i have an 89 firebird formula 350 and when the car warms up and i shut it off, try and restart it it wont it just floods out. if you keep trying to crank it it will just continue to flood.... the only way to restart it is to let it sit for about 15 minutes and then it will start.... however if it is warm and you get in and turn the key as fast as possible "as not to let any additional feul be sprayed" it will start most of the time... another problem is that when you flood it it does not let you unflood the motor by pressing the pedal to the floor if you do it only gives more fuel and noticably bogs the motor down adding to your problem... now here is the kicker.... onece you get it started the car runs so perfectly no studers no loss of power just as perfect as you could ask.... it just has this weird starting thing.... i replaced the fuel pump. new ecm. new tps. the only thing is i have not replaced is the chip. could this possible be it since it controlls the cold start settings? any info would be a great help.... thanks.....

 

3 words... in jec tors

 

well thats great but how can the injectors work so perfect after its started. and also if the motor is cold it always starts.

thanks...

 

Simple. After the injector warms up, it grounds out. Since all injectors share ground, all the power to fire the other 7 injectors go to ground instead of firing the injectors properly. I know, this problem baffled me for weeks. GM Tech aka Bernard figured it out for me after an entire day of troubleshooting.
My car would not start after it warmed up.


------------------
Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

may also be you just need a new cap and rotor. this has happened to me twice since i got my car. it had a crappy aluminum terminals and it oxidized. the car wouldnt run when it was hot at all. did the same thing you just described. well i put another new aluminum cap in cause i thought i was gona put an MSD in this summer but turned out i never did. so last week the same crap happened again, no start when it was hot. so i went out, got a brass cap and rotor for $33, put it on an now absolutly no problems. give it a shot before you tear into your injectors.

 

well if its my injectors is it possible to run so well when hot or cold just not to start....

and do i just need to replace my injectors or anything else.....

and about the cap and rotor. mine runs fine it just dosnt start....

did your do that?

thanks

 

All the injectors share the same + line too,
and there is no cold start in 89. They all
fire at the same time.

How hot is the motor getting? Have you tried
pulling the ducting off the MAF and cranking it? have you tried unplugging the MAF?

-- Joe

 

when you pull the maf it shuts off....

basically if it has not set for at least 15 minutes it will not start meaning if their is any left over fuel in the tpi it will flood.

or you can trick it by switching the ingnition so fast that it cant send fuel in fast enough to flood it....

the problem is when you try to start it like normal meaning put the key in turn it forward slowly and start like you would normally do in any car....

ive learned to trick it by putting the key in and thrusting the key forward as fast as i can so that the motor will start turning before it starts pumping feul in thats the only way to start it if it has any remnant feul in it....

basicaly it just pumps fuel in like its really cold ie choking it but pays no attention to the fact that its not cold or warm. and their is no way to pump the pedal to the floor and unflood it....

 

thats what they were saying about the ground/short on the injector.
if one is grounded then they all are grounded and so they all are open and when they are open if you turn the ignition on the fuel pump comes on and it then begins to flow fuel into the cylinders, thats why "tricking it" by just turning it and starting it real fast instead of sittin at the "on" position works. the fuel pump doesn't have time to pump fuel into the cylinders
Andrew

 

so is that something i could fix with the injectors or do i need to replace them all?

could i take my multi meter and check them somehow to see if that is indeed the problem....?

that would explain why i cant get it to unflood by depressing the pedal.....


thanks

 

ohh yea also if my injectors are bad.....

why does it run so good after it starts?

thanks

 

Well air I will have to agree with everyone here that you have leaking injectors. well i sorta have the same problem but, not to the same extent. overnight cold crank it over no problem. when it's hot crank let the fuel pump energize and crank it. it takes about 5 to 7 cranks. and it does run good after i get it started. well if i do the quick igntion start thing it starts right up. looks like i need some new injectors but i haven't had the time to do it yet.

------------------
86',88',89' IROC-Z, 350 TPI, 700-R4

94' Formula, LT1, 6spd

 

so all i have to do is by injectors?

what kind are the best i have a cam and some other internal stuff. who make the best?

 

Instead of buying replacements, you could send your set to Cruzin' Performance for cleaning, flow-matching, and repair. Your stock Bosch injectors are probably the best for your application. Stay away from Multecs and especially the Lucas/CAV injectors on your engine. Since the aftermarkets are using mostly Bosch injectors, that should tell you something.

