Ok i'm going to try and make this short but i have a jasper rebuilt engine in my 1989 camaro (305 5 spd tpi).

anyways its a great engine low miles, no problems with the engine itself. Heres my small issues.

I feel like it's not making the power it should. It has a rough up and down 100 to 150 rpm idle (sounds like a vaccumm leak but it's not). no codes. all data looked to be in spec or very close to within spec. Fuel pressure is set correctly 44psi unhooked. Injectors test to be ok but, are wrong size.

It smells like it runs very rich at idle, where it runs slightly rough. It also gets terrible gas milage exact # unknown (broken odo) but, very bad.

So my mods are in my signature i also have 1.6 rockers that werent in my sig in this post, i think the most pertinent problem might be 22 lb hour injectors installed.

So right now my best track pass was 15.1 at 91.35 mph. 2.4 second 60 footer. Yes i know the 60' is terrible. 1 other thing it tops out around 125-130mph which seems very odd compares to other 305 5 spd car owners.

Btw if any1 has the capability to toss a custom prom my way geared toward bolt on mods on a 305 and a change in the injector constance to my new 21# hr injectors i'd be willing to pay you for the chip and a small ammount for the time if that sounds like its my problem.

thoughts, concerns, questions?

 

any thoughts guys i'm sure theres someone whos went a little outside of the normal box with 305 mods and knows a little about running bigger injectors on a maf setup

 

I think your problem is your chip. It still thinks you have a stock motor with stock injectors. Did you change the exhaust system? If you are still running the stock exhaust manifolds, you are killing your power output. If you installed headers and reduced back pressure, you may need to tell the chip what you did in order for it to compensate for the changes. I'm not sure how well someone can do a chip for you without running the car. Kevin and Don do chips here in So Cal, but there are so many variables even with a stock motor that they need to put the computer on the car to actually see what it is doing to do any real good.

 

I understand that it's out of tune but, i'm trying to figure out the biggest part thats out of tune, so i can get it to run what i would consider normal before i modify it anymore.

And yes if you read my signature i have full exhaust, 1.6 ratio full roller rockers, air foil k&n filter, aluminum driveshaft, lower temp fan and thermo synthetic fluids throughout so on....

basically i think i should be turning a half second faster over a quarter mile than i am with my current mods.... i beleive i should see low 14s with my current standings not low 15s.

could adjusting the fuel pressure down change anything as a partial band aid until i get it fully tuned?

i've adjust the fuel pressure from 35 to 50 psi with my line unhooked with no noticable difference in either direction........ makes no sense to me..... i figure if i lowered the fuel pressure at least my idle will start to tame up but it seems to make no difference in idle or wot..... timing is set at factory setting also btw.....

 

I agree i have a lb9 5 speed car as well and it ran a 14.59 at 95 in almost stock form then a year later i added full exhaust headers and custoemr built back toa 40seires muffler and added a fuel reg and ran it again on almost similar conditions the fallowing year only picked up 1 mph and ran same time. seat of the pants feels like i have more torque down low but other than that nothing.
I also played with my fuel reg pressures and up until i killed and injector felt no improvments of loss of power?

one thought for you slow time is likly you 3.08gears
but my 60 ft was also very poor so i shouldnt talk!

 

As a temporary bandaid you could lower the fuel pressure like you said, but you will need to clear the ECM memory so it will relearn idle and all of the fuel corrections again.
Running rich as you're doing has a tendancy to wet-down and foul the sparkplugs. Once you lower your FP and unhook your battery, take the time to put in some fresh plugs before you start it up for the relearn. Don't use the plugs with the screw-on tips. They can get loose.

If you still want to try some more temporary bandaid, then if your factory timing setting is 6* BTDC, you can try increasing it up to 10*-12* BTDC. It should have an effect similar to leaning out your idle due to the burn being started a little sooner. Be sure to set the timing and FP back to stock whenever you get the proper chip to make everything right.

 

What cam does your engine have? It sounds like you need a tune badly. You have bigger injectors and higher fuel pressure than stock (50 PSI). Both of these are causing your car to run rich. Reduce your fuel pressure to about 38 PSI. Like others have said, change the spark plugs and also the oxygen sensor.
As far as the chip burning is concerned, find someone that can do a wide band tune on your car. This way things will be adjusted to the engine's demands under load. Most people that do LT1 tuning should be able to tune your car. It will make a huge difference. It made a huge difference on my cammed LB9.

 

Oh yeah he is right about the O2 as well. Many people running headers improve their idle by swapping to a heated O2 sensor.

 

aaaah sorry guys been busy the past few days. Ok heres the thing changing my fuel pressure seems to have no affect which is quite wierd as for a heated 02 sensor any1 have a part #1 for a good working 3 wire 02?

the fuel pressure is set to 44 psi with the line unhooked which is factory for this year. i've brought it from 30-50+ psi and i cant see any difference. O wow just reread the thread and you know what that was a major brain fart on my part...... i never unplugged the battery to let it relearn after i reset my fuel pressure, i was just waiting to see instant results....

as for the cam the engine is a mystery to me it had all the bolt ons i listed other than the rockers which i added when i got it, it almost sounds like it has a cam...... heres a video of it on high idle last year, http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y71...urrent=008.flv
nothing has changed since then.

