I need to relocate the knock sensor on 88 model 5.7 tpi due to block hugger headers any suggestion I'm having to run timing at 2 deg btdc to stop valve rattle at high rpm thanks

 

I thought that you just posted that you fixed that problem by replacing the MAF. Same person?

 

There's an oil passage plug a few inches above the oil filter boss that the knock sensor should fit into. Just be sure to seal it very good.

 

It's back started this afternoon on the way home thought I might put it on and see if it makes a deference with timing set at 2btdc lost a little power and we all need more power will the hole above the oil pressure sending unit obove oil filter work

 

you can use this as well.

http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KB-41

http://www.summitracing.com/search/D.../?autoview=SKU

 

On MAF cars I unplug and remove knocksensors and plug the hole.
Unless my cars are flukes there are no codes set either.

 

Thanks guys never had to run one on this motor before never has set a code rebuilt the engine after it spun a rod bearing built back with new crank rods and 10.5 flat tops been fine for 7 months just started rattling one day readjusted valves and had to drop timing to get it to stop think it might have been caused by bad maf replace it noise stopped for a day came back dropped timing to 0 btdc rattle stopped but motor sounds like a v6 sometime definate loss in power hope putting a knock sensor and putting the timing back to 6 btdc Fixes prblm

 

Ok set timing back to 6 btdc from stop to wot no valve rattle at 60 to 65 miles steady throttle valves rattle a little give alittle gas no rattle lift foot little rattle running ethanol free 93 just thought of something I have never had vss wire hooked up this motor is in a 94 yj jeep with a atlas transfer case there is no place to hook up a speedo or vss sensor checking speed with a gps unit

 

If you're getting this rattle when you let off the gas pedal completely, then you don't have spark knock.

 

What do u think it is I've checked valves 3 times running hot adj 0 lash 1/4 turn first time 1/2 second time 3/4 turn last u think I could b loosing the cam lobes hydrolic rollers new rockers new push tubes everything was new except cam cam was checked was in spec

 

That's a good question. You never said why you think that the noise is your valves.
I don't know why you think your valves would be making noise when you let off the gas and not when on the gas, unless the lifters are losing oil pressure.

 

It just sounds like valve rattle oil pressure has not changed when this happens runs around 60 psi on gauge never drops Same noise at cruise speed 60 to 65 mph as when I lift can put it under load going up hill never makes a sound stop to wot rattle sound at high rpm trans shifts rattle goes away hits fourth gear cruising rattle sound comes back not always there just sometimes

 

Do you think this is spark knock and not valve rattle gona put a knock sensor on and see if it fixes it have never had one on it in the past before I built it been running for about 8 months on new rebuild and this noise just started one day

 

Auto trans??? check your flexplate for cracks around the crankshaft bolts. Yes you have to drop the trans to fix it.

 

a cheat is to cut off the heads of a few bolts and slot the ends so you can use a screw driver to install them. These will act like long dowels to slide the tranny back aways to remove the flywheel to engine bolts.

 

Great tip!
I have a lift and trans jack soooo its been quite awhile since I did one on the floor!!

 

So this would make it sound like the valves rattling

 

700 r4

 

when I went back with it I put new flex plate and mini high tourqe starter I know new stuff can b crap but what would Cause that?????

 

Also why would the noise go away when I dropped timing to 0 btdc

 

Noise also went away after new maf was installed gone for a day came back that's when I started messing with timing trying to retard till it went away at 0 btdc never made a sound I think it may have been a coincidence the noise went away after I replace maf

 

Is this all on stock tune? 93 sounds like plenty for your compression but it sounds like its spark knock because timing at cruise is HIGH if these are anything like my fords. Installing knock sensor sounds like a good plan to me. Any hole that's the right thread size in the block (1/4npt iirc) should work.

 

All stock except for 10.5 flat tops everything is new except for cam stock tune on computer y'all think the jump in compression is causing the knock which I'm mistaking the sound for valve rattle

 

It's possible, what's stock? 9.8? Seems unlikely but I've seen stock engines spark knock on regular unleaded, modern fuels SUCK.

 

Think it's 9.5 but still not that big of a difference it just weird that been fine for 7 or 8 months and then noise started the noise is deffinatley cause by high rpm left work today and drove through town speed limit is 45 never made a sound shifting every gear cruising at 45 never made a sound taking my foot off the gas and letting it coast nothing Just like it should at 65 I'm turning like 2400 this is due to one ton axles on 42" tires gear ratio 5:13 I'm dropping the gear ratio back to 4:56 in a couple weeks Use to run 44s rpm at 65 rpm was around 1800

 

Knock sensor fixed my problem thanks guys

 

Cool. Thanks for posting a fix.

 

If the knock sensor "fixed" it, then in reality you have problems that the knock sensor is just compensating for. The knock sensor is telling the computer to pull timing, and in doing so is making the knock go away. Why is it knocking in the first place? It either has too much total timing, or there is a problem causing knock with correct timing. This problem still needs to be found. The knock sensor just put a band aid on the problem.

 

Unless its his higher than stock compression with sub par fuel.....

 

Or the knock sensor is just.... bad.
they pickup waaay to much false knock for me.

