ok heres the story i have 92 rs tbi v8 im in the process of getting ahold of a smashed 88 roc with tpi now my basic idea is to try and put down close to 400 at the wheels i also plan on turboing it soon after save up some more cash
now i know the tip isn't a big power house for hp so what is a feasible goal for a n/a tpi and how much could a turbo add to it to reach 400 hp.
also as far as ecm tuning how hard is I've been told its not too hard but then again thats a opinion. what would i need to be able like flash it like the obd2 would mega squirt be easier to tune for a novice like my self thanks i really appreciate any advice you guys got

 

One of the socal members put afr 195 heads, comp cams 280xfi, and a ported Holley Stealth Ram on his stock bottom end of a 350 and put down 397 rwhp. Of course he had supporting mods such as Dyno Dons shorties with cats. Oh and he just passed CA smog with it too!

 

well if your wanting to get that much power... its gonna take a really good set of heads... like afr or dart a nice cam in the 230-240 duration range... unless you do go turbo then your gonna need to get really good at doing custom tunes either way you go

 

thanks but i wanna use my stock tip setup and jus really really port the hell out of them so im limited to like 5g at most right so isn't get a set of really good flowing heads a bit of a waste im no pro so i could be wrong my motor is gunna be turbo ready with all forged dished pistons and such so i can just bolt on the turbo withe turbo runing at like 7 -10 pounds of boost i wanna be touching 400 is this possible?

 

you wont get that at the wheels with stock head.. you'll have to go aftermarket..

 

7-10 lbs wont get you 400whp with stock 305 TPI but will net a pretty good gain in power and be a very fun to drive street car.

Buy one of my T4 T60's and it be a good match for a single turbo 305 TPI motor not looking to get over 5500 rpm.

 

first i would start off with a fresh 350... a 305 just wont cut it.... then i would get the edlebrock base and slp runners have them ported and siamesed by dr j performance. that will cost you close to 1000 in porting and its located in california... they can get those to flow around 320+cfm which is better than a hsr... i would also fully port and siamese the plenum... grind down all the walls... nice heads like afr 180s or 195 go along with that intake.... since its tpi i would go with the comp cam thats 224-230 duration.. i think its the 502 cam.... thats as big as i would go for a daily driver tpi car. also you would want at least 24lb injectors and a adjustable fuel pressure regulator... do all of that plus the supporting mods like exhaust cold air intake etc... since you have a auto i would beef up that 700r4... better clutch pack with transgo shift kit and corvette servo to handle all that power... the stock 700r4 will sucks... it shifts way too slow and will not shift in overdrive at wot, it feels mushy all around and will probably blow.... i would also get a 10 inch 3000 stall converter to get into the powerband... finally get it all dyno tuned and you will be very close to 400 to the wheels.. of course since your this far your going to need suspension mods to handle all this new power..... things like poly bushings sfcs stbs and tubular parts will add traction and strength to the car... as you see its a snowball effect.. you cant really do one area without upgrading other parts of the car..

 

wow thats a lot of info but im not doin a 305 the irocs got a 350 that im gunna take so will 7 to 10 pounds get me close or is it still not enough 88fastgta thanks for all the info u know your stuff

 

i didnt relize this was a 305.. good luck... ur gonna need it ... get someone who knows what they are doing to tune this for u

 

I looked at your side information there and saw 305 and just assumed the car was a 305. I'm sorry about that.

I think ZZ3Astro is his name on here, but he turbo'd his L98 and has been running closer to 15psi...his times indicate that his power is closer to 330-340whp...close to 400 on motor but not quite at the wheels yet.

 

Dr J's does nice work.

[/quote]nice heads like afr 180s or 195 go along with that intake.... since its tpi i would go with the comp cam thats 224-230 duration.. i think its the 502 cam.... thats as big as i would go for a daily driver tpi car. also you would want at least 24lb injectors and a adjustable fuel pressure regulator... do all of that plus the supporting mods like exhaust cold air intake etc... since you have a auto i would beef up that 700r4... better clutch pack with transgo shift kit and corvette servo to handle all that power... the stock 700r4 will sucks... it shifts way too slow and will not shift in overdrive at wot, it feels mushy all around and will probably blow.... i would also get a 10 inch 3000 stall converter to get into the powerband... finally get it all dyno tuned and you will be very close to 400 to the wheels.. of course since your this far your going to need suspension mods to handle all this new power..... things like poly bushings sfcs stbs and tubular parts will add traction and strength to the car... as you see its a snowball effect.. you cant really do one area without upgrading other parts of the car..[/QUOTE]

What a mismatch.....