 

You need to have a new prom burned set for 22lb injectors for it to run correctly. The other option would be to pick up a used set of 19s.

I used a 3 wire o2 from a 92 chevy pickup on mine but that alone will not fix your issues.

 

The fuel pressure change is only a bandaid that might or might not work. The ecm doesn't need to relearn anything when you adjust the pressure. It doesn't know what the fuel pressure is. It just assumes stock fuel pressure and 19 lb/hr injectors, and then sets injector pulse width accordingly. If you have installed 22 lb/hr injectors in a 305, it is just like over jetting a carb. It will run rich. Unless you have put on a blower or nos, you don't need anything bigger than the stock 19 lb injectors. If you have installed a power adder, you need a custom chip and you don't need someone "to toss a custom prom your way" for any price. If it isn't burned specifically for your car after the prom burner has run your car and examined exactly what it needs, it will not be right. It won't ba few bucks, or a beer, or a case of beer, if the guy knows what he is doing. It is going to take at least an hour maybe 2 for a tuner to test your car, burn a chip, retest your car, reburn, etc. until it is dialed in.

 

I am sure that you can find somebody in your area that does wide band prom tuning in your area. I got my car fully tuned for $350 and that was some of the best money I spent on my car. Look around and ask shops that do tuning for LS1s or LT1s. Columbus is a big city. I would be very surprised if you can't find anybody there to do the work. If you have the time, you can also buy the equipment for about $250 and learn to do it yourself. You will be so much happier with your car when you get it tuned. It is worth every penny.
What about these guys: http://www.aptuning.net/Articles.asp?ID=121 are they in your area? I don't know anything about them, but from their website it seems like they can do it. Just a thought.

 

well i agree it needs tuned but at this point i would rather try and band aid i think..... because well 350$ is more than i paid for my entire top end setup lol..... + it's going to have parts flung at it soon i figure i'll calculate what psi i need to run to get it back to factory fuel ammounts feeding...... so technically its getting like 15% more fuel than it needs to at its current setting so i'm going to set my base timing with the connector unhooked to 10*btdc and reduce fuel pressure to 38psi with is 86% of the factory 44psi. In theory this should bring my fueling back to where it should be for the time being. Then again i'm still going to have it tuned just not for a few months until i get some real mods....

most likely i'll be decreasing fuel by to much because, of all my current bolt ons....

 

If you have an aftermarket cam, chances are that you are running rich at idle and lean at higher revs. You can attempt to adjust the fuel pressure based on the voltage readings that you get from your O2 sensor. But as it stands, you are already far enough from stock that if I were you, I would not drive this car the way it is without a proper computer tune. You may end up damaging other things.
Change one thing at a time. Set the timing to the stock specifications, 6* BTDC. Adjust your fuel pressure while monitoring your O2 sensor. Then play with the timing, advancing it about 2* at a time. Also make sure you have premium fuel in there to prevent detonation.

If you can't pay somebody right now to tune your car, get the tuning equipment and learn to do it yourself. It would be a good thing to know, especially since you are planning future mods.

 

man I just read this whole thing

dude if you are looking to half ash it until you do all the mods and have us help you hack it maybe you want a mustang.

just have someone burn you a new prom or buy some new injectors

also you could have leaky injectors or a bad o2 sensor

does your rail hold preasure(unless its a holley reg)

is your exhaust hot out the tailpipe when it is fully warmed up

 

If it keeps running rich, you risk washing down the cylinder walls and scoring them. If you run it lean, you risk blowing it up. You can band aid it if you want thinking in terms of "I didn't spend $350 for the entire top end." But if you destroy the engine trying to do a band aid, how much will you need to spend to get it repaired?

 

ok 15% overly rich isnt that bad...... standard 10 to to 13-1 is the best for power and what most of us run with a tuned setup...... i agree mine is overly rich...... and yes i agree it needs tuned...... it's currently not being driven at all its sitting in my yard as i drive my daily......

its obvious i'm not trying to half *** it because i'm asking opinions on how to do it..... i just surely dont have 350$ to spend on a chip that needs replaced in 2 months time........ so call me half ***, call me poor, its what i've got to work with...

all i know is many others on this site run with more mods and no tuning, so i find it hard to beleive theres not a happy medium i can reach....... as for washing my cylinder walls and blowing my engine, thats not gonna happen its know where near that bad.....

i'll probably download tunerpro or something and get me a cable to fit on the car to read diagnostics while i tweak on it with what i have..... If i still feel its still to far out of whack then it won't be driven until after it's modded, straight to a dyno shop or just sit in the driveway till i safely tune it myself.

 

You may want to look into this, but some shops will not charge you a lot more for other minor adjustments after the car has been tuned the first time. You will not need to change the chip in order to adjust the tune after you have performed other modification. If you are not driving the car and want to do everything at the same time, than that's fine. But if such is the case, I don't see why you need a bandaid.

 

Sorry about that, my bad, I didn't see the 15% in this post. You are right 15% won't wash down cylinder walls.