 

Ok this motor never had a knock sensor on it for four years ran like a champ never had any prblms all pollution stuff was removed years ago I rebuilt motor due to spun rod bearing which these motors were notorious for opened oil return passages in lifter valley new crank rods pistons lifters push rods rockers head reworked new valves seats springs all new sensors except for maf motor has been great for 7 or 8 months just started one day sounded like valves ratteling at high rpms checked valve adj 0 lash running plus 1/2 turn replaced o2 sensor due to color of plugs looked like motor had been running a little lean drove no change replaced maf problem went away for a day timing is 6 deg btdc thought it might need the knock sensor because of higher compression and prbly carbon build up causing detonation due to crapy gas we now have to buy been running 93 in it since it was put back in jeep so you think there might be a underlying prblm that this is patching what would it be I'm open to all suggestion thought it might be I was loosing the lobes on cam at first it was checked everything was in spec

 

If you put the knock sensor and all is well, just drive it.... Knock sensor is there for a reason, I know a lot of people don't, but that doesn't mean nobody needs it. Unless some other problem turns up, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

A lot of places switch to a winter blend of gasoline when the temps drop to a certain level. The winter blend has more high-end volatiles for easier cold starting, but it does not tolerate as much spark advance once the engine is hot. this could be the change that caused it.
Also if you have changed the loading of the engine recently by dropping you rear ratio or adding taller tires, that will push you into spark knock if you were on the edge before.

 

No. For one, how do you conclude that it's picking up false knock? Just because you don't hear it doesn't mean it's not knocking. That's the whole point... A knock sensor detects mild levels of knock so the computer can compensate and eliminate it before it gets severe enough to cause damage (and be audible).

If the OP heard knock prior to changing the knock sensor, it means he had a problem in addition to the faulty knock sensor. He still has that problem.

 

It didn't even dawn on me to think about winter blend.... I bet this is exactly what it was...

 

With stock timming, My car would never run a worthwhile MPH in the quarter with it plugged in. Unpluged it and it picked up mph.
I could drive around with the scanner and watch it pull timing for no reason at all, on or off the throttle,(going down hill with very light throttle was my fav) with a new or the org sensor. It also took quite awhile to restore the normal timing after it pulled it out.
I pulled the motor after 5 years of daily driving, very hard running (91-3 octane)with NO knock sensor and the upper bearings were perfect.
Now, when I was doing this stuff, there wasnt a lot of tunning tools like there are today sooooo we did what made them more powerful but didnt hurt parts.
I'm going to hold my ground and say on MAF cars you can remove it if your smart about it. (SD will throw a code) But if you want to leave it in by all means do it..

We don't know 4 sure if it was knock he heard at all. For all we know, it could be piston rattle, cracked piston or a bad wrist pin. (I have seen that set off knock sensors) We are all just guessing at this point.
If he heard knock before he changed the sensor, then changed the sensor, it went away, I "guessed" the sensor was picking up false knock or went bad, they do just go bad. Now it seems there is a little more info from the OP.

 

Guys it never had a knock sensor on it till I put one on it sun the winter fuel blend makes since to me I live close to Nashville tn about the time the weather temp dropped is about the time I started hearing the knock put a scanner on it this afternoon stop to wot total adv was 30 deg at idle timing hanging around 16 17 readings from all my sensors were in range knock sensor detected 22 times in a 3 mile run retarded once 2 deg but it seems to b fine now with a knock sensor on it everything on this motor is new except cam the whole winter fuel makes since to me because I've been running this motor since may and it has been perfect

 

The only thing that has changed on the jeep since motor was installed was tire size went from 44" to 42" Tires running 513 gears not that big of diffrence in load on engine at 65 about 600 to 700 rpm but I changed the tires in August

 

Yup, winter fuel and cold denser air can cause that.. do you have K&N air filters and clean/oil them all the time??

 

Yep k&n cold air kit and clean filter every oil change

 

The day I put a new maf on and the noise went away temp here was in low sixties next day temp was about 45 noise came back

 

If you over oil the K&N that oil will coat the MAF sensor wire and screw with your fueling... Make sure your MAF sensor wire is clean!!

 

Yeah I don't over oil just a light spray cleaned the old maf crc maf cleaner readings were all over the place that's why I put a new one on

 

Again, that type of behavior is a clear sign of a problem. That is NOT normal behavior. I agree that a knock sensor can be eliminated if the motor is tuned properly, but if it is tuned properly and the knock sensor is functioning properly, there is no reason why you would want to eliminate it. My car never shows any knock counts. My timing curve is set properly. My car would run fine without the knock sensor, but having it there is a safety net for those times that I get a bad tank of gas or experience abnormal conditions.

If your car runs better without a knock sensor, your car has a problem, probably the knock sensor itself.

 

Yup, the problem is over sensitive knock sensors in the early days (Maybe just a huge bad batch). Even when installed w less tq than spec.
It got worse with roller rockers and faster cams, kinda like what happened when GM put roller rockers on the LT4, they needed a diff knock mod and or sensor to deal with it (which we didn't have). Had my car been tuned, it may have been different. Buuuut she was "stock" at the time and we were pushing them hard with stock parts and chips.
I guess I've had enuff knock sensor failures on mine and customers cars that I will never trust them enuff to be my safety net.

I do understand the how and Y they are supposed to work but in the early years they werent quite right. IMO