Thought that I would post this for info sake.......

I'll be goin to the Chassis dyno next Monday June 2nd......It's a MD-1750-IMPORTDyne-DE able to test 1/4 mile times as well as HP/Tq.

I think that I've exhausted my bolt on options and it's time to crack open the top end. (See Signature)

With that being said I'm gonna get a baseline first before I start changing the intake, cam and heads.

We'll see what kind of #'s it puts down....... Any guesses?
For arguements sake I'm gonna GTech Pro it the night before as well (a friend of mine has one, but I've never used it yet.)

I'll use this post to keep a record of the progress I guess.......
I think that it's helpful on a message board like this.....!

 

The exhaust is your biggest horsepower improvement. I will say 255rwhp. That will depend on your tune.

 

I hope I hit 255rwhp to be honest with you, I'm pretty realistic when it comes to these things. I know that my GTA was supposed to have 245 rwhp from the factory..... but they (factory #'s) are often high.

Some cars are tend to be quick from the factory and others are slower..... I think I got the slower cause I'm often unsatisfied heheh

We'll soon see......

 

Well I'm a little disappointed because it didn't throw down the kind of #'s I thought it would....... Picked up 25 ft/lbs of Tq with a fuel pressure change though.
I'll post a "youtube" page later, if you want to see the video...

 

Strange you made your max power at only 3700rpm


Guess its time for your other goodies

 

I know....!!!!! Sounds messed up don't you think???

I got worse results with my friends GTech Pro tonite??????

I mean, it doesn't feel bad........., ya gotta believe me!!!!!!

 

Mustang Dyno is going to give lower results than a Dynojet, usually by around 10% or more depending on all other factors

Figure on a dynojet you'd probably be about 220rwhp, that's right where I figured you'd come in at (oh, and the factory ratings are flywheel hp, not rwhp, and for 1989 I believe the flywheel hp rating was 220...so if you hit that on a dynojet, you know that your mods are definitely helping you...)

 

Yeah but his peak should be closer to 4500rpm

what are your times with the G-Tech?

 

As sad is it sounds that is almost right on the money to what I would have guessed. That is actually not terrible numbers though. Through an automatic trans you can usually expect to see a 20 to 25% loss of power through the driveline. That would put you right around the 250 hp mark at the flywheel which is what I would expect out of a l98 with your bolt on mods. Bolt on those heads and intake and you should be at around the 280 to 300 rwhp mark with around 370 lb/ft I would guess which I'm sure will put a smill on your face!

Nice to see a fellow Winnipegger here!

 

My #'s with the G-Tech were anywhere between 145-155 Hp.........???!!!! That's after 6-7 runs!!!!

Man, now that's depressing!!!!

I honestly don't think that we were doing it right. Besides I was on the lookout for Cops

here's the link for the YouTube page with the Dyno Pull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpaCjW9-Ktw

Any Ideas why the peak Hp would be that low? Looked like we were picking up the proper RPM. Would the MSD cause problems like it does with our Tachs?

 

hey GTA Sammy, what was your fuel pressure and what did you change it to? whats your timing set at? nice car

 

I had it set at 47lbs...... we just gave it a turn or 2 so I'm not sure what the pressure was set at for the 2nd pull. We turned it up another turn for the 3rd pull and lost power. I was hoping for 200rwhp at that point!!!!

My timing is set at stock, I've never played with it at all...... so 6* I guess.

Thanks for the compliment

 

doesnt seem right, i'd figure you be in the 230whp range. on a dyno jet that is. Mustang dyno would be more like 210-220 i think

but peak should be 4200-4400 rpms..not 3700

doesnt sound like its in top running condition. Play with timing and bump fuel back down to 44-46 psi. check for other problems. 198 aint bad on a mustang dyno but i just would have expected abit more power out of that. My l98 liked 8 degrees base timing with stock fuel pressure.

what was the air fuel ratios on those runs?

 

Unfortunately I don't know what the A/F ratio was, I wasn't datalogging it......
I guess the operator could have put a sniffer in the exhaust pipe but we weren't looking to tune it...... just get a baseline.....

My y-pipe is crushed/flattened somewhat, that may have been a problem......?

Everything else (ignition, wires, cap/rotor, plugs,) is pretty much new (within 10,000 Km/6,000Mi)

 

What size injectors are you running? If you are using bigger injectors without the proper tune it could be running rich will hurt your numbers. Also, do you still have the factory prom? You should try taking out the ADS chip and using the factory prom. I know the off the shelf chips will typically advance the timing curve but run extremely rich to be on the safe side. No chip manufacture wants to lean out your motor and blow it up and have you come back at them. That's just a thought.

Are you also sure that all your injectors are working properly? Typically having to bump your fuel pressure to make more power is a bandage for undersized or improperly working injectors.

 

I believe that the injectors are 24lbs, I bought them 12 years ago... So I can't be positive, but I'm sure that I upgraded them somewhat....
I still do have the original chip. I guess I could put it in but the insurance expires tomorrow nite and I'm not goin back to the dyno till after the top end rebuild.
Do you have any idea where you would get injectors inspected around here?