1. 400 RWHP will require closer to 36 LB injectors.. 24s will be way too small
2. CAI...pointless
3. The servo has nothing to do with the amount of power a trans will handle, it just effects the shift points.
4. So let me get this straight. You're suggesting 180CC heads with a TPI and a 3000 stall converter? How does this make any sense at all??

As to the drive train, yes, that will be an issue, but poly bushings? Sigh...

 

Don't get wrapped up in FLOW NUMBERS for heads. Pick the right head, not the one with the best advertising. Flow numbers don't tell the story.

Also, do not get wrapped up with Throttle bodies, air foils, or the rest of the snake oil that is sold. Save your money.

Second, plan your exhaust. Factor in a nice set of headers.

I like Bullet and Crower for cams. Their tech guys just know how to get it right. I don't find Comp has the technical expertise to match these guys.

 

Quit being so anti-AFR

 

double post

 

first of its not a mismatch in my opinion.... i cant speak for injectors so you may have me there.. im running 24lb injectors...the factory "cold air" setup on firebirds are terrible not so much so on the camaros... getting a slp cold air intake or any homemade intake will yeild improvements.. i know this because ive done this on my gta and notice a difference.... i never said that the corvette servo will handle any amount of power... it firms up the 1-2 shifts and gets rid of the slop that the stock 700r4 has.... its recommended when doing any 700r4 performance build... what are you talking about mismatch....180-195 heads with a AFTERMARKET tpi setup that flows 320+ cfm and a 3000-3400 stall would be a awesome daily driver.... dr j's work on a tpi will outperform a stock hsr.... would you use a 3000+ stall on a hsr.... yes why because it breathes better in the upper rpms... you send your slp runner and edeldbrock intake to dr j and it will be way over that 4800 rpm wall and reach 6500 rpms and acts like a hsr but retain all of your low end power with the usual supporting mods..... i just put a tci 10 inch tci converter in my ported slp/edelbrock setup with a gm hot cam and it was a huge difference over the corvette stall... low end power increased a bit... 0-60 time went down... i can roast tires alot easier and i can get into my powerband alot faster it shifts faster, my car sounded abit different with the converter and just seemed more powerful.... i would not put a 3000 stall in a stock tpi but a tpi that has some serious work done to it will love a 3000 converter.... it feels awesome..no stock lt1 can touch me not even midly built ones can touch my low end power... i can hang with stockish ls1, but im a head swap away from putting and end to that....1989gtatransam has 3600 stall in his maxed out tpi and has bigger heads.. (200cc i think)and is puttin down near 400whp..

 

hey guys calm down lol hey i found this iys a carb l98 that im assuming is measured at the crank for 1000 bucks
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ild/index.html

it put down 403 hp so with a 20 percent drive train loss list like 320 at the wheel right so with a turbo i should be able to touch 400 jus curious

 

How do you read into that? All I said was "don't buy flow numbers" which I think is simply good advice. NO, I am not a fan of AFR and I have said that. But how you come away with that as being anti-AFR is beyond me.

 

Paragraphs, please, it's really hard to read and I just don't have the patience to read the detail.

24 lb injectors are too small. They are good to 350CHP so what? 310 at the wheels? You're probably running out of fuel, what's your AFR at WOT? A stock LT1? How long to "hang" with an LS?

What's the 1/4 mile trap time/speed..... spinning tires is one thing, speed is another.

Still think, mismatch.

 

Thats just a joke about picking a head not on flow numbers and advertising...in which most threads start with AFR...and you always tend to jump in and push to get other heads...I just remember the corvetteforum threads

You throw enough boost at it you will make that power on stock motor. Just need to tune it well and it may need racegas or alot of methanol injection to cool intake charge. Guys have been low 9's with turbo+nitrous...thats 700+whp.

 

I'll say that to anyone that talks about flow numbers. I think I've been consistent. And where did I push another head in this thread? I do like the Profilers for the money. They are a few hundred bucks cheaper and no a lick of performance is lost. There's lots of choices.

It's probably because many people who look at AFR are all enamored with flow numbers that you see a pattern. My pattern is to point out flow numbers are not the determining factor when ever it's mentioned, regardless of brand being considered. I think consumer education is a wonderful thing. Understanding the product you are spending all this money on, and not from a brochure, should get all the facts.

