305sbc

iTrader: (3)

At what point did the 24 lb/hr injectors go on it?

Sojer

I dont think that would make the timing mess up but be4 I started the rebuild my stock 19 lbs injectors went out. I had some LT1 injectors laying around, but I got some new Bosch III 24 LBS injectors but they only fit the HSR I got. I sold the the HSR and injectors so I put the LT1s in.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

if your taking the 305 out then isnt this thread pointless?

85 ZXX

iTrader: (1)

I agree!!!

Sojer

No because I will be putting that top end on it. I know if i go carb i will be okay but I want to keep it EFI and I'm sure I will run into the same problem that's why its not pointless.

dabomb6608

iTrader: (3)

If it worked before the top end swap and doesnt work after then something was installed wrong. So my suggestion is when you do the 355 swap, check and check again for EVERYTHING. Simple as that.

Sojer

I did not much to it. what ever it its I dont know not a clue

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

Top end so possibilities are cam is installed wrong timing is very off valves overly tightened or not properly tightened vacuum leak etc. U have fuel air and spark obviously but something in there isn't right. U can't use a 305 chip with your 350 and fuel injection so thats money wasted on your part. Is your cap and rotor tight?

dabomb6608

iTrader: (3)

Lots of things can go wrong with a top end swap/rebuild. Heads/head gasket not sealing, not torqued right, valves set wrong, bad heads(i.e. burnt valves or other issues), intake installed without rtv at front/rear, intake gasket not sealing properly, not to mention the 4 runner gaskets possibly not sealing, throttle body gasket not sealing, vac hoses wrong, distributer installed off tooth or teeth(i.e. multiple tooths off), spark plug wires installed wrong, shall I continue? Im not trying to say you did a bad job at the swap or anything, its just that things go wrong. Its happened to everyone. But saying that you didnt do much to it when you did a top end swap is wrong.

Sojer

I did timing b4 on a sbc just not on tpi i did on sbf. But it will be checked over when i put it in. I know the 305 chip wont work with the 355 I have a custom chip from PCM for less and I just have to re tune it for the 355 its just 50 bucks.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

sbf has a completely different timing order and such. pcm for less is poopy do it yourself its easy and fun. tbi timing isnt any different than any other gen1 sbc.

Sojer

should valve lash be set to stock with rollor tip 1.52 rockers

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

my 1.5s like a little more than 1/2 turn and less than 3/4. on my drivers i do until it stops clicking then put then start with 1/4 final turn and if it feels like it needs more go 1/2 and so on.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

What did you do in regards to your EGR?

Sojer

nothing blocked it off i have a chip with it all tuned out but it didnt like chip

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

It didn't sound to me like you have a timing problem, just that the engine doesn't want to run with stock base timing because of another problem.

24 lb injectors will make a 305 run at least 25% rich, and if the engine already had negative blms, then that's enough to cause plug fouling and misfires.
This is relevant if the problem started at the same time as installing the new injectors.

I would put a vacuum gauge on it and observe what happens at idle. I would also test for vacuum leaks and visually check all of your spark plugs.

Sojer

the power brakes goes in and out so i know it doesnt vacuum right I will just put the 355 in and than see how that works now to the ESC location lol the 89 TBI car has it but the 87 dont 0.o

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

That could be caused by a large vacuum leak, - something you overlooked, or by an intake valve/s that is not sealing.
The engine will not want to idle with a large vacuum leak. If you hook up a datalogger you might see the blms maxed out trying to correct the AFR.

ringo234

If you went from 19lb injectors to 24lb you need to burn a new chip or you air/fuel ratio will run rich.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

What chip are you running? The PCMforless chip? If so, you are more than likely not setting your base timing where they have their spark reference angle set to in their chip. Do you know where they set it, because it needs to be the same? Otherwise your timing will be completely off if they set it at 0, and you set it at 6* BTDC. Also, if you removed your EGR, it needs to be disabled in the chip, otherwise your timing will be skewed...

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Sounds like you did not get it back together right. If your power brakes comes and goes,

Vacum leak.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

How exactly does a vacuum leak effect timing? He admitted to plugging the EGR without disabling it in one of the chips that he was using which will skew his timing, and he doesn't know where PCMforless set the spark reference. Those two things effect timing. He also doesn't indicate if he advanced or retarded the cam. Sojer is all over the place with his explanations, and nobody ever knows which chip he is using, or when he is using it. A vacuum leak will not effect his timing the way he is describing...

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

A huge vacum leak that is serious enough to make his power brakes come and go will certianly have an affect on the engines ability to run.

Vacum leak is not the only problem as we have seen in this thread.

