sup thirdgen, im curious as to why do some people delete their EGR valve? what do the engines benefit from it, or lose? would like to further my knowledge =)

 

The EGR is an emissions controle device that controls NOx by cooling the cylinders. It does that by displacing some fresh air/fuel mixture with exhaust gasses resulting in a less intense ignition. BTW the EGR is in-op at WOT.

 

it does reburn unburnt fuel. thier are many pro egr guys and non egr guys on here. if i had the means to delete it I would. I really dont think not having it would hurt anything.

 

It may have been a cheap easy way to achieve a goal at the time but with fully computer controlled engines it would seem to be redundant. As long as the engine and all sensors etc. are functioning correctly the computer should be able to ensure the engine runs at the right temperature and doesn't emit anything it's not supposed to. The egr is just one more thing to make you fail emissions and the 3 solenoid electronic ones are really expensive.

 

thanks =)

 

wot, you mean as in when we slam the pedal to the floor?

what do i need to do in order to delete the EGR properly and not get a ses light? or codes.

 

yup

 

yup as in wide open throttle

 

oh ok, i see. so, what do i need to do to properly delete the EGR to prevent codes and a ses light?

 

You have to have a custom chip burned or set the chip parameters so the the EGR is never commanded "on". NO EGR valve, solenoid, EGR diagnostic temp sensor and related wiring and the ECM will set a Code 32. EGR lowers the peak combustion temperatures and reduces NOx. EGR is inoperative in park or neutral, when the coolant is below 176 deg. F, or the TPS at idle or WOT.

 

I run without EGR and it's fine. If I had a new engine I'd keep it just for the sake of cleaner exhaust but I don't think in my case it would change anything.

EDIT: To be clear I also custom programmed the PROM to eliminate the EGR so it doesn't throw a code, which it did when I removed the EGR before changing the PROM.

 

Egr does effect WOT. My car made less power at WOT with a disconnected egr. I would keep it connected.

 

While this is theoretically true (Be sure to read "The Lowdown on Code 32" in the technical articles section which goes into great detail on EGR operation and the results of an EGR delete WITHOUT a custom chip), What I can say is that my car started throwing a code 32 awhile back whenever I would cruise on the highway and EGR was supposed to function.

While I was under the hood not too long doing various repairs/modifications, I completely removed the EGR system as the whole tract in the intake manifold was carbon clogged and the temp sensor was possibly bad. I blocked off the EGR opening at the manifold and removed the EGR valve, EGR temp sensor, Vacuum solenoid and tubing. I went back on the road fully expecting my car to trip a code 32 until I could modify the PROM.

It's been 700 miles and I haven't had a CEL yet. YMMV...

 

You should burn a chip to fix that..

and to reply to the EGR at WOT.. EGR only works when the car is at cruising/highway speeds.. It's not on at WOT so it wouldn't make a difference. It's not 'needed' really, but if you disconnect it, you should do it the right way or risk damaging your engine and "losing" power and mileage at cruising speeds (once you go on the highway that's when it throws the 32 code, not at WOT, well it did for me anyway). The way it works is that timing is increased as the EGR functions, so the EGR system is made to cool off the cylinder temps from the increased timing by recycling exhaust gasses, and at the same time theoretically polluting the environment less, but these EGR systems get clogged alot so it's not worth keeping IMO unless by law you're 'supposed' to keep it *wink wink*

I guess the point is that if you remove it and neglect the EGR settings in the PROM, then you will risk damaging your engine (probably from increased cylinder heat)

 

Well, I gained power at cruising speeds with no egr and lost power at WOT with no egr. Now this is with the rear solenoid hose disconnected from the solenoid. It is the same hose that goes from the egr valve itself to the solenoid.

 

I have a 89 formula 350 and my EGR, A.I.R., "false" knock sensor hasn't been on my car since 92. No codes, no nothing, stock chip..
I do believe the SD cars are a lil different. I unhooked the knock sensor on my 92 formula and bang, a code instantly...

 

I'm not sure how that would work but I have a block off plate and the whole thing removed. I've had no problems with WOT.

 

dont use a block of plate, if you do it do it right with a non egr intake, if you use the block off the stuff going in you egr cylinder will just sit in your intake

 

And if you use a non EGR intake the stuff going to your EGR will just sit in the head

There's nothing wrong with using a block-off plate. In fact, I can't think of any crowd except for the carb guys who even have the option of a non EGR intake.

 

oh, i didnt know they didnt make trottle body intakes with out, my bad

 

You will lose power without egr connected. Power loss is at WOT. You may gain power at part throttle with no egr,but thats about it. Needs to be removed in the chip too. I don't recommend it tho. It is emission related. You may or may not pass your local emissions.

 

How do you lose power at WOT if the EGR is shut off at WOT be default in the chip?

 

You lose power because your timing is de-creased at WOT without egr.

 

I felt a gain at part throttle driving without my egr (egr solenoid rear hose disconnected). Much zippier around town and felt like higher compression, but at WOT , there was a power loss.

 

Keep on thinking that deleting the EGR without a new calibration is gonna make more power.

The article was referenced on TGO in many threads, but here is a direct quote as it applies to performance.

Full Article: https://www.thirdgen.org/egrdiagnose

 

Plain and simple. Car is slower with egr disconnected. Meaning egr solenoid rear hose disconnected). My car was much slower at WOT this way ,yet much faster during normal driving.

 

This is 100% false.

The power loss if any will occur during cruising conditions. This is due to the fact that when the ECM commands the EGR on, it will anticipate lower cylinder temps to follow and thus will increase the timing. Without the exhaust gasses from the EGR to lower temps however the increase in timing will cause pinging and the ECM will pull timing back to stop it.

