWER. Slower means less MPH. I'm gonna make this really easy for you. 101 mph is slower than 102 mph. 13.9 is QUICKER than 14.0.
The difference between the ls1 4th gens and tpi's is the broad torque band. 4th gen's may very well get quicker with the addition of slicks because the gears get them into the power band a little faster. Their primary power band may range from 4500-6500 (don't quote me), so the addition of 4.10 shortens the track distance that they spend under 4500 rpm in first gear. They very well might be quicker with a set of slicks, but I doubt they go much faster, and I have my money on them actually getting slower. By the way, do you know what gear ratio comes stock in the t-56 equipped ls1's? If the cars ran 3 mph's faster and .3 seconds quicker with 4.10's, don't you think they would just put those in? I mean, hey, they're selling a performance car.
I am assumming you have a TPI. Your powerband may be from 3800-5200 with a substantial amount of torque off idle until 3500 rpm. Because of the broad torque band, TPI's typically show little to no improvement when changing to a drastically deep gear (4.10s +), but most TPI equipped cars are running a 3.06 and numerically higher first gear ratio. You, with your 2.66 1st, may be an exception.
As for you watching my posts, are you like the message board equivalent of a peeping Tom or somehing. You gotta chill, I'm not trying to insult you, but you are obviously trying to insult me.
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10-25-2001, 06:42 PM
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nah im not watching your posts, i said that i had read some of your other post before this. you shouldnt act like people are retarded, by talking down towards them (ex: 101 mph is slower than 102 mph). as for the magazines, i trust their times as far as i can throw them. not much. alot of people on here have a 6 speed and 3.73's and they go through the traps in 3rd gear, this i dont want to do.i dont care what you say about the 4.10's, i am still going to get them. now if you own a tpi car with a similar setup to mine, please post your times.
------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
10-26-2001, 07:39 AM
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Car: 1968 Camaro
Engine: 406
Transmission: Tremec TKO
Axle/Gears: 3.42
I am going to post this one for reference because, admittedly, I was wrong in my previous post:
"Axle Gear Shootout"
2.76 vs. 3.55 vs. 4.30
July 2000
2.76 60' 1/4 et 1/4 mph
2.28 14.53 99.13
3.55
2.03 13.88 98.19
4.30
2.03 13.82 101.4
I was incorrect in my earlier post, but these numbers have a little asterisk by them. They were performed multiple times, and the best number was taken from the total number of runs. This means that the car did not run 13.82@101.4. It may have made one pass at 13.82@99 and then ran again with the terrible wheelspin and ran a 14.3@101.4. Also, the tests for the 4.30 gear happened much later in the day than, with cooler weather. Anyways, if you want to take this article prima facia, it supports your arguement fairly well. For some more concrete answers, you'll get a lot more info on the suspension board.
"Axle Gear Shootout"
2.76 vs. 3.55 vs. 4.30
July 2000
2.76 60' 1/4 et 1/4 mph
2.28 14.53 99.13
3.55
2.03 13.88 98.19
4.30
2.03 13.82 101.4
I was incorrect in my earlier post, but these numbers have a little asterisk by them. They were performed multiple times, and the best number was taken from the total number of runs. This means that the car did not run 13.82@101.4. It may have made one pass at 13.82@99 and then ran again with the terrible wheelspin and ran a 14.3@101.4. Also, the tests for the 4.30 gear happened much later in the day than, with cooler weather. Anyways, if you want to take this article prima facia, it supports your arguement fairly well. For some more concrete answers, you'll get a lot more info on the suspension board.
10-26-2001, 10:43 AM
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Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 427 LSX
Transmission: Turbo 400
I actually ran slower with 3.73 gears installed. My 60 foots were identical. 14.001 (3.23) @ 100.5. and 14.05 (3.73)@ 99.1. Does this make you want 4.10's. Since my mph decreased, my car was actually slower. Everything on my sig was the same except for the rockers and heads, which were both stock. If you want increased driveline wear and slower trap speeds (1/4 mile, 1/8 no comment) buy the 4.10s. Plus if your car makes decent power you might be able to shift into fifth in the 1/4. Shifting five times has to be faster, right?