I'm guessing you have a sticking/leaking injector, not necessarily and electrical problem with the injector harness, While it is possible to have the wiring problem, it is much more likely (and common) to have a stuck/leaking injector.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited October 14, 2001).]

 

ohh ok so it could be leaking just a little enough to flood it but after it cranks not enough to effect idel or performance....

i c

can i just go out and buy some injectors instead of getting mine cleaned?

ones that are just as good....

thanks

 

ohh yea and is their any way to test if it is a leaking injector?

 

most machine shops have injector pressure and flow testers. my guess is that you have one, maybe two injectors that won't hold pressure. the reason it starts fine when cold is probably because the injectors haven't recently been under pressure. overnight the gas drains into the oil pan and your engine doesn't even recognize the leak. when it's started, it runs fine because injectors are constantly firing when it's running, therefor, the most it's leaking is a drop between sprays. hardly enough to throw it off. replace only the ones that are bad. that is unless you need higher pressure injectors for more performance related applications. i'd recommend Ford SVO 24# or maybe some Accels. Accels run about $240 for the set.

------------------
86 305 TPI
700R4
3:42 axle
4 wheel disc
-Summit cam .442" lift
-Summit chain/roller
-Summit tranny cooler
-WORLD S/R Torquer 305 heads w/ LT1 springs
-High pressure oil pump
-Hypertech Airfoil
-SLP 1 5/8" headers
-CatCo cat.
-Flowmaster 80 series c/b
-Taylor Spiro-Pro 8mm
-Bosch Plat. plugs "hot"
-Indexed plugs
-K&N Air filters
-Trans-Go shift kit
-Removed AIR
-180 Thermostat
-T/B coolant Bypass
-All sensors replaced
-Custom Ram-Air
-Poly motor mounts
-Manual fan switch
-Newly Lowered!!!
Eibach Sportlines.

soon...
125 shot, slp runners, perf. chip, ported plenum
https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index.tgo?action=view&rideid=6820.

 

dude, CHANGE YOUR CAP AND ROTOR. my car was doing the exact same thing as yours. wouldnt start when it was hot. everything came on when i turned the key, fuel pump, starter cranked, etc. it just wouldnt catch. eventually it flooded itself and i had to wait for it to cool all the way down before it started. changed the cap and rotor, started right up. trust me for $33 bucks it cant hurt to try it before you spend $200+ on injector service and thats not including taking them out and putting them in.

 

I had the same problem in my 89 I-ROC. After three week of trouble shooting I found the problem, the computer!!!! I let the car warm up then shut off the car. When trying to restart the car I hosed the computer with electronics cooler, and the car would start up. I didn't want to change the computer if it was not the problem so I touch the car to the shop and they confirmed the problem was the computer. Replaced the computer and haven't had a problem.

------------------
Now I HAVE_A_Z
89 IROC 350 TPI

 

well this is the 3rd computer thats been in their since and its allways done the samething. but i have not changed the chip and am wondering if this could also be a problem...

but the fact that you cant put it into the unflood mode by depressing the pedal to the floor make me wonder if i have leaky injectors....

also is thier anyway to check the injectors to see if thier leaking?

 

remove the plenum and runners, unscrew the 4 bolts holding down the fuel rails, use a 3/4" open end wrench and lightly pry between the manifold and the lip of the injector. should pop out. raise the fuel rail and injectors to where you can see the bottoms. turn your ignition on, don't start. you'll see if they hold pressure or not.

------------------
86 305 TPI
700R4
3:42 axle
4 wheel disc
-Summit cam .442" lift
-Summit chain/roller
-Summit tranny cooler
-WORLD S/R Torquer 305 heads w/ LT1 springs
-High pressure oil pump
-Hypertech Airfoil
-SLP 1 5/8" headers
-CatCo cat.
-Flowmaster 80 series c/b
-Taylor Spiro-Pro 8mm
-Bosch Plat. plugs "hot"
-Indexed plugs
-K&N Air filters
-Trans-Go shift kit
-Removed AIR
-180 Thermostat
-T/B coolant Bypass
-All sensors replaced
-Custom Ram-Air
-Poly motor mounts
-Manual fan switch
-Newly Lowered!!!
Eibach Sportlines.

soon...
125 shot, slp runners, perf. chip, ported plenum
https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index.tgo?action=view&rideid=6820.

