OK guys long story short i threw a rod on number three..Im not willing to take the risk with the heads on a shortblock swap..Is there a longblock out there that is reasonably priced that will taske my tpi setup? Or am I in trouble here

 

When I replaced the motor in my Vett I purchased a short block a 355 and put the heads, Cam Ect I wanted.

Word to the wise tear the short block down to a bare block clean everything out oil Passageways.

The 355 lasted 3400 miles before it ate it self there was crud on the oil passaways when they rebuild it.

The short block was sold as is I knew that when I purchased it so as long I had to put a new crank bearings hone it ect mite as will make it a 383.

When I started preping the block cleaning it I found out they sleaved Number 3 cylinder that cracked the block I called the Block builder they end up replacing the short block I paid the differnce and got 383.

When the New Short block showed up I tore it down to a bare block and cleaned it out there was a lot crud in this block also it was anouther time bomb waiting to happen so what I telling you tear it down before installing it in to your car.

I out the time and man hours changing the motor twice new cam lifters, timing chain, New roller rocker arms, gaskets, fuilds ect.

Oh ya get the 383 I wish I did that from the get go cost a little more but worth it.

 

I just did a lot of research on this. This is the best deal on a long block that with the Vortec TPI intake will drop right in with no tuning or major mods is the L31 Vortec truck motor with hyd. roller cam. Is rated at 255hp.

http://paceperformance.com/i-6484921...-8600-gvw.html

 

You have to change the intake manifold base for the vortec heads.

I looked at this motor my self but it dont have the heads that pass CA smog.

Thats whyI built my own motor combo.

 

L31 shortblock for just over $1000, have the heads cleaned, checked, and rebuilt, for a couple hundred, put it back together and be on your way.

I know you said no short block, but this EASILY the way I'd go unless you wanted to do some major upgrading.....

 

Ab that was my original plan until i found the 2 pushrods were bent on the number three..Also found some marks in the piston where the valve hit it..Problem is price around here ..Im in Ny one guy qouted me 545 to clean look over heads plus whatever parts are needed..Another guy qouted my 400 plus 60 per head for cutting if needed..Plus parts..I looked hard at that L31 shortblock.. its 1300 shipped to my door plus oil pan and some parts im still looking at the 2k range..For that kind of money i might as well try and do some upgrading.. Believe me lol i dont want to spend the money i just put 3k into paint but my whole engine i believe is trashed

 

I hear what you're saying, but to some extent, I think you're kinda stuck. Assuming you go new, I don't see getting out any cheaper. You're not gonna find heads cheaper than the amount your machinist is looking for, unless you go vortec, but then of course you need the manifold, so you're still actually paying more. At least then, you get the performance bump.

 

You can get the L31 longblock for $1,900 and are only an intake base swap from making it a drop in replacement.

 

yea i am looking at that l31 drop in as well..Just really tired of spending money on this thing..I have some nice looking garage art right now lol..I actually have my eye on an atk 350 hp vortec engine as well i figure if im fonna spend the cash i might as well get some hp..Or i may sell the damn thing as a roller at this point

 

If you are looking for high horsepower you my want to check out the Yearone Vortec motor. It has ported Vortec's, the LT4 hot cam, makes over 400 hp, and sells for 3k. It is a screaming deal. Since it is a hotcam motor you can run it with Fuel Injection.

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...5&cat=C&trk=22

 

I've been looking for the exact same thing.
I think I'm going to go with

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance...oductId=752506

If you aren't looking to get more than a stock replacement for daily driving it is hard to find a better deal

(Supercharger down the road if you want more later)

 

That year one motor is a good deal, however, you'd still need a manifold to run the TPI on it, PLUS, that cam isn't ideal for long runner TPI's or really even Vortec heads. Now they do say the heads are ported, but the beauty of the head is the chamber and runner making GREAT efficiency. Ya start messin' with that and you can mismatch the engine parts in a hurry. Best bet (and what I believe the intent was) is to just throw on a carb.

...and the Jegs motor is non roller motor, with dumpy heads, tiny cam, cast crank, and a 2 pc. rear main seal. Cheap, yes. Good deal, I don't think so. The L31 is more expensive, but you get SOOOO much more for your money.

 

but for a daily driver or cruising car will there be any difference?
the jegs GM crate is rated 260hp vs 255hp for the L31

If cost is a concern
the jegs engine is $500 cheaper and you don't need the vortec base.

I'm interested to know if you don't plan any other modification is there a big difference in performance.

If you have the extra money the L31's higher compression and heads are nice but will you see a difference on the street?

Does anyone have any performance data on the L31 or gm crate?

the stock GM crate was tested by superchevy (then supercharged)
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ine/index.html

I would love to see the difference in the power curves if anyone has them for the L31.

 

Long term, the L31 is just a much better choice. Rear seal, crank, roller cam options.... short term, figure performance is cam and heads, given the OP wants to run TPI. Figure both cams are tiny, so you figure taking out the cam. That being said, only the L31 can accomodate a roller cam. ...and heads, well you couldn't choose a worse set of heads for a low flow, high velocity intake like the TPI.

