I've been doing some searching and research on intake runners. I have a set of stockers that I'm opening up to 9% more flow that I may just use for now. But I'm really interested in the Accel cast runners, mainly for their look and reputation. I'm just curious to if they're really all what they're cracked out to be. Same with the SLP siamesed runners. I'd prefer the look of the Accel's since they look closer to stock but I don't mind the SLP runners if, in-fact, they are the better of the two not to mention cheaper.

Then you have the TPIS Large Tube runners. I know these are hyped up heavily by TPIS and they even say stay with your stock runners if you can't afford their runners. Well, at 425 bones, I personally don't think a set of aluminum tube runners that will dent and blemish just as easily as the OEM peices is worth my time and money.

Aren't the AS&M runners just re-boxed TPIS Large Tubes??

Are there any runner options I'm unaware of?

(I think the Edelbrock's look terrible so I don't think I'm even going to consider those)

I'm also having the plenum ported to whichever I make my decision on and already have an aftermarket intake base (I have both an original Accel casting and a Hi-Flo Edelbrock) so the semi "bottleneck" situation there will be somewhat overcome. I know I'll never make LT1, Stealth Ram, Super Ram, or Miniram power with the stock appearing TPI setup but I'm looking to stay with the look and style of the stock TPI with just some added benefits of the aftermarket. I'd just like to get my money's worth so please tell me your opinions as they are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

I know that this test was done on a 383 but it is still a good comparison. The TPIS runners are the best performing LTR set-up. Yes AS&M and TPIS are the same thing.
http://compcams.com/Community/Articl...?ID=1737510521

 

They're the same runners, but you've got it backwards. AS&M manufactures them, TPIS just raises the price and resells.

If you want stock looks and the best performance, the AS&M runners have always been the king in that category.

The SLP runners are about the cheapest option out there, and they leave a ton of room for grinding, but out of the box the reputation is pretty poor. Honestly I'll never buy another thing from SLP. They've gone from having several pages of parts for 82-92 F-bodies, to having virtually nothing. They obviously aren't interested in supporting us, so I won't support them. It's as though they've forgotten where they started and what made them famous.

Just about everything Edelbrock makes is barely better then stock. I'm not impressed with their TPI parts.

 

Yeah the AS&M runners are the best choice if you're sticking with the stock tpi upper plenum. As far as the bases are concerned, the Accel and Edelbrock base are essentially the same casting, so just go with which one you prefer. If you port match the plenun to the runners and grind down the egr walls located in the plenum right behind the throttle body you should have a pretty good flowing setup. Maybe go with a 52mm TB while you're at it if you have a little extra cash for one. I have to agree with Drew on SLP too. It pisses me off how they just stop selling stuff for the older motors. Hell they're already discontinuing a lot of stuff for the 4th gen cars too.

 

I swear by the AS&M LTR's. I run port-matched the plenum to the runners and to the ported (2") Accel base. I love it.

I must mention though, my case might be an anomoly, but my runners were warped upon arrival. AS&M tried to fix them but failed. I fussed & cussed for months trying to figure out why my car would not stay lit. I figured (a) they wouldn't sell crappy products and (b) they said they fixed it (which they did not.) I eventually took them to a local machine shop and got the job done right and love this setup. You will feel it.

(mine are polished too, looks pretty spiffy!)

 

Thanks for the link that was a good write up. I've seen another article like that but it was not done in such detail. Great find.

 

Well as far as intake bases go we don't have any other option besides Edelbrock. TPIS's big mouth intake is just a slightly ported Hi-Flo Edelbrock if I'm not mistaken. And the newest Accel base is just a reboxed Edelbrock unlike it's older counterpart which was a casting unique to itself by Lingenfelter. And I don't know if there are any other bases available. I'm not impressed with the prices of parts for our TPI's though, this stuff is pretty overpriced but I guess it comes with the territory when your talking out of date fuel injection. I completely agree with you on your opinion of SLP though. They completely abandoned the 3rd Gen a long time ago which really sucks but oh well I guess. Thanks for the info though!

 

I have never come across a set of the AS&M/TPIS LTR's up close before. Is the tubing used as fragile as the GM OEM runners? I would hate to shell out the money for those and they end up denting and blemishing just as easily as the stockers. Let me know, because, definitely for the performance, they are the best.

Is no one on here using a set of the ACCEL cast runners?!?! I'm really interested in them even though they have the same dimensions as the SLP's though they are not siamesed. Check out this link and you'll see some rediculous flow numbers on the Accels. (especially after Extrude Honing) http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/vader86/flow.html

 

Here is what you need:


HP to 6000 and Torque 400@5000

My car makes 370/410 with these. (355)

 

Yes but how well are you even sealing that opening and what are the rest of the specs on your motor? cam? heads? intake base? ported plenum? Compression? etc.... I'd love to make those numbers. Even slightly less HP I'd be happy with but the torque number is perfect, and I'm planning on punching out to a 355 as well.

 

That's true, Edelbrock seems to be the only game in town anymore. It just sucks that the Edelbrock TPI base is such a piece of crap. I've got one sitting here and the stock runner ports are the same size as stock. The fuel rail mounting holes are drilled off center in the casting (I'm assuming they match a stock fuel rail, I haven't checked that part yet), overall the quality isn't even as good as the stock intakes. I'd be pissed if I'd paid $400 for it.