 

lets hope it isn't the computer. if it's the third one, and it's bad... something else internally is wrong causing it to foul. cap and rotor i guess is possible, just sounds more severe than a tune-up.

 

early injectors were notorious for doing this my 89 did the same thing three injectors checked out bad with an ohm meter

 

I have basically the same prob. trying to start hot. I tried to check my injectors the way Yellowiroc said. I primed the fuel pump 4 or 5 times, and the injectors hardly even seeped anything onto some paper towel after about 5 mins. does priming the pump like this build enough pressure, or do you have to wire the relay fully on?

------------------
88 Trans Am 305 Auto Red/Silver, MSD coil,wires, ported plenum, gutted airbox, TB bypass, comp cams XR258HR, 206/212 @ 50 .480/.487 110 LSA everything else stock

 

any thoughs on a defective coolant temp sensor??? I have seen similar problems that were related to this... it was sending a signal that it was like -40*f...

zroc

 

If you already have a new computer in there I don’t think that will be the problem. One more symptom with my car was that even if you turned the car off and then right back on it would not restart. Injectors don’t leekdown that fast. If you have access to a scan tool check out the coolant temp sensor.

------------------
Now I HAVE_A_Z
89 IROC 350 TPI

 

Needaz you bring up a good point...

that is exactly how my car does you can be running for 20 minutes cut the car off and instantly try to restart and it wont... it will flood... is it possible for the injectors to leak that fast?

and could it be my temp sensor i have not replaced that?

 

I'd test your ohms on the injectors hot and cold.

 

could it possible be the chip? cause i havent replaced it yet...

 

I guess it could be the chip. Go to Rip off Shack (Radio Shack) and get some electronic freeze spray. Go for you 20 minute ride and try to restart the car. If car just cranks hit the chip with the freeze spray. If the car restarts there is your problem.

 

well the only thing about cooling the ecm is that even if you crank the car for 2 seconds and shut it off the car still want start.

i dont see how the ecm could heat up in 2 seconds to where it would cause enough problems as to not start.

basicall once the car starts running for any amount of time long or short it will not start if turned off unless you leave the car for 15 minutes or so.

 

ok now here is a new twist now it dosnt want to start at all i just have to keep trying every 15 minutes untile it will start.

man what is wrong with this thing?

anyone know an absolute athority on tpi?

i need help bad.

still though when it finaly cranks it runs great.

 

I know this is a TPI board...but maybe you guys could help. I have the same problem with my '83 TA. I have a 350 dropped in with a holley carb. I definitely need it to be tuned up, but I doubt that is the problem. My car is running a little rich. Well...it will start up fine right cold...but revs really high...and take a minute or two to rev normal. Then after I go to a store...and come out whether it be 15 minutes or 4 hours...my car doesnt fire up right away. It takes a few attempts and I am worried that I am going to like let it crank too much or flood the carb. This is my first car and so far these are the worst problems I am seeing so far, besides the electrical I just got done. Please somebody help.

James

 

DUDE! Leaking injectors..... Get the 24# Accels for $230 from Jeg's....

 

you need new injectors. no way around it. when they warm up, the resistance will increase, causing the injectors to stay open longer. it will be fine until you shut it off and try to restart. they will dump fuel when you try and crank it. this is what rich at cruzin performance told me, i had the same problem you are having. i bought new injectors and i havent had the problem since for 4 months. just get the accel injectors or SVO injectors from summit or jegs.

 

New to the forum...hey all. From what I have read it seems injectors are the solution most of the time. Unfortunately I have the same problem,the car sat for 7 years at a Chevy dealer and are not holding pressure. A new o-ring gasket set may be a good/cheap place to start.
What I'm wondering is if installing a remote starter solenoid(hot start article in the tech area) will actually enable the car to start. Also,does anyone have any info on the 22/lb injectors which are constantly for sale on eBay for $80/set are any good?

------------------
*1989 IROC Z(White)
>305 TPI/700R4
>Flowmaster 3" Catback
>K&N Filters
>50k miles

 

A remote starter won't help. It'll just crank forever. I had this problem and a remote starter so I know from experience. I thought it was valve seals so I changed those and it didn't fix the problem but it did remedy the code (rich exhaust). After a head swap, new temp. sending unit, O2 sensor, oil pump, GM starter, and a cold start sensor, it fires right up all the time. I know people have denied it being valve guides but i believe it's possible. I did nothing to the injectors. The solution to your problem is limited to the parts i replaced. PERIOD.

