Jets use kerosine based fuels, airplanes use a high octane fuel similar to mogas (car gasoline but with an octane rating of around 115).

 

This thread is up in the air. I've followed this thread for a while now. I've read issues that range from bad fuel pumps, too much atmospheric heat, high tank pressures, vapor lock, fuel return to the fp intake, engine temp related. The list goes on. So, what was the main issue that started this thread???????????

 

I think somebody,s car kept dying when the temp went up.He could'nt get a half hour from the house.I can't remember,either.I don't think it's a conspiracy,I think it's an unintended consequence.Lately it seems as though older aircraft have been dropping out of the sky.Older stuff with a record of reliability that is unmatched,old beechcraft,even otters.Decades of maintenance,reliability,responsibility.Ted Stevens in Alaska,the last two airshows,the guy last week flying home with his three kids,did it every weekend for years..fuel issues.It was foggy,cloudy,whatever.What about IFR?I don't think it"s 3rd gens,I just think thats our frame of reference.You imagine telling somebody their kjd died from eating a peanut butter sandwich?I think the systems can't support the stuff.Who knows panhead201

 

Here is one step I am taking. Fiberglass heat shield on the bottom of my gas tank. This in conjunction with the stock heat shield should keep the radiated heat from the muffler in check. I will also be covering the fuel lines in the engine bay with fiberglass insulation.

 

nice, where did you purchase that material.

i still have the whining noise on an autozone pump--no loss in pressure/cutting out, etc. havent moved the fuel lines to the back like the vettes, yet, either. noticeable pressure and warm condensing vapor still comes out even on ~30degF days. grab the filler neck and its like a handwarmer--and another thing, i cannot leave the nozzle at the gas station buried in the (aftermarket from autozone) tank when filling, it spits back out all over the place. filler nozzle has to be upright as possible and withdrawn from the filler neck as much as possible. angle or filler neck vent issue?? i dont know, managed to find a baffled tank from an 1LE car that will be going in shortly.

what is the fix for keeping the sock out of the way??? also need to make sure aeration isnt taking place due to return line height/depth inside tank

 

The fuel backing out is just the angle in the filler pipe.Every side fill car I have will do it with those big vapor recovery things on the nozzle.Tank looks cool,You could get one of those flat cold air intakes that goes on the end of your air cleaner flex hoses and duct fresh air up there,like we make brake coolers out of.Let me know the outcome.Too bad you don't have one of those thermal imaging devices they look at your house with.Even a night vision scope.It'd show you all the hot spots pretty quick.panhead201

 

It is made by DEI. Part number 050502.

 

It not just camaro's with this problem, The guy has a older charger,Challenger and many older hot rods. The fuel return lines is the problem, since the change in the gas structure over the years. Hey when its over 110 degrees her in Az next year and I can only drive my car for 30- 40 min before it gets hot. I am going to get some ave fuel from him. That will tell the story! The guys a hot rod building machine. I believe he knows what he is talking about. He uses it in his cars in the summer and for car shows when traveling long distance.

 

My car is a daily driver and I would absolutely NEVER go through the hassle of having to get specialized aircraft gas to fill it up every time, that sounds ludicrous.

 

Agreed, the key to remember is the issues likely stem from fuel overheating. Modern fuels contain ethanol which lowers the boiling point of the fuel. Keep the heat out of the fuel and you no longer have problems.

 

its the exhaust heating up the fuel causing an immense amount of pressure to keep the fuel from getting to the motor..happened to me today after a **** ton of traffic -____-

 

What were the temperatures in your city?

I am concerned that its the under-hood temps (not just exhaust, but including exhaust) leading to a hot return fuel. My fuel rails reached 154F and the fuel pump lost pressure when the tank reached ~124F.

Hope this helps.

