im gettin an 88 tpi unit that runs maf, engines an 87, cars an 87, i dont want to run MAF, its a pain, and its ugly, i dont want it, is there a possible bypass for MAF, im gettin the AIR and EGR bypass chip, so what can i do to make it run with no MAF
tight budget as well
no money for chips and crap
thanks
keith

 

Get a hold of a 90-92 ECM and wiring harness. This will also remove the cold start injector.

 

well im gettin the chip that eliminates the air, and the egr, and that helps, but i dont know if i have a maf here that works on my harness, i had 2 but sold one, and cant remember what one that was, is there some kind of plug or something that eliminates that, like plugs in place of it and just cancels it out, like an ac delete for MAF, lol

or does someone have a maf cheap??

 

you can pick up a fully functional map unit - everything, including wiring and computer for about 500.00 if you look.
then you can sell the maf unit as a complete unit with the wiring and computer.
and just disconnecting the computer imput does not really help. while the mass air flow does not use what the map uses [air pressure] the imputs are necessary for you computer to make any corrections. so disconnecting imputs to the computer actually deprives the computer of imput for tuning. the chip can take care of not reducing performance but the computer should have all the imput so it knows exactly what the engine is doing and can change to increase performance.

 

alright, well i know i have a good 3 prong maf sensor, and i know the other is 5pt, so idk what to do there, but would somoene on here maybee have a cheap WORKING maf, maf alone, nothing else needed at this point
thanks
keith

 

yep!
if you want no maf,you need a sd harness and ecm to name a few parts!lol

keep searching for a mas if you want to spend under $200

 

if you want the diagram go here http://www2.wiring-diagram.com/ is is a complete set of diagrams with color coding for about 12.00.
if you want a factory harness call classic auto in orange country california. i dont have there number with me now but i have put it out before. it will cost about 400 now. it used to cost 1200.
you can also look on e-bay where they say they have it without any smog fittings.
quit trying to make a maf into a map. just buy a map and then sell the maf.
the computer box is different, i.e, different imput plugs and the guts are all different.
take out the one you have - carefully - sell it on e-bay and for about the same price you can buy a map.
you will never get a map to act like a maf, too many different fittings.
one works on mass air flow and the other on manifold pressure.
it would be easier to get your mothers electric washing machine to run on gas.

 

hey what is all the parts i would need to have no MAF i know the ecm and harness is there anything else that i need to go in search of>? thanks in advance
-Eldin

 

IMO the maf is the better system.Again thats just my personal opinion.Your car is going to need either map/SD or maf.The maf is more forgiving and responds better to upgrades and engine modifications because it measures the amount of air coming into the engine instead of making an assumption based on the pressure or however the map reads the incoming air.For a larger cubic inch engine the map is less of a restriction,but the maf will flow enough air for most street set ups.I`ve seen several people modify and enlarge the stock maf unit to flow much more air.
With the SD system you better be good a tuning.From what I understand every little modification that a MAF system can handle and read the changes in airflow the SD unit will have to have the chip modified.You still benifit from tuning then MAF system,but from what I understand you HAVE TO tune the sd system when you make changes.Plus I`ve never had any issues from the maf system that I`m aware of.

 

I agree with the entire post above.
If you want simplicity, then MAF is the ticket.
Also, JMO

 

If you can't burn your own chips or have someone nearby who does custom chips, stick with the maf system. The problem with the maf system in the Third Gen is that the ecm has a lot less memory and capacity than the speed density computer. The result is that while the maf system does correct for better airflow without custom tuning, it is always "behind the curve" because it is slow.

The speed density system in Third Gens is vastly superior to the maf because of a better, faster ecm; but it doesn't respond to mods that increase the breathing capacity of the engine without custom tuning. You can't just bypass the maf. The result would be like bypassing your distributor advance and eliminating the accelerator pump in a carburetor on an old school engine. Essentially you would put your car permanently into "limp home mode."

 

I see you're drinking the MAF kool-aid too.