At WOT, the EGR is commanded OFF. Therefore there is no increase in timing related to EGR operation and resultant pinging leading to pulled timing.

As I stated before, I was getting a code 32 at a high frequency before I deleted my EGR. Now without the EGR I have not gotten a single code but I should still disable it in the PROM once I get the burning equipment.

 

Nooooooooo, uh uh. Power loss is at WOT. Increase of power is at part throttle. I have tested this over and over and over again. This is what i have experienced and my car is running tip top. Uh, speedometer climbs way slower at WOT
with the egr disabled. Now, Around town , and i will say it again , It runs better. Much smoother and more power at part throttle driving.

 

I have tested this over and over. Disconected rear egr solenoid hose and drove car. Just unplugged the rear hose from the solenoid. There are 2 hoses there. Rear hose goes from solenoid to egr valve and the front hose goes from solenoid to throttle body. Disconnecting rear hose from solenoid, is like disabling egr valve as far as i know. Just let it bleed out to the air.

 

Just disconnecting the hose without plugging it would result in a vacuum leak.

I'm not going to argue with you. Your results are backwards. It's either a placebo effect or another underlying problem with your car. The evidence is only a couple posts up but why you are ignoring it is beyond me

 

Your butt dyno does not equate to anything.

 

I also have it disabled in the chip.

 

..................

You cannot "disable" a vacuum leak

 

if i get an egr from another car (that is in better condition than mines of course) and switch them, will that fix my possible bad egr valve..or is it more to it than just switching the valves over? wanted to delete it but after all these egr delete posts, i think im good LOL but just want this code gone. im almost positive its the egr cause i get a code AS SOON AS i turn onto the highway lol but around town...or at least under 55mph ((shhh..im a speeder))...no code...help

 

If you have the cash I would go ahead and buy an EGR valve which typically run around $50 new. It's rarely worth it IMO to get parts from a junkyard that stand a very good chance to be DOA or are going to go out again very soon in the near future.

But to answer your question, yes, if your EGR itself is what the problem is. If you get a used one I would at least clean it out good with some throttlebody/carb spray.

 

Why is there always a smart *** reply? I am telling you from personal experience what happens when it is disabled.

 

what results do i have reversed. SO, basically you are now saying that increased power at WOT is a result of a disabled egr valve?

 

I'm saying that ZERO difference at WOT is the result of a deleted EGR valve. Forget it man, seriously. You seem to have alot of trouble understanding.

 

Well then, sorry bro you maybe right, but that is what happens on mine. I guess the other members may have a different exp.

 

What FireDemon is saying cannot be more correct. As I said earlier (which you completely disagree with based on your "seat of the pants" feeling) EGR is not even commanded at WOT so it would not make a difference anyway. It's quite possible that your EGR might have been malfunctioning and was causing a problem.. Also, by just unplugging it, will throw a code and unless you change parameters in the PROM.

EGR is only commanded at a certain speed, engine temperature, RPM or throttle position so when all of these variables are met, that is when you would see the ECM command the EGR (which increases timing by 2* as a result of lower cylinder temps). Again, EGR is never commanded at WOT, only during part throttle/highway cruising. The reason the timing is advanced by 2* is because it will increase fuel economy, and the reason it doesn't ping is because of the cooler combustion chambers as a result of the EGR..

It doesn't matter what you feel in your car, that is not based on facts. But if you want to know an actual fact: when you unplug the EGR, you will throw a code which will actually reduce power. I will explain how.

You unplug the EGR, then you drive on highway, the computer still thinks to increase timing by 2*, but your cylinder temps are not cooled down because there actually isn't any EGR anymore, so your engine starts to ping, and as a result the ECM pulls 4* of timing, therefore you actually LOSE 2* of timing compared to before! So, you can easily see how unplugging EGR without disabling it in the chip can 1) hurt performance, and 2) potentially wear out the engine quicker..

Yes, you lose 2* of timing even if you physically remove EGR AND delete it in the PROM, but who cares, it's part throttle highway cruising..

And by the way if you are so concerned about 2* of timing and power at part throttle highway cruise, just buy a 160* thermostat and run your car 20 to 30 degrees colder and bump timing in the PROM, I'm sure you'll get a much more 'seat of the pants' feel by doing that rather than unplugging the EGR.

 

true that. and $50 new is a WEEEEEEE bit tacky for my taste. especially since its not THAT big a deal. *UnderCover89TBI* said he rode around for 2yrs before doing something about it. but i may end up just hitting up the boneyard anyway. ill have to think on that. are there any electrical equipment within the egr that i wouldnt want carb cleaner on?? alot of people i know soak things in gas for a bit to clean the grime and anything else off things

 

EGR system is the main key for the "Highway mode", to save fuel by crusing.

Just like described in post #25 and #40.

 

Yo it sounds like i have a bad egr. Can i just change the parameters so it doesnt even try to turn on? Instead of doing a whole delete?

 

Yes, assuming you have 90-92 tpi $8d mask it’s based off coolant temp

 

It would be better to fix it. You are looking at losing 1-4 mpg under cruise conditions if the EGR is non-functional. Higher combustion temps which could lead to reduced engine life, and may cause some detonation - especially if the ECU goes into lean cruise and tries to increase the timing when it expects EGR to be in play.

GD

 

Holy thread bump!

 

Does this go for ccc cars? Or is it a tbi thing? Just wanted to leave the smog stuff off and block off egr. Not really worried about performance but would like better fuel economy. Its a 87 carb option trans am

 

Why do people delete the EGR valve?

Because they are ignorant.

 

Deleting the EGR valve will decrease the fuel economy.

A Toyota Camary gets good fuel economy.

 

Theres a productive comment, I get it.. its beat to death, just got mine a little hacked up and trying to figure out what's really needed.