 

I would think either Walls or Motion would be the best bet to have your injectors tested. I'm not totally sure if that's your problem but it's a start! If they aren't working properly that could also why it made peak power at a low 3700. To be honest with you, it's an educated guess but worth looking into!

 

I wouldn't have anything checked at Motion...... just my 2 cents

 

send them to

http://www.cruzinperformance.com/

nothing but goood things from there. All positive feedback i've heard

 

I may have missed it but I did not see where you had your car retuned after the mods. That can account for a lot of horsepower especially with the long tubes and upgraded exhuast. I think you need to get that done and then put the car back on the dyno.

Then again if you are going to put on the AFR heads, HSR and cam soon then you might want to wait until you those items installed before the tune.

 

if you got your own chip burning stuff and knew the current air/fuel, i could send you a few bins that did ok on my L98 and we could see what they would do on yours.

But i'd just shoot for the future mods soon as you can, much more fun that way

 

Here's run #2 ........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNLSu-DNOs

 

1989GTATransAm- this was the first time that I ever had the car at the dyno. I figured that I would see how far I had brought it before I opened it up..... So I've never done any tuning before

Once I get all the other goodies in I'll be bringing it to the dyno shop again. I guess I should get some data logging equipment in the meantime. (but I've been afraid to start chip burning etc) It looks like I have come to the point where I have to start doing some computer stuff though, oh yeah and learn how to weld (for my Y-Pipe)

 

Yep to get the most out of the combination you will need a custom tune. Otherwise you are leaving a lot of power on the table. I would start researching on how to get that done as part of the build.

 

basic tuning for bolt on MAF cars is EASY. trust me

 

Umm....how come no one caught this?? No HP is rated at the wheels by the vehicle manufacture.

They rate at the FLY WHEEL and only there

 

Wow the semantics abound......

Sorry, the factory states that the 5.7L GTA had 240Hp and 345tq. Which AS WE ALL KNOW, IS MEASURED FROM THE FLYWHEEL (WITH ACCESSORIES).As stated earlier......post # 7

I was hoping to have at least that much at the wheels...... and maybe a tad more with all of the bolt ons I've added throughout the years. Some would say that I've broke even considering the 20-25% losses though the drive train ie:Tranny and rear end.

Oh well......... it just goes to show you that you have to be pretty on the ball and watch all of your "P's and Q's" before you hit send or else the editorial police might come out to rear their superior minds and show us all how dumb we are??????

Thanks to all of you that visit this board to help others.......

 

Sammy,

I know we're just picking nits here, but does your car have the dual cat exhaust? Just an FYI- for 1989, if it has single cat exhaust, the car was rated 225 hp flywheel. If dual, it was rated 235hp. The 240hp rating was not achieved until 1991.

I get the feeling you are very hung up on the numbers of the dyno (which is not unusual....but keep in mind, the dyno is merely a tuning tool, and varying conditions can cause varying results).

The real test of performance and mod-effects is the track. Have you ever run it in the 1/4 mile? If you have a track close, get yourself some drag radials and take it for a few passes. If you're in the low 14s to high 13s range, rest assured your mods are worth the money you spent on them.

 

My car made 250 wrh with the same mods you have. Something is wrong here.

 

Sorry guys if I'm a little testy...... I threw a disc in my lower back the day before this dyno test and it's still killing me!!!! 8 days later....

I know I shouldn't be too concerned with #'s......
and I know that I'm just splitting hairs, I know....! I shouldn't be too concerned with dyno numbers, but somethings not right.....

The only time I was at the track I ran a 15.54 ET !!!! @90.33 MPH!!!

In my defence it was the first time at the track......
1.12 Reaction..... Spun like crazy
2.45 60' Street Radials
10.07 1/8th @ 70.73 MPH

That's why I need to upgrade my top end!!!! and if my back wasn't killing me I'd be half way to finishing it by now....

 

Not to bust your ***** anymore but with your mods with about the same KM on my car I was doing a 14.1 at like 97mph at my altitude. Just to give you a baseline.

Pop those pain killers and slap those new heads on!

 

Keep in mind what 1989GTATransAm said...your only real power-making mod there is your headers/exhaust. The underdrive pulleys might help a little, not sure how much.

That being said, your track pass...the 2.45 60ft is killing you, and if you were still spinning for much after the 60ft mark it will be even worse. I'd be willing to bet with a sub-2.0 60ft (maybe some drag radials) you'd see mid-low 14s.


The other thing i would do, honestly, is throw the stock chip back in and bump up your base timing a little while being dynoed, see if it gains you anything. I don't trust aftermarket chips at all after seeing what was done in a hypertech I bought a few years back.

 

I know that when you change your base timing you have to "pull or disconnect" the tan wire ...... So which one is it I can't tell.

The closer or the farther connector???

 

By the way the Accel injectors that I bought 10 years ago and had installed by a dealership mechanic were not Accel's when I pulled them out last nite!!!!!
I guess the guy switched them when he put them in!!!!!