The other pattern is people who consider AFR typically talk about nothing but flow. They are typically uneducated in the way a head works, and go by bought and paid for "articles" in magazines or "I know a guy" followed by some ball swinging stories. But I'm just stereotyping.... Perhaps looking at the purchasing demographic would be more telling than spanking me for being consistent.

 

some ppl just gotte learn the hard way instead of takin the knowledgeable advice of ppl that have been down this road...if ya dont wanna take advice... dont ask... its that simple.... good luck with gettin 400hp to the wheels and keep the engine together...

 

Agreed, flow isnt everything but its one piece of the puzzle.

On the subject of torque converters, a typical TPI setup peaks in the 3200 rpm range. Most converters tend to be up to 500 rpms off peak torque, so that would make 2700 rpm as a stall speed for a peak torque of 3200. I ran 2800 on my TPI and it ran great. 1.7x 60 foot on a bolt on TPI car on 3.27-3.42 gears. When I switched to HSR, torque curve shifted...it was flatter and had more torque beyond 3200. Between 2800-4000 it was rather flat. Keeping that same 2800 fit that curve well. It also do 1.7x 60's with a best of 1.71 I believe. That 60 was better than my best stock TPI 60 foot. I'm willing to bet I would have ran identical with aftermarket TPI and quite possibly a touch better on 60 foot with another 30lbft or so at peak hitting the tires. Judging by how well my buddy's L98 ran with aftermarket big tube TPI stuff, I'd say on a stock L98, the intakes are a wash. Should be capable of similar times and 60's with 2600-2800 stall speed converters.
Theres alot more to a converter than that but I wouldnt consider 3000 too far off. I'd like to see 2800-3000 on long tube runners but you can and need more when you go to shorter runner siamesed TPI setups as they shift the torque curve up higher.

Feasible n/a power for a TPI?? I'd say 320-340whp is quite common with decent heads/LTR TPI. Siamese and pull more rpm you can hit as high as 400 on a stroker...guys are doing it. But on stock bottom end, with just heads/cam swap, 320-340whp is nice to see. Spray it with a 100 to get 400whp and it will hold together.

 

yea im kinda lost i don't plan on keeping the heads stock i know there not that good the link i put up there do you think that set up is any good all my internals are goin to be forged so i can run boost so what would you guys suggest for heads to get close to 400

would a tpi with the vortech setup be good for 400 with a turbo

 

Yeah you can likely get the 400hp with the turbo on stock heads, but better heads/intake and matching cam will help alot. You can run less boost which means less heat and less detonation prone events that will tear a stock bottom end apart.

Now if you go all forged, you may beable to get away with stock cleaned up heads and just boost the crap out of it...just need good gas and proper intercooling with good tuning. If you replace the pistons, just go low compression. lower 8's to 1 with iron heads, around 9 to 1 with aluminum if you upgrade to something aluminum. that should allow you to run 15-18psi without much fuss.

 

so with the iron heads what would be the most boost could i run

 

Got to keep compresson down as iron will hold in chamber heat more so than aluminum...thats why aluminum heads can run near 1 point more compression than comparable Iron head motors.

The amount of boost you run will vary depending on cam events, chamber design, compression, fuel type/octane, and how good your intercooling will be.

 

Why 400? Its just a number. Do you have an ET goal in mind? If you're going to run a turbo, I'd forget about spending 400 on a base and 500 on porting and then you're going to need runners (another 400 or so) to feed all that. $$$$$$$
On 7psi my stock 305 ran 104 in the 1/4 and that was the first time I ran it that way. With some tuning and practice and better 60', I would have run 12's with it. At 16psi... lets just say it was a whole lot faster.

 

Spend that $$$$ on the turbo swap instead.

What does it run with 16psi? Sounds great

 

Let me guess.....Jsup

 

YEP. Nice to see you, kinda.

 

well madmax 400 just seems like nice number lol for a 350 i dont think its a really big goal to get to and i wanna impress my old man he had a 600 horse power 57 belair daily driver along with a a entire book full of cars he built so i guess its in the family lol.

 

been a while and i did some diggin what do you think about this combo corvette heads ported and polished with 2.00 intake and 1.55 exhaust fast burn valves a comp cam XR270HR and all forged internals with a 9 to 1 cr and port and Siamese the intake how close would that get to 400 you guys think. before the the turbo is on

 

The Heads sound like they just might be OK for you but I am not so sure about that cam. It sounds like it might not be the best for a Turbo. You could spary that set up and do well though. I am not sure about the overlap on that cam. Might blow through with a Turbo.