 

mmmm..i wanna say between 75-80 but mind you..this is in dead stop and go traffic..the engine temp didnt get above 180 though thank youuuu champion

 

Yes it does sound Ludicrous, i was not saying i would do every time I need gas, was just going to check it out to see if it prevented it from heating and the car dying. I do hope we get to the bottom of the problem. I have not had one problem with the fuel getting hot this winter! We have had 80 deg last few days too. Still good! Its the 110 and hotter that really makes the difference.

 

Mike, you got th 3-row champion radiator too!!!! They are the bomb man. I bet your install was a PITA right? I still got issues with my pump whine. O well. It is what it is. Nobody has a concrete answer. Interesting I say.

 

dude mine was whining today after it shut off like mad..hopefully its not tomorrow

but yeah dude i got one and hell yeah dude -___- lol..dont even get me started

 

We've been through every possible cause I can think if if you read back through this thread.I've got machinery that was indestructible with proper maint.Every gasoline fuel system pre 2000? is having problems.I've had fuel filters dissolve.Rubber fuel lines turn brittle and crack.NOS stuff,not some old junk.I personally think it's an additive or an ethanol issue.The old comp. lines and seals are coming apart.I cured my car.I put a 67 vette 427 with a Mooneyham 12-71 and an Enderle Buzzard catcher on it.Anything less than 103 and it just laughs at me.I put two McAmis feul cells in the trunk.I can go to town and back(24 miles) easy.panhead

 

Chevy and Mikey, I already did go through the ludicrous hassle of getting aviation fuel and my car STILL stalled out when the fuel tank temperature got to ~127F.

Hope this helps...

 

Oh yeah,I agree with you.There is definitely pressure building up somewhere,heat related.Your bypass fuel is exiting an already hot tpi after going through steel lines bolted to your hot intake manifold with steel brackets.The whole thing is a heat sink.I considered the return line pressure regulator on my left front fender,
.The thing ruined a whole lot of my summer,getting stuck in the middle of no-where.My vette did the same thing.I was parking them next to each other hoping they'd get hit by LIGHTNING.It's 50 degrees here now.Now my factory alarm system has been posessed.I never thought I'd say this but thank God for cell phones.panhead

 

If it's just due to heat, shouldn't the problem have been there since it rolled off the assembly line? It was just as hot back in the 80's as it is today.

I haven't experienced this problem with my car so far, but this has been an interesting thread.

 

Yes,exactly.That's why I think there is some other factor.The fuel comp. is all I could rationally come up with.Drove my vette yesterday,could hear the primer circuit whining when I shut it off,again when I restarted it.I could'nt when I left and it was cold.I guess I'll go out and see what it does this morning.At least my alarm system worked correctly.The mice that live in my dash have either gone south or moved into the house.panhead.

 

Anyone ever got anywhere with this? I'm having the same issues. Stock car only modification was hedman shortys. New delphi pump, injectors, filter, ignition module, relay. I'm about to replace the ecm. I've tried blowing out the lines.

 

Its not the ECM, don't waste your money.

I'm convinced its fuel heat related. Last time mine died was after it was on the dyno for 90 minutes. As soon as it died I slapped a fuel pressure gauge on it. Started it up, and it only went to about 15psi and quickly dropped until the engine died again. So its clearly a fuel delivery issue. Let the car cool for 2 hours and it runs great again. I am in the process of rerouting my fuel lines away from the headers. I see you have headers as well, check to see how close the fuel lines run to the headers where the lines exit the back of the engine bay.

 

Thats exactly what my car did. Unhooked I hold 45psi and hooked up I hold 35psi. When the pump starts getting loud after 45 minutes of driving I can hook the gauge up and wait a few minutes and I drop to 8-10psi instantly and the car will only idle rough. Then all of the sudden it will shoot pressure right back to normal momentarily and then die. Car always starts right back up but as long as its hot it'll only run for a minute or so and then it dies. Is it possible something is causing the pumps to produce to much heat.

 

Did you read my post???

I am in the process of rerouting my fuel lines away from the headers. I see you have headers as well, check to see how close the fuel lines run to the headers where the lines exit the back of the engine bay.