Don't get me wrong, when on a budget, yes, it IS cheaper, and all GM crates are quality, I just can't see using the heads, block, cam, crank....basically ANYTHING from that GM crate. If it was all I could afford, I'd wait, save, beg, borrow, steal, whatever!!!!! ...while it IS more expensive, everything but the cam from the L31 is a very viable part for even a stout 350.

 

ok guys i was hoping for a 300 hp flywheel rating on an engine i could run tpi on. Looks like i may go with the atk engine, its rated at 351 hp 380 torque I believe..There using vortec heads on it so i will have to buy a new base..At this point it may actually be cheaper to scrap the tpi idea and go Carb on that engine..You would not believe how hard it is to find a 300hp roller cam and a one piece rear main at reasonable price,or at all for that matter..If this car didnt come out so well when we painted it i really would just sell it..I have 100 hours labor in it just in paint..

 

This Jegs motor is a low tech piece of junk. Horrible heads, flat tappet cam and lifers, low compression. There is not one good part on this thing. But the L31 is just getting started for power and packed with awesome parts to start with.

 

The cam in the ATK 350 hp motor is not Fuel Injection friendly. You would be better off with the Year one motor. The Hot Cam is easy to tune for Fuel Injection or great to run with a carb. The Year one is basically the Scoggin Dicky TPI crate motor for $1,500 less.

 

Vortec heads and a Hot Cam are a match made in heaven. It is a well proven power maker. I know people with that motor. My buddy got his with a dyno sheet laying down 426hp!! And it makes every bit of it. The port work is just them putting in the bigger valves like the upgraded gm vortecs and fast burns have and machining the heads for the bigger springs. They do not mess with the runners.

 

Dont get me wrong that yearone motor looks to be like a good one but, after shipping and the intake i have to adapt ..That 3k motor is almost 4k ..I have a slightly smaller budget on this .Looking for more like a 3k total..Atk is shipping free right now hence the reason i was looking at them..Carolina engines seem to be reasoably priced right now too.I have been searching the net for 2 weeks looking for a decent solution i may look a little harder at that L31 long block

 

If you get the L31 long block and do a quick cam swap on it to the Crane 2030 cam that would put you right at about 290 hp and you would still be completely TPI friendly.

http://www.cranecams.com/product/car...detail&p=24199

 

Any headwork required on that or is it plug and play?..that 290 is right bout where i want to be..

 

Nope, that Cam is mild enough to work with stock Vortec and L98 heads.

 

Also, if you want to run a little bigger cam but still tpi friendly you go with the Crane 2032 cam but then you will need to get a beehive spring kit. The Crane beehive spring kit will also require no machining to the heads. The 2032 will put right at about the 300 hp mark with Vortecs.

http://www.cranecams.com/product/car...detail&p=24200

http://www.cranecams.com/product/car...detail&p=25988

 

ironic i have that 2032 cam in the motor that blew up maybe ill pull that baby out and have it checked

 

I bet that 2032 cam is just fine. It's pretty hard to hurt a roller camshaft.

Then all you need is the L31 Long Block, the Crane Spring kit, Vortec TPI intake, and you are in business!!

 

LT4 Hotcam SD $204 Summit $221.00 If you need springs I using Lunati 73943LUN $70.00 A chip from PCM for less custon chip $250.00
I heard you can run the stock chip but with a custom chip it run so much better.

This is the best the to spend a couple hudred more in a cam before you drop the motor in it can be done with the motor in car but it a Pain.

I was thinking of having a custom Cam made for my build but so far I been real happy with the LT4 Hotcam and the price is great not like the $400.00 custom cam I wanted.

Like they said it will work well with TPI pass smog good price you can reuse the lifters you getting in the new long block timing chain ect.
You have to find out what the valve springs can handle will work with either 1.5 or 1.6 Rockers arms.

I had Aluminim full roller rockers in my 355 they OK I went with Comp Cam Ultra Magnum steel full roller rockers arm yes the cost a lot but you dont have to worry about the breaking on you or changing them peace of mind.

But that can be done down the road after you get some more cash saved if you think about ever going with the 1.6 rocker arms just orderd valve springs that can handle the extra .030 more lift so you dont have to do it again swap valve spings.

Same for the chip it will run with out the custom chip for now.

But I still have the 1.5 Aluminum RRA and the chip for the 355 I make you a killer deal on I also have a set of used rolller lifters a a can out of a HO Z28 I was told I never used.

 

How do you figure? Does heaven have tech data? A smaller cam can make similar (if not slightly less) peak power, but MUCH more under the curve. ...OR bigger heads with the LT4 HC will make much more than the Vortecs with the LT4 hotcam. The vortecs were purpose built to be a torquey, efficient, UNDER the curve head using high port velocity. They're great, but they're not BIG! To use them as such just makes them another iron head.