 

when i had a remote starter on my alarm it started all the time whats up with that if it wouldnt start with the key all i had to do was hit the remote starter. and it would fire up.

I thought it was just the fact that it started so fast that it couldnt dump the extra feul fast enough so it started is that not what it was doing ? or is it somthing else that the auto starter bypasses?

 

i don't see how a remote start would fix the problem. all it does is ground the starter. if you still had it, i'm almost positive it wouldn't work. check the temperature sending unit. might seem small, but very possible.

 

would you guys please try a new cap and rotor? seriously id put $ down that is the problem.

 

First off, to see if injectors are leaking I have beeen told to turn off the car and put on a pressure gage (schrader valve on fuel rail) see if pressure holds. If pressure drops , you probably have a leaky injector(s)

I have same problem as you and I am in process of buying new injectors. I have heard really good things about SVO (Ford) injectors. They are cheap and work excellent. They are also supposed to use same connectors so they will work good with our cars.

My $0.02

------------------
1986 IROC
LB9 305 TPI
Speed Pro forged pistons
Accel HEI Distributer
Cam & Crank from 96 Vette
Dynomax muffler
No cat

 

Ok guys i fixed it....

heres what it was......

well the remote starter gave me an idea...

i figured that the only thing the remote starter did different then me was that it gave it own power to the ignition and starter... so as an experiment i ran a seperate power wire to my batter and then tapped my ignition and what do you know fired right up and over and over and over again..... so i ran the wire back and it had some splices from old alarms solderd them back instead of but connects helped tremendosly but didnt quit do it as good as seperate power wire... so it must be a bad connection under the hood somewhere where ever it gets power for the ignition at.

so all i have to do is fix that wire and im back in buisness.....

worse case if i cant find it under the hood i can always tap it with a relay and use the 12v to turn the relay on to give it the better power source....

what it was doing is during start it was dropping from 12v to 9and half volts and it wont start that way keep the ignition system above 10v and it starts great.

so if any of you guys knows where the ignition system gets its power that would be of great help ......

but thank you all for your help.....

couldnt have done it without you......

[This message has been edited by AudioDEO (edited October 30, 2001).]

 

My 89 does the same thing!

I think your problem, as well as mine, is injector leak down as people on here are sggesting.

It makes sense if you think about it. Further, I have an Accell Fuel PRessure Gauge installed on my L98 and the fuel pressure drops to zero within several MINUTES. All signs point to injector leak down.

That is why in my sign I have listed as future mods "Accell 24# fuel injectors." How hard are these to install? Looks, like you have to take lots of things off to ge to the fuel rail.

------------------
1989 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
L98 - 350c.i. TPI, rebuilt 700R4 auto w/shift kit, Dual catalyst Monza PaceSetter Cat-Back, SLP 1 5/8 Coated Headers, 3.23 Posi rear, Hypertech Thermomaster chip with 160stat, MSD 6A, March Under-Drive pulleys, AFPR, K&N's, !Air Box w/ Ram Air, moddified MAF, !TB Coolant, Spohn Dual Cat SubFrame Connectors, Alarm, Keyless entry, remote starter, 92 Z28 AeroWing, Brand New Paint (6/21/01)

Future: ZZ4 TPI w/EGR, T56, 3.42 or 3.73, Spohn strut tower brace and LCA's, Accell Universal 24# injectors

More info and pics on my webpage:http://go.to/iroc-z

AOL IMer: GPA 0point0

 

Also,

Vader mentioned, "why buy a new set when you can send your existing ones to cruizin performance."

Is getting them cleaned/flow matched/repaired by them going to ensure that they won't leak again? If they are leaking, aren't they shot permanently???

 

dude.... hello, he said he fixed it.

AudioDEO, I'm surprised you weren't able to tell it wasn't cranking as hard without the necessary power.
Either way, glad to hear you fixed it. Wiring just plain sucks!

 

i think the main problem is that the ecm is not getting enough power when the voltage drops down that low because the ecm gets its power directly from the ignition wire.
right were its fused ...

i think it just couldnt control everything properly.

and yet it still was flooding cause it would send the fuel but couldnt control the spark and all the other stuff to start.

 

I have the same problem after installing an aftermarket prom chip.After it is warm It will not restart, my inj are new. I install the old chip when warm and it cranks right up, put the new chip in and it will not. Whats up with that?