My theory is the heat source is from the exhaust, not the pump itself.

 

Not to be ling winded, and I'm not sure how much this will help street application, here's what we did to our 88 Camaro road racer:

- Header wrap (reduced underhood temps dramatically.

- Rerouted fuel lines (both inlet & return) away from engine and along top of left fender).

- Changed fuel lines to braided/shielded lines.

- Added heat deflectors over fuel lines where they enter/exit engine compartment (driver side).

- Changed fuel pump to high pressure type (TPI, running BB ported TBI, full open exhaust, no emissions).

- Added fuel baffles in gas tank (tank is split in 1/3s now: center, left and right sides. Baffle doors let fuel in to center, but won't let it out). Keeps fuel pump fully submerged, even with low fuel levels.

- Converted EGR vent line to be fuel return line, then routed end of return line with fuel line so fuel returns to tank about 12" away from fuel pump. This may be biggest improvement to keep hot fuel away from fuel pump, whiches causes cavitation. Also allows fuel to cool before being pulled in again by fuel pump.

- Disconnected original fuel return line to become another fuel tank vent line.

 

If it helps, our road racer still vapor locked, even though exhaust is 2-1 and exits in front of right rear wheel. Hot exhaust by fuel tank in stock road car is probably contributing to problem but not primary cause.

 

In my case,I jerked the tank out,put a fuel cell in with two inch line and put a blower on it.Problem solved let me know what you figure out though.It bugs me that we never figured it out.panhead

 

I am not talking about back at the tank. I am talking about how close the OEM fuel lines get to aftermarket headers in the engine bay. My lines are within 3/4" of the first and last header tubes on the drivers side.

To rectify this situation, I am converting my fuel rails for rear inlet and exit. This will eliminate the problem with lines being close to the headers. I am also getting my headers and y-pipe ceramic coated and have added a layer of insulation to the underside of the gas tank. I will probably also header wrap the muffler as well. Overkill is good.

 

Yes, very close there. We put aluminum shielding between the header/exhaust and the fuel lines. Also did header wrap.

 

I have a feeling this thread will be laid wide open in the summer months.
I have done some work on my car and hope I don't have this problem in the hottest part of the summer. If so I will really regret selling my honda..lol

 

I've done a fuel pump replacement since last summer when I was having problems and I noticed when I did it something that was brought up earlier in the thread somewhere. My little filter sock was rotated so that it was directly under the return line. When I installed my new one I aligned the sock so that it wasn't under the return line. I hope that this solves my issue and I've even noticed that my new pump has absolutely no whine after driving for long periods of time. The real test will be when it starts getting REALLY hot, but hopefully that's not for a while I'm really enjoying these 85 degree days

 

Nice 85IROCzzz, Arizona here also, please let us know when the temps get above 100 deg.... if the problem is solved

 

Hey guys, I'm having this same issue so I thought I contribute to the thread. My car only seems to only die out after driving more aggressively on the highway (like going 3/4 - wot, basically having fun ).

As I'm coming back from school (about 12 miles one way) if I'm not driving conservatively that's when the fuel, or whatever the problem is, overheats. I lose power, backfiring through the intake, stall then not being able to idle until I wait a few minutes like you guys have to.

I also wanted to mention that my car is pretty much all stock too(heck I still have the stock 85 airbox ewww). Like you guys I checked the heatshield above the muffler, if the fuel lines are near anything etc.
The fuel pump was recently replaced as well. My fuel pump is annoyingly loud all time no matter what the fuel tank level is.

I noticed that when this problem crops up the car is slowly dying at idle (idle is slowly dropping 500-> 400 ->300 rpm -> dead) I hear the fuel pump stop howling its head off and go quiet. Not completely silent like dead, just the normal hissing sound of a fuel pump not screaming its annoying head off lol.
When the car is "overheated" I try turning the key on to hear the pump prime. I found that instead of the usual howling it makes priming, it quietly primes for a second or two before howling for the last second of priming.