....the TPI shines when down low and efficient, using port velocity. It's ideal to sacrifice duration for lift, with a ceiling of about 220 duration. (less then the HOTCAM). Also, the Vortecs are very similar. They're effectiveness comes from port velocity and an efficient chamber. Once lift hits .500, that efficiency falls off quickly. (again, less than the HOTCAM). I'm not saying the HC won't be fun, and make power. I'm saying if you don't already have it, or have a buddy with one cheap, they're are MUCH MUCH better suited cams for a Vortec TPI.

 

Just me I would go with anouther head 180"s I have 195 on mine 355 I wish I would went with 180's it a DD street car.

When I built my 355 I was going with 170's I was talked out of them for some longer runners that gave me more mid range and topend type power but I think If I went with 180's I been happyer.

I think stock are like 160 or 165 very small L98 heads.

But I had a small cam a 214/214 duration .447/.447 lift 110 C/L 24# Injectors 9.5 to 1, 1000 to 5200 RPM range cam 350 H/P 400 TQ.

For a DD street car how offen I wind the motor up to red line once or twice just to see what it could do thats when the 195 or larger comes in to there own higher rev's.

I think the 195 lost some of it bottom end power I was told not much but then again it a DD where you want the grunt but I think the 2500 stall helps make up for it but just think if had 180 heads more grunt off the line power.

But Now I have the same heads on my 383 with the LT4 cam so now the 195 mite be a better deal the motor needs more CFM bigger pump more air it pulls.

Oh ya the 170 heads I was looking at had 202 intake and 160 Exhaust vales I found a set of 175 heads with 190 In & 160 Ex work good for a street motor that not reved high the larger valve lets breath more and eayer upon top where it needs the flow, the 180's had the big valve 202 and 160 so did the 195.

Bigger the displacment with the same cam lowers the RPM working range I think LT4 working range in a 350 is 1800 to 5800 RPM's with the 383 I still In my range I want it to work it 1100 to 5500 RPM range it a street car DD gets me to work and back.

My wife took my SUV away from me dont laugh I could happen to you also her V10 truck just sits now.

Oh ya it dont mather what cam you go with the stock TPI dont flow I have a Hi flow TPI base and runners, heads and long tube headers with either motor it needs to flow to run so even you put $10000.00 In to the valve train if it dont flow it wont go.

Even with the 383 hot cam motor with intake and exhaust on paper I getting 425 H/P and 485 T/Q if it was a 355 or 350 take away 40 to 50 H/P and T/Q as a rule of thumb.

Dont forget about TQ converter stall what you need to make things work together and injector size plus, Computer chip.

Still get 26 MPG Hwy and sucks gas around town LOL 10 ish I think mostly open HWY driving around here.


It get better MPG than my SUV oh my wifes SUV LOL.

I have at least $5000.00 + in my motor $2000.00 in trans and converter.

I would get a short block or get your rebuilt put a nice cam set up look around for a set of good heads go from there but 383 bud all the way cost a little more up front but well worth it.

 

Thinking about it a guy at work had his L98 rebuilt bearings rings hone for around $700.00.

I know you need heads my T/F heads were $1100.00 + I had to put diffrent vavle springs now for the LT4 cam extra $70.00 I seen other heads for about the same price range just remember you can run higher compresion with Aluminum heads and get away with it much easyer than Iron heads on pump gas.

Roller motors In my mind are the way to go OEM block much cheeper to build than a retro fit roller motor a flat tappet chepper than both to build.

Hint Hint you can get a semi roller block out of a 1986 and latter block out of a truck for cheep 4 bolt main all the bosses for the roller motor are there you just have to drill and tap the block to install the roller cam plate and spider for the lifters thats what I did.

If you go with a OEM block as I did it only cost a coulpe hundred more to have a roller if you look around and go about it the right way.

Than a flat tappet motor if you add everything up retro fiting to a roller motor what cost a extra grand to make in to a roller.

OEM GM cams are cheep and lifters Ect.

Oem Cam new low $200.00 range Lifter New $120.00 OEM harden type push rods OEM lenght $35.00 aftermarket Cam $300.00 +, Retro fit Lifters $00.00+, shorhter push Rods $100.00+ to give you a Idea.

Flat tappet Lifters and cam $200.00 range Push rods $35.00.

I have a OEM GM HO cam, cam roller lifters, 214/214 Hyd Flat tappet cam with low miles on it, 1.5 full Aluminin roller rocker arms with Poly Locks, push rods for the set up, Stock non harden push rods for the roller and harden push rods for the flat tappet cam, Chip, 5 Qt Kelvo racing oil pan and oil pick up with Pump for a drivers side dip stick for 2 PC seal motor with windage tray, Just let me know I make you a killer deal it just taking space in my garage.

They just have dust on them needs to be wiped down and put in.

 

think im gonna run with that L31 long block maybe cam it, still looking in the 3k range with that setup complete..I know they rate that at 255 hp and like 340 tq give or take a few here..i am assuming thats with stock exhaust manifolds etc.. i wonder what the ratings are with a free flowing exhaust and possibly a decent intake like a carb and edelbrock performer or eq...

 

Now that there is funny....how do you figure its not EFI friendly? We have had many customers use this engine in TPI and VORTECH applications without a problem.