 

Thats still low 300's at the tires. hotcam, mild cleaned up vette heads, and aftermarket TPI will do 320-330 and thats not to far off it. Now it may do abit more but depends on how far the heads have been ported.

If you want a shot at 400 to the ground with a 350, think 195cc heads with tight chamber, mid high 230's duration cam and a miniram. Pray the bottom end holds

 

low 300 with out the turbo or with it

 

without it

 

so then with a turbo ill be at 400 or at least close to it sweet thanks

 

mild ported vette heads, that cam and TPI on boost should easily hit 400whp

 

the hot cam or xr also i heard that simases the intake cause some cyinders to run lean or to rich is that true would i be better off just porting the hell out of the intake and not simeseing it

 

1000 to port a tpi system>! Im working way too cheap!
Dr Js is good though Ill give him that.


Hey how did the stealth ram pass ca smog are they 50 state legal?

 

No EO. A hope and a prayer and an added on EGR.

 

Correction: No hope, I just drove it into the Test Only center and let them test it, no prayer ( I pray, but not about car BS), just a cleverly designed, well engineered, well integrated EGR system. Don't get mad, max; just admit you wish you would have thought of it.

Bill

 

Well stated...

 

"1000 to port a tpi system>! Im working way too cheap!"

Hahaha. Dr J gets $500+ for the intake manifold itself but they do flow 320 cfm for the Edelbrock and 330+ for the Accel version. Then you need to upgrade the runners to match and I don't know the charge on that. Then another option is to just get the First Injection system and with a little clean up you are there. More massaging and you are past those numbers.

 

Your intake is not legal here.

The law:

16 CCR § 3340.41.5

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 16, § 3340.41.5


Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 16. Professional and Vocational Regulations
Division 33. Bureau of Automotive Repair
Chapter 1. Automotive Repair Dealers and Official Stations and Adjusters
Article 5.5. Motor Vehicle Inspection Program
Current Section§ 3340.41.5. Tampering with Emissions Control Systems.

A tampered emissions control system is an emissions control system which is missing, modified or disconnected. An emissions control system which has a missing, modified, or disconnected emissions related component is also deemed a tampered emissions control system. For purposes of the visual emission control system inspection pursuant to Health and Safety Code Section 44012(a), the terms missing, modified and disconnected are defined as follows:

(a) Missing. A missing emissions control system or component is one which has been removed from the vehicle or engine.

(b) Modified. An emissions control system is deemed to have been modified if:

(1) the system has been disabled, even though it is present and properly connected to the engine and/or vehicle;

(2) an emissions related component of the system has been replaced by a component not marketed by its manufacturer for street use on the vehicle; or

(3) an emissions related component of the system has been changed such that there is no capacity for connection with or operation of other emissions control components or systems;

(c) Disconnected. A disconnected hose, wire, belt or component is one which is required for the operation of an emissions control system and which has been disconnected.


Note: Authority cited: Section 44002, Health and Safety Code; and Section 9882, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Sections 44012(a), 44013(b) and 44017, Health and Safety Code.


From Holley on the HSR: (emissions code 3)
The product accompanying this document is legal only for off-highway use (except in California or states that have adopted California emission standards), racing use, or for use on pre-emission- controlled motor vehicles/motor vehicle engines (pre-1966 domestic vehicles certified to California standards, pre-1968 domestic vehicles certified to federal standards, and all pre-1968 foreign vehicles), per the manufacturer's application guide.

Proceed at your own risk.

 

Max,

Did you forget to list the cam, governor recalibration kit, rear axle gears, et al?

Oh, OK I'll remove the intake. I feel so guilty now.

Peace, out.

Bill

P.S.: Did I ever say the intake is legal? And, keep in mind, this is a public forum.

**Back to topic.**

 

Thats a pretty inane argument to make, but I would expect no less. Thankfully this is a public forum, with archived posts showing truth.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...14-post90.html

le·git·i·mate/-ˌmāt/
Verb: Justify or make lawful.
Adjective: Conforming to the law or to rules

 

orr89 wich cam are u talking about the hotcam or xr

 

I would say hotcam but anything that is close to same size should beable to make close to 300 if not abit over that with mild cleaned up/revalved Vette heads and aftermarket TPI or HSR.

XR270HR is somewhat similar at .050 to the hotcam..i'd expect it to act similar.

 

Yeah. 300HP is easy. not much has to be done here.