Thirdgen MAF setups are not as advanced as you make them sound, and they will run into a limit. I promise you that a camshaft swap can throw a MAF car into a fit just as easily as a MAP car. BOTH systems will benefit from a custom chip when you start adding mods that allow for better breathing in and out. MAP systems DO NOT need a custom chip with every little mod. I didnt need a new chip until I went to the LT4 HOT cam. My stock 305 5-speed chip managed my 350 ZZ4 cam engine just fine.

The MAF fuel system is six different tables arranged vertically based on the measured incoming air. To add fuel, you have to find the right table out of the six that the MAF is at and increase the numbers. The MAP fuel system is two tables in a grid that correspond to RPM and vacuum. To add fuel, find the rpm and vacuum the engine is at in the grid and adjust that number.

Lastly, the same as TBI to TPI swaps, I've never heard of someone switching their MAF to MAP and being unhappy with it.

To the original poster, I read somewhere in the DIY PROM board that someone hacked their MAF computer to work with a MAP instead of a MAF. The '8165 computer was used by GM in both modes. You'll have to search that board to find the thread and learn about it.

 

BTW you can't bolt a SD harness into an '87, they are not compatable.

The bulkhead connectors don't match.

 

as far as I know,they match up just fine.What kind of differances you know of Dyno Don?

 

Pardon me for making something made in the 80`s sound advanced.That was not my intention.I agree a camshaft will throw either into a "fit".Didnt say they wouldnt.I also said the maf system will benifit from tuning.Both systems will.I was refering to incoming air mods anyway.

I honestly have never personally delt with a sd system.Thats why I stated "from what I understand" I guess thats wrong from what you say.You obviously do have experience with them.So you`re saying they are as forgiving as the maf system.In general thats just what I`ve heard.My apologies for posting any misinformation.Although I cant imagine running a zz4 on a 305 tune to be a good Idea.Would it not be a little lean?

plus I just cant see going through the trouble of swapping one dated computer for another,when guys get the maf cars running really good.Too each his own.

 

Having run both systems, I can say that done properly, the MAF system will need less attention then the SD system as the fueling is indepenant of the engine. With my MAF system that I was using, I could swap the heads and cam out, turn the key, and just drive away. With SD, the fueling is calculated indirectly from the manifold pressure, engine volumentric efficiency, and cylinder volume. The volumetric efficiency is depenant on the camshaft used, heads, intake, exhaust, etc. Change any parameter enough, and you will have to recalibrate the VE tables. The only real downside to MAF is that its airflow sensitive. The ducting, intake, and PVC system must not only be leak free for MAF to work properly, but also must not have any resonance. If the ducting resonates at certain engine speeds, the standing waves across the MAF will cause it to misreport the airflow. Same goes for sudden transients. You either have to have some code in the computer to compensate for the under/over reported airflow during sudden throttle, or momentarily switch to SD like the later GM PCMs do.

The main issue with the 3rd gen systems is that the computers themselves where very limited in what they could do. The computer could not do syncronous reads of the MAF on each cylinder firing, nor could it accuratly read in the MAF due to the need to use an 8-bit A/D converter. The other limitation is the fact that the ECMs did not have enough ROM space to use 16-bit tables. Instead, they used the 6 tables with the scalars to preserve the resolution while still saving space. The fueling code in the MAF computers was also sort of primitive. It did not calculate the cylinder airmass for each individual cylinder, but instead used global airflow filtering and calculated an overall injector duty cycle based on the incoming flowrate. The computer and MAF also could not directly report more than 255 grams/sec of airflow. The bosch MAFs where also restrictive and suffered from reliability issues in stock form.

Even though they had their own limitations, the later 90+ SD systems had better fueling resolution than the earlier MAF systems and could provide fueling for larger motors with greater airflow requirements. If I had to choose between a stock 3rd gen MAF or SD system, I would probably go with the SD.

 

The bulkhead connectors might be the same, but the wires inside do not match up. In fact, I know of someone who tried it and started a huge fire because a power wire was connected to a ground wire.

In general, MAF systems are superior to speed density systems. However, the thirdgen speed density computer is superior to the thirdgen MAF computer.