I don't know if this helps at all, just wanted to throw it out there.

 

A few days ago, when coming to a stop, my Camaro died. I had the same characteristics as everybody. I disconnected the battery for about 5 seconds, reconnected, and drove home without a problem. Maby you guys should do the same (disconnect the battery) after a stall just to see if you can eliminate a heated fuel problem, or a ECM problem.

 

My car has a reman ecm thats about 3 days old and it did it literally 10 minutes ago. The ecm that came out of my car was actually a reman. I drove it 45 minutes away. Let it sit for 2 hours and as soon as it started the whine was as loud as ever. I drove it a mile or so down the road and the noise slowed down. I made it within 1/2 a mile of home and bam it died. I tried playing with the vapor canister today to see if there was a filter and there wasn't it was solid all the way around. I then took the little switch deal off the canister and I couldn't get any vacumm out of it. I tried hooking the vacumm side up backwards and the car just tried to die. I honestly don't think the switch/solenoid is working on my car. Has anyone else tested it? All the auto parts stores tell me its not available.

 

Just last night I was reading on how to test the solenoid and canister. I have the GM Shop Manual PDF file. If I remember later on tonight, I'll post up some screen shots so that you can test out yours. Don't mean to hijack the thread but I'll start up a new thread in the general engine section. Now, shall we get back on topic?

 

Chevy86 you are such a gentleman And play buy the rules!!! lol
Just to add something to that last post, I also tried to get a charcoal canister and they no longer make them or have them. Went into auto store and they came back with a round pad filter and said this is what we have..hahah You can try to change out you solenoid thing that has all the vacuum hoses connected to it and change out the hoses. I am hoping mine runs good this summer. Ever sense I unpluged my MAF the car runs great!

 

Here is the link to the thread that shows you how to test the solenoid valve on the canister.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ml#post5226704

 

What I'm saying is I believe this could be whats causing my car to do what this thread is about. I don't really understand how its off topic. And thanks for the instructions.

 

If the solenoid on the canister is open too much when it shouldn't be open, it could be sending too much vaporized fuel into the intake and can be inriching the combustion chamber to the point that the air/fuel mixture cannot sustain proper ignition, I which you get a stall. Think about it. The topic on here is that the gas is pretty darn hot right. So with this said, there is a high pressure and it's gotta go somewhere. My guess is perhaps when the solenoid opens up and allows vapor to enter the intake stream, there is a very high concentration of vaporized fuel do to the intense heat of the fuel in the tank, and of course the high pressure of the tank. Just my 2 cents.

 

What Im saying is the solenoid isn't opening at all. not letting the engine pull the vapors out of the tank letting it build up pressure/heat therefore vapor locking the pump. The purpose of the canister is to absorb the vapors right? If the solenoid isn't opening then the vapors can't leave the tank.

 

This is not the case. I have watched my wide band 02 sensor when it happens. The car goes lean until it dies, not rich.

 

This is a good idea. However there is a secondary valve hanging off the gas tank to prevent the tank from over pressure. Sill something to look at though.

 

Yes. It's to pull the vapors from the tank. So if te solenoid ain't working properly, then you may that issue. If you believe that its vapor lock, then loosen the fuel cap and drive around. If you have no issues, then you'll know that your issue is VL.

 

Aha! Good point.

 

Well I just bypassed the canister all together and still the same problem. So you guys were right on that. Car didn't die but the pump got way loud so I know it didn't work. I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm scared to death to ride it. I can't get 45 minutes away from home before it quits. There has to be something we're all missing thats causing this.

 

I have driven my car around without the gas cap. It still does it. After its nice and hot and about to die you can see vapors coming out of the tank about 3 feet.

 

Good info.

The next test we need. Wait until the car dies and quick fill up the tank. Will the nice cold gas allow you to drive again for a while? That will tell us if its a gas heat issue.

 

I have not read all the pages in the thread and I apologize up front, but has anyone suggested incorporating/using PMW module to see if this corrects the problem.