ok, heres why i am posting this:
i am probably gonna finally buy another camaro

i want something i can beat my friend's heavily modded crustang 5.0 with

now, all the guys i talk to that i go to mechanic school with say that the 305 is a piece of ****

now compared to the 350 this is true in a way

but what about when compared to the Ford 302?

i want a car that is a 5 speed so that means either getting a 5 speed/305 or swapping a T56 into a 350 car (which i am capable of doing)

now, WHY did 305 5 speeds have 230 HP where as the auto version had less???

looking at that---that means that the 5 speed 305 was only 15 HP behind the 350........

one fellow at school was trying to tell me that the bore VS. the stroke on the 305 is really what throws it off.....

another person told me that it has a crappy factory cam......

how fast can a TPI 305 run with some good mods?

can they reach 12's on a stock bottom end?

all this is rather hard for me to tell because ------look at it from this standpoint----------most all engines in the 80's sucked (becuz of the energy crisis a decade earlier)-----------is that really the reason the 305 got such a bad rap? i mean--i look at the later 305 TPI/5 speeds with 230 HP and think- How bad can that be?
i mean the power rating is competitive with the Mustang and only 15 HP down from a 350.....



i also understand that a 350 will respond to mods better.....but how much better???

what can a stock 230HP 305 car run??? low 15's/ high 14's???

i need some help in making a decision here guys


also b4 i make any major mods to the car i will get......will it help if i start with a fresh longblock????

becuz the be honest i found a 1990 Lb9 car for $1500 with 230,000.........since it would need a new motor soon, first thing i would do if i bought the car would be slip a 350 in there...............

throw me a bone here fellas

 

305 suck cause they have 3.75 inch bore pistons.... 302, 327, 350 have 4" bores (these motors rock), guess what size bores a 302 mustang has?!?

 

Yeah, the 305's weak link is the long stroke small bore. It is great as a torque engine.
I like the idea of the getting the lb9 car and dropping a new 350 in it. If it has a stick then you can use that till it blows.
You can make a fast 305 car. You will need to make use of a power adder though. Look at Willie's car. He has a 305 with heads and a cam and is running an ATI blower with 12 #s of boost i think. He is on the verge, and i mean close to 11's! With good drivability and emmisions, bla, bla. Thus my example of a fast 305.
Now for the 350, look a Traxion's car. He is running a stock bottome end with afr 190s and a miniram and a pretty stout cam i'm sure. He is running bottom 12's also, sans a power adder.
Both with an automatic.
So you can go as plenty fast with either.
I tried the 305 thing, i thought it would be cool to have a 305 that could waste everything in sight, but it didn't happen. Now i have a 357 with the mods in the sig and it should run mid to high 12's. It would be hard or impossible to get that out of a NA 305.
Just my o2.

 

difference between the 305 and the 302 is that the 302 has better cooling and can rev higher smaller stroke and bigger bore means it can flow better at higher rpms.. also has forged bottom end so can take more of a beating.. plus... ever seen an automatic (factory) mustang 5.0?.. (they do exist.. but.. 70% of them are 5 speeds) so usully they'll hit second gear and have more pull.. (u can offset that with smaller gears in the rear.. like 3.73 or 4.11) most of them have 3.08.. or something close to that..
my lil' LB9 automatic which had the penut cam couldn't stay beside 'em (88 to 92 5.0's.. adequate driver) cam switch and some air induction mods and i beat them off the line... they hit second and creep up on me.. then i hit second and stay equil.. but they start creeping up on me after a few seconds.. i've got 3.27 posi.. my friend has 3.08.. if i'd put headers and port/polish the heads.. do something to my TPI... change my gearing to something like 3.4# or 3.73s.. higher then factory stall.. then i'd have him stareing at my tail lights. but.. his is still mostly stock...
if you want to match/beat a mustang... 350.. cuz u can make a better combo out of that motor (i'm all for the 305 tho.. cuz i like to be different.. and they can't use the excuse "you got 48 cubs over me.. of course u'r faster".. but different isn't better) 350 with a t56.. if you want my opinion.

 

Bottom end can handle a lot.

It is bore dificient.
If your 305 has 230K...get the 350.

To compete with the 350 and 302, your going to have use a Power Adder. And use something that will adapt to the 350 or larger, which is what will happen in the long run.

I just purchased a 5-Speed. It will be a while before I decide what I will do. If I keep the 305...it will have compressed air added. Otherwise, I will be going with more cubes for that Normal Aspirated appeal (No Drugs).

305/5-speeds could turn high 14s if driven correctly. They Formulas and GTAs got the 350 cam, dual catalytic converter exhaust sytem, and 3.45 gears. PLenty of guys running 13s with this setup and some typical mods. Don't hope for 12s without $$$ or a power adder. There is a post of the "Fastest ThirdGen" Focus of post is a Vortech blown 305 that does 10s in the 1/4.

Also...it seems the consensus that the 350 will respond to mods at 350/305 the rate a 305 will.

 

oh yeah.. difference between auto and manual..
other then powerloss thought drivetrain.. but i'm pretty sure GM dosn't dyno RWHP.. so.. Cam.. 305 5sp had the 350 cam... the auto had the penut cam.. (small.. milage efficent cam)

 

The part about the cam is true up to 1989. In 1990, the peanut cam was eliminated from all TPI engines, and the L98 profile was installed in 305 TPI autos as well. The 205 hp rating of the auto LB9s is due to the TBI exhaust setup, with the tiny manifolds and Y-pipe, small single cat, and small I-pipe. There are guys who have replaced all of that and are running just a little slower than the G92 manual cars, which run mid 14s stock.