Sounds like the intake needs to come back off at the least to check gaskets and such.

There are a ton of issues obviously, vacum leak, too big injectors, who knows if the valves were set right, or the cam was installed right.

All of these issues are adding up.

Timing way out is just one attempt at the engine trying to run under these conditions

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I spoke with Sojer plenty of times in PM months ago, he knows how to set his timing, and I made him more than aware that a vacuum leak will cause O2 correction to compensate by adding more fuel, thus raising his RPM at idle if he does in fact have a leak. He didn't have a vacuum leak back then, and RPM's were where they needed to be, and he was still having timing issues. His vacuum leak today is completely irrelevant as well as coincidence because he is all over the place with his information, whether he is using his ported TPI, his HSR, his various injectors, his various chips, and now the latest, a 305 that he is pulling out for another engine entirely. The bottom line is that nobody ever knows where he stands when he asks a particular question, he will complain about the timing be completely off, but then we don't know which chip or setup he is running at that moment when he asks, and when we ask him, the engine is suddenly apart and there is no way to confirm. Been there done that with him. We don't even known if he, or the former owner, retarded or advanced the camshaft that is in there. The vacuum leak is just a coincidence because he probably overlooked it when putting everything back together, but he always had a timing issue that has nothing to do with a vacuum leak...

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Its safe to assume that we are all assuming a lot here, when trying to diagnose a car on the internet.

You're right, we have no idea whats going on in that engine.

Is it a stock cam? Is it advanced or retarded? Is the timing chain stretched? Is the distributer one tooth off? Is the timing tab the right one for the balancer? Is the balances outer hub slipped?

Did he pinch a wire when installing the intake?

Is there a knock sensor, is it the right one?

A ton o variables in this thread for sure.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Bingo! There is so much information that we need to know, but we never get it from him. We have to go through it ourselves, and this is what I know so far. Sojer had a 305 running the stock Tuned Port Injection which he felt was faster than it should be. The heads he confirmed were stock when he pulled them, and the Tuned Port Injection wasn't modified any at that point. So if it was faster than stock, then it had to be in the camshaft. Either the stock one was advanced which gave him a tad more power down low to maximize the TPI's RPM range, or it is a different cam entirely, that might have also been advanced. We do know that the engine ran fine at that point....

Now, he made some upgrades. He bought an HSR and 113 heads, assembled the engine back together, purchased a PCMforless chip for the injectors he is running, and has been chasing timing problems ever since. Again though, prior to all of this, the engine ran fine. What do we know a this point though, we know that he plugged his EGR and didn't disable it in the stock chip, but it is disabled in the PCMforless chip. We don't know where the PCMforless chip set the spark reference angle. We don't know if the spark reference angle was altered in the stock chip before he bought the car. We don't know if the cam has been advanced of retarded. We don't know anything other than the timing is off....

That is where Sojer stands, and everytime I ask him to try something, he can't because the engine is either apart, or he is going in another direction with his project. Prior to finding this thread, I thought he gave up on the 305 and went with an LSX, because that was allegedly his "dream" engine, so I stopped helping him. Now I find that he is posting the same problems, without trying anything that was already recommended to hima year ago.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

"felt faster then it should be"

Thats funny.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Your just hearing about that felt faster than it should be remark? I take it you are not familiar with his "infamous" thread then...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/theo...slow-bull.html

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I started to read that thread, but lost interest real quick!

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

as i said before, tpi was probably built into the computer, tbi was built into the computer around 90 but was an extrnal module before that.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

the things i could add into this thread and cause my chaos is astounding right now.

sojer i honestly dont think you built the engine right, thats speaking my mind. take it all back apart and try again. throw away your fancy chips and start new.

Sojer

Just I do tell all info I told u PCMforless won't give me that info, I told u that It run worse with the chip that was burned for egr delete, along with 24lbs injectors. I told u the bottom end was not touched so the can is in right and I checked it. All the stuff y'all say u don't know the infoe is there. I told u its on stock chip because it run better. Pulling up other threads has nothing to do with this. You guys afe throwing in problems that are not there. The cam is in right, that damper did not spin, the heads are ok, the valves was set by a pro (not me). I only have the stock chip and the pcm4less chip that's it.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Then you need to take the intake off and make sure something was not messed up, a gasket, a wire, something.

If it ran fine before the head and intake swap, and now its messed up, something was not done properly.

85 ZXX

iTrader: (1)

GOOD GRIEF! Yank the TPI out, sell it on EBay and go carb. All your timing, ECM, TPI woes will come to an end.

ringo234

blah, blah, blah. If the timing has to 20° BTDC, then the distributor is off a tooth or the chain is off a tooth period.