------------------
1991 Firebird
350 L98 (was a 305 TBI),T-5,Edelbrock TES and cat back,Accel manifold
NOS,subframes,jegster torque arm,MSD Digital 6
AFPR,Lakewood lcas
Hurst linelock,SLP cam (206 212 .480 .486),relocated battery,cold air,Hypertech chip,centerforce df,clutch
poly bushings and mounts
AFR 190s
Harland sharp 1.5 rockers
autopower rollbar
12.33 @ 114.83 juiced uncorrected
13.510 @ 102 non juiced uncorrected
------------------
1991 Firebird
350 L98 (was a 305 TBI),T-5,Edelbrock TES and cat back,Accel manifold
NOS,subframes,jegster torque arm,MSD Digital 6
AFPR,Lakewood lcas
Hurst linelock,SLP cam (206 212 .480 .486),relocated battery,cold air,Hypertech chip,centerforce df,clutch
poly bushings and mounts
AFR 190s
Harland sharp 1.5 rockers
autopower rollbar
12.33 @ 114.83 juiced uncorrected
13.510 @ 102 non juiced uncorrected
10-26-2001, 10:45 AM
#11
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Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 427 LSX
Transmission: Turbo 400
Screamin: If if were a moderator I would site you for excessive smilie face use.
Save you gear money and buy some stuff to make hp.
Save you gear money and buy some stuff to make hp.
10-26-2001, 10:49 AM
#12
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Car: 1991 Firebird
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wait, are you putting in a 305?? and if so, why oh why? if you are going 305 then the effect of the 4.10s will be similar yet less pronounced
10-26-2001, 07:47 PM
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no i am not going to put in the 305, i said in my posts above that i was going with the 350 in my sig. TPI Guy, im sorry for acting like an *** earlier, i have been extrememly stressed this week between school and trying to get my motor/tranny swap done. i am still going to take a risk and put the 4.10's in and i guess i just see how much it slows me down.
Gofaster: thats is ecactly why you arent a moderator
lol
------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
Gofaster: thats is ecactly why you arent a moderator
lol------------------
Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's
http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com
10-26-2001, 11:13 PM
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4.10s = slower car. 4.10s are used in vehicles typically with taller tires which helps offset the steepness of the gears. a TPI motor will run out of breath really fast with these gears. the LT-1 six speed setups from GM came with 3.42s.
keep the gears reasonable and buy more breathability with intake/ exhaust upgrades since you mention only ported plenum and sounds like single 3" exhust.
keep the gears reasonable and buy more breathability with intake/ exhaust upgrades since you mention only ported plenum and sounds like single 3" exhust.
10-27-2001, 10:37 AM
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Car: 1989 TTA #1240
Engine: 3.8 SFI turbo
Transmission: 2004r
Axle/Gears: 3.27
4.10's with ann ltr setup will hurt you.wat nobody failed to mention is the power band of the engine tpi makes peak power at 4800-5200 so if you are going throughthe lights at 5500 you are not pulling through them just barely hanging on.the reason ls1's an to a bigger extent lt1's times drop with 4.10's is the manifold can support power at 5800 like the tpi cannot.go wthh 3.73's they are a better performance gear for tpi.
------------------
87 trans am,gm crate 350(4 bolt mains 10to1),L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,slp 1 5/8 headers,3in.y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,afpr,as&m ported plenum,gutted airbox,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt(11.9in. brakes),ed wright's fastchip,relocated iat sensor,160 fan switch&t-stat,tb bypass,accel supercoil,cap& rotor,slp 3in. catbcak,a/c delete.
SHE IS GONE BUT I KNOW THE GUY WILL GIVE HER A GOOD HOME.
best e/t:
3653lbs./full tank+ driver.
14.10@96.53mph 2.01 60'
------------------
87 trans am,gm crate 350(4 bolt mains 10to1),L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,slp 1 5/8 headers,3in.y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,afpr,as&m ported plenum,gutted airbox,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt(11.9in. brakes),ed wright's fastchip,relocated iat sensor,160 fan switch&t-stat,tb bypass,accel supercoil,cap& rotor,slp 3in. catbcak,a/c delete.
SHE IS GONE BUT I KNOW THE GUY WILL GIVE HER A GOOD HOME.
best e/t:
3653lbs./full tank+ driver.
14.10@96.53mph 2.01 60'
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RedLeader289
Tech / General Engine
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05-28-2019 01:47 PM