 

If you are into building your own ride to kick some but, I'd start w/ a LB9 / T5 car for starters... Go T56, and go 355 or bigger.

the five speed car & TPI are already setup for the future plans w/ pedals & wiring, the motor swap is cake, the 305 car is going to be cheaper than a 350 car and you have a good idea of where you're going.

As an overall *** kicker, build a 6500 rpm 355, and match heads, cam, exhaust very carefully to a mini-ram. You will eat 5.0's all day long, top end, off the line, etc. Manual trans. will let you slip the clutch and hook, and also have a wider gear spread than automatics.

 

Actually, I am starting to consider getting a second 3rd Gen exactly as described above forthe same reasons. My GTA is unique enough that I am thinking of just putting it back to "completely" stock and build another 3rd gen for "fun".

By the time you upgrade the engine, transmission, rear end, brakes, suspension, etc - other than the body and interior, not much of the original powertrain and suspension will remain. So I may as well build a 3rd Gen with a 5-speed/305 that has a good body/interior but a tired engine/tranny (which I would swap).

About the only thing I would different is look at the Motown 415 shortblock - you can never have enough cubic inches.

 

Most people seem to think the 305 cannot be made to run hard, I disagree. My 305 runs pretty well, and it has limited modifications. I do believe a NA 305 TPI can run in the high 12's without a lot of work. My limited mods are in my sig and I am running high 13's with 110,000 miles. This winter I am going to change the heads, cam, and intake, high 12's are my goal.

 

Go for it, I'll be the first to pat you on the back.
But I think it will prove to be alot harder than you think.
Like I said, I was there and have tried that. So have many others, I havn't seen a NA 305 in the 12s Yet.
Make it light, and make it hooK!

 

I'm pretty sure Tim Burgess' 305 runs 12's NA.

 

Ok, ready for this: Im a Mustang owner.
One of the reasons that the Stang will usually win is due to weight. The LXs have like 500-700lbs on a camaro. I have herd of people just doing a full exhaust and heads and hitting low very 13s and even 12s.
The point about the 5spd is very true. i shift my car at like 5300, but thats when I shift the car, not when it wants to shift. the 5spd is very critical.
and using a sset of 3.73s will do wonders for acceleration. the IROC in my sig. has them and it runs like a bat out of he11.
your best bet, get a 350, trickflow heads and 3.73s and you should be able to hang with a Mustang that is mildly worked also.
But what you forgot to mention was what mods does the mustang have? you said heavily------can you define that and his mods?

 

500-700 pounds? What do you think a thirdgen F-body weighs? 4000 pounds?

Its more like 1-200 pounds different.

 

I think the 305 (lb9) is a great street motor. Mine is a stock rebuilt lb9 and, with the 3.73's, I suprise a lot of 350's on the street. Even newer LT1's.

The Mustangs, I'm sad to say, were known to be faster than most of the third gen cars.

For the track, I'll take a 350 and beat everyone!

 

My 305 runs really well with the mods I did. I have a 350 block in the garage for the future but for now it gives most small blocks a run for the money. Most if not all can not believe I have a half of a motor as all of my Chevy friends say.

 

My Gt weighs 3300, my cousins IROC tips the scale at almost 3800. and my TA, which my dad owns now, is 3817.
Thats 1/2 in the 1/4 mile already.
I dont want this to start into a FORD vs. GM thing------i used to be a TA guy, but couldnt run with the mustangs, so i bought one.
But for the record: while the GT has much more power, my Trans Am was so much for fun to drive and ride in!

 

I think your scale is a bit off, no way either one of those actually weighed 3800 pounds. Thats at least 250 high.

 

If you do a project car, I'd look for a 305 auto. They will be the cheapest and most plentiful.

Those that have done it said it's easier to put a T56 into an auto car than it is to put it into a 5 speed car. Don't remember why.

I also think that by doing it that way you'll have more long term options. You'll be able to easily switch back to an auto for whatever reason (such as getting to the point where you decide to bracket race or you just want the consistancy).

I started with a 305 auto and now I've got a 355 5-speed. Someday I'll have the bugs worked out too, but that's another story.

I don't plan to ever go back to an auto, but if I do, other than some missing shifter mounts on the floor, everything is there, including the harness plug.

 

3800# does sound a little high. I know some of the second gens. were that heavy, but they reduced the weight in the third gens.

My TA is 3300#.

 

Hello,

My Formula weighs 3460 with me in it, on the scale at the track. I weigh about 230-240lbs..

I think his scale is off, but I also know the mustangs are lighter, and hook a little better..

I also know they run like 14.4-14.5 at best stock (GT's). I usually get paired up with mustangs at the track (for some reason or another).

The automatics are horrible, but then again driving an auto at the track can be night and day. I ran against a few of those 5.0 lx's and the best run out of them (stock ) was like a 15.0.

I have seen them run as good as a 12.9 with a supercharger and light mods however..

I've always hated 305s, but I recently put one in one of my older cars to see what it can do. I figure I can get around 280-300hp
out of it, which should be good for a low 14 second, high 13 second car.. I dunno about 12's any time soon.. Maybe with nitrous..



-- Joe