It looks like they're 24lbs/hr but they're definately not the Accel's that I bought.
What do you guys think...?
Better .... worse?
I talked to Summit but theey couldn't confirm the order... it was too long ago, but I know what I bought!!!

http://www.racetronix.com/621022.html

Thanks 87SSTPI once again for finding this link!!!

 

Just for a comparison my camaro last time I had it on our PROPERLY CALIBRATED mustang laid down 183hp IIRC. 89 TPI 350 with no lower air box, 180* t-stat, and manifold back banks exhaust at the time.

 

Makin me feel better.... I guess....

 

EST tan/black stripe wire is on the passenger side wiring harness, behind the strut tower. Thats where it is on my 89 camaro..not sure if pontiacs are different

 

its a connector that detours out of the 1" loom on the passenger side. simply pull the connector and set/check the timing.

btw that thing sounds nice. and your to do list looks pretty mean. that is going to be fun. yea the only complaint i have with mine is that the top end dies out at around 4000 rpm and you dont feel the pull past that. in my bros LT1 97 Formula, you can feel it pull your cheeks back all the way past 5000 rpm (until the clutch slips ). anyways nice vehicle.

 

Well, after some investigating I finally figured it out......

My car had a rebuilt engine put into it just before I bought it in 1994..... I thought that it was a numbers matching car, but it's not...

It's a .040" over 357 cubic inch roller block (check out the pic) with factory replacement 193 heads with 1.94/1.50" valves and get this ...... a peanut 305 cam 179/194 duration with .350/.384" lift!!!!!! Guess you really never know until you tear it all apart.

That would explain a couple of things though wouldn't it...!!!!

It would explain why my peak hp was @ 3700 RPM !!!!! I always thought this car under-performed. Don't get me wrong, I like the extra displacement now that I know that I have it, but that cam really held me back!!! But it did put down 198hp/293tq which I would suppose is decent all things considered.

I'm sure that the new combo will really wake this car up now!!! I can't wait!!!

 

in the long run, its better that way. Because when you get your new heads/cam installed, boy are you in for a treat.

 

You even have the lower compression pistons. You might want to have the AFR heads decked to increase the compression ratio. Not only that I bet your pistons are around .025" in the hole. You might look into a head gasket that will bring the quench into a more desirable range.

The new AFR heads have a double quench pad and redesigned combustion chamber including the spark plug location that makes the heads a lot more detonation resistant.

 

Ya I'm planning to use felpro's 1094 head gaskets.... .015" compressed thickness.
I'll probably stay with the 65cc AFR combustion chamber because I forsee things in my future..... hehehe

 

"I forsee things in my future..... hehehe"

OK, that makes sense.

 

thats only a V6 dude!
problem solved



haha

 

near 200whp on a mustang dyno with a peanut cam isnt bad Definately junk those heads/cam and pop on those AFR's and a nice bumpstick.

Else i have a 89 roller L98 cam you can have to see if it makes more power

 

Thanks Orr89RocZ for the offer, but I'm not even gonna waste my time putting a l98 cam in it. The duration would be 207/213 with .415/..430" lift, which would definately be better than the 179/194' with .350/.384" lift......

I can't beleive how puny that cam is...... it's pathetic. No wonder it would fall on it's face so quickly..... The TPI was probably helping a cam that small wasn't it? The cubes didn't hurt either I guess.

To tell you the truth though I thought that I could run with most cars around here for awhile anyway (until we started pulling RPMs) and the car certainly had enough grunt to get it moving well....

Anyways, the block is gonna get the old gaskets cleaned off of it today and I'll be throwing in the LPE cam (211/219' with .536/.560" lift) and degreeing it in. (I might as well while I'm here)

Any suggestions as far as Advancing/Retarding the cam with respects to the HSR and the drivability. Most cams have 4' of advancement already.... Does the HSR loose lots of low end torque? Opinions.... I don't wanna do this again anytime soon.

I know that I bought the HSR so that it can breathe on the upper end, but should I advance it just alittle bit more to make up for any bottom end losses?

If I were to install this cam "Straight up" at 112' Intake centerline where should my peak Hp/Tq be and how far should I be able to rev??? Any ideas????

Sorry I know that was a long one

 

Here's the cam card......
The problem is that I have books and different forms of info, but don't have the real world effects of changing these things.....

A book can say advance the cam for low end torque and retard it for top end pull, but if you don't have a point of reference, the decision pretty hard to make.

Thanks to everyone who has helped thusfar
Chris

 

I would install it at 112 degree intake centerline like the cam card says. I see you have 1.6 rocker arms. That is good. The heads will like those.

 

gunner i bought a jet modulefor my work truck a 98 s10 with a 2.2 5spd stage2 module . this thing didnt do crap i di the nec mods like lower thermostat cai exhaust etc. i now know these chips are gimmicks what exactly did u see with that hypertech, an can i do anything to change my jet chip to maybe get 10hp out of it. thanks

 

i dont mean to hijack thread ,sorry. but i paid 250 bucks for this jet module an i know i got ripped off. ya i know a 2.2 is a dog anyway so im not gonna gain much. jet insits that you run 93 octane with their stage 2 module.its total b.s because i cant get it to ping or knock with 87 octane in the tank with the ac on goin up a steep hill lol.