There's absolutely no reason that TPI parts should cost as much as they do. By now the R&D and fixturing should have been paid for. The prices are out of sight for Camaro/Firebird owners. Even C4 Vette owners aren't exactly wealthy. These guys need to get with it and give us a quality product at a fair price. When they charge $400 for an intake base, $275-500 for runners, $300 for a throttle body, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

The AS&M runner tubing is just as thin as the stock runners. Just dont pry on them or drop stuff on them and you will not have dents.

 

I know. The throttle body i could see being the price that it is since it is so similar to the LT1 piece. But even LT1 parts should be cheaper by now. $475 for TPIS LTRs, just marked up $40 from AS&M... rediculous. We could easily convert to Carb but I'd rather keep the TPI system and for the style you cannot beat the TPI, definitely the BEST looking fuel injection system, probably ever. That's the main reason I'm sticking with it rather than doing an LT1 or LS1 swap. So we complain alot when there are cheaper ways to horsepower or in the case of the LT and LS swaps, more expensive but more efficient. But even on ebay, you see someone listing a complete TPI system just taken off some other car and they want to sell it for 600 bucks, that's crazy. The car it came off of may have only been worth slightly more than that. Even parting them out, there's guys trying to get 80 bucks for a set of dirty, oxidized, dented, pitted intake runners.

I picked up my TPI setup with sensors for $200 and I got with it a radiator, dual cooling fans, new starter, new alternator, 2 cap and rotors, water pump, intake ducting, ignition wires, can of hardware, oil pan and a box of misc parts. Now that was a rediculous deal that I'll never find again but even just the TPI system for 200 would be at least more along the line of what it should be.

I could go on all day but then I'd officially be complaining. haha!

 

How much machining is there in a TPI throttle body? How many moving parts? Now how about a 4bbl carburetor... 2-3 times as many moving parts, and at least twice as much machine work. So why is a TPI throttle body more expensive then a 4bbl carb? How much more does it cost to produce a TPI intake vs a 4bbl intake? The casting has to be just about the same, and there's a bit more machining involved, but still TPI intakes are $400+ and a typical 4bbl intake is $150. A typical upgraded TPI intake system costs about $800, and a typical Ford 5.0 aftermarket intake costs $600.

Now I realize that we're a smaller niche market, but you can't tell me these companies aren't making a profit. What the TPI community really needs is for the Chinese to start making aftermarket intake components in their sweat shops. They couldn't be any lower quality then the Edelbrock garbage, and they'd drive the prices down.

 

Haha! I agree. If the market for the TPI was larger it would bring the prices down. And yeah they'd probably be cheaper if Chinese made but I'd much rather keep the money in America. But that's another story for another day and another website. Let's not bring international commerce into this. haha.

 

Would the FIRST injection system (FFI) fit the bill an upgraded TPI system? It's a little pricey right now but it has the bigger manifold, runners, plenum, and throttle body. I've heard that out of the box, it flows better than some heavily ported manifolds with LTR's. I might have read that from BadSS or someone elses post on here.

Just a thought.

 

Oh it fits the bill but the problem is that bill is too big for my wallet, haha. If I could get my hands on one for a decent price, which will never happen, I'd love to dive into one of those. Again, even that system is overpriced. Good thought though! The F.I.R.S.T. system is badass.

 

Oh I'm with you, I'd much rather keep my money here. I just think someone needs to kick Mr Edelbrock square in the nuts.

 

Where can someone get one of those?

 

I am running the Accel runners with a seriously ported plenum and stock base. I ported the runners quite a bit where they meet the plenum. I have an older Accel base I am going to be putting on this winter. With just the ported plenum, accel runners, cai, MT drag radials and headers I ran a 14.3 quarter.

 

I still new to the Camaro aftermarkket thing, and I was wondering where I can find the as&m runners at? I've looked them up online and I can't seem to find them anywhere...

 

You can still buy them from Arizona Speed & Marine or you can get the TPiS Large Tube Runners which are the exact same runners.

AS&M's website is http://www.azspeed-marine.com/inco2.html $435.00

TPiS's website is http://www.tpis.com/parts/view/31 $479.95

There's obviously a difference in price there for the same part but I do not know if TPiS does anything to them. They may smooth out the bore entrances but I doubt it, they're just typically overpriced on a lot of things although they give pretty decent customer service and support.

The link for the TPiS site is for a 92 Camaro you can select what year your car is if you go back to their home page (that is if you have a pre-1989 car with cold start injector). Let me know if you have any other questions, I've done much research on the intake options for our cars and have learned A LOT!

 

I think part of the deal is that this is also a popular intake to use on engines that weren't EFI because you can either modify the 87+ ones to work with old school engines or you can use the 85-86/vette intakes up to 92 for your old school small block. That means that they are going after a market that thinks its "cheaper" than buying a whole one and may not necessarily know better. That and Edelbrock extorts for an TPI setup. Hell you can buy a STEALTH RAM or a VIC EFI for $100 LESS than a TPI base alone. Or a set of the TPIS runners. Sure it doesn't include rails but if you're switching to say Vortecs anyways the money spent will get you a better intake.