ScarabChris

This might have been beat to death years back when the Ethanol started hitting the gas stations. I know on the boating forums where I am active it was and still is a huge issue especially on older boats.

I only use non Ethanol gas in my boat, Rec 90 is what they call it. Most marina's carry non Ethanol gas. I can tell you with certainty my boat runs much better on Rec 90. In addition to more power and smoother idling us boaters also get a little more range (MPG) out of non Ethanol fuel. Plus with boats you often have gas sitting in humid conditions for long periods, boat gas tanks are vented so they are open to the environment and most boats are kept on or near the water and that Ethanol sucks moisture right out of the humid air and turns it into a lot of water in the fuel tank.

But what about the older TPI engines? The reason I ask is because I put non Ethanol gas in my 87 GTA. During the power outage of Hurricane Irma I pumped about 60 gallons of non Ethanol gas from my boat to run the generators and once the power came back I had about 15 gallons left so instead of putting it back in the boat, my GTA was pretty empty so I filled it with the non Ethanol (Rec 90) and I noticed a difference.

Instant cold starts, and a really strong start. One rotation of the engine and it starts strong. I also notice a smoother idle and a little more power.

Anyone else use non Ethanol and do you notice a difference? With the results I see from using it I don't want to put that corn alcohol trash back in the car. There are a couple of street gas stations in my area that offer it. It does cost more however. But my GTA is not a daily driver so I only fill it up once a month if that.

knightfire

Used to have an old 70' f100 with a 390. Ran Ethanol in that and had hard hot starts and vapor lock problems in anything but cold weather. You could actually hear fuel boiling in the carb bowl. Until I switched to the non eth. variety and everything was back to normal.

I've seen a positive improvement in gas millage in anything I made the non ethanol switch with, fuel injected or not.

As a general garage rule, ethanol doesn't come anywhere near any of my small engines. Especially anything with diaphragm type carb system.

vinny R

Wow you may be on to something. A lot of us, me included deal with that hard start when hot. My buddy's 92 does the same thing. I run super for the extra octane and the car does run better on it. I will try this in my next fill up and see if it makes a difference.

ScarabChris

Yeah I hear you on the small engines. My generators are a Honda 3000i and a Honda EU2000 and I won't run the E-gas in them unless I have no choice. In addition to that I drain them, run them out of gas and actually dry out the gas tank before storing them. They are both well over 10 years old and they start on the first pull even after sitting for 5+ years. The only other small engine I have is my leaf blower I use once a week and I use the non ethanol gas in that as well.

Yeah I think I'm going to try my best to not use Ethanol gas in my GTA anymore. I mean the cold starts are very impressive. The engine almost jumps through the hood a split second after turning the key where as before I would have to crank it a few times to get it to start.

Ty92Z

iTrader: (11)

I started running non ethanol in my 92 and noticed an immediate difference. First time pumping it, I noticed the different color, texture and smell. I immediately remembered that this is how gas used to look. Won't put anything else in my small engines.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The nearest non-ethanol gas is over an hour's drive from me. Illinois was an early adopter of E10 and we've been stuck with it ever since.

jharrison5

I only run non ethanol fuel in my vehicles. I used to put in what ever was the cheapest, but noticed that I was not getting the drive-ability that I used to. Switched to running only regular fuel and haven't had any issues since. My neighbor actually fills his corvette with 108 octane race fuel for storage in the winter months and suggested I do the same once I get my iroc running. Supposedly the higher octane doesn't go bad as fast.

Vanilla Ice

I prefer ethanol.
I would run e85 if I could.

As much as I care about MPG this is a toy so id rather it run at peak than worry about mpg.

Ethanol when tuned right allows more timing to make more power than gasoline.

skinny z

One of my engine guys (cylinder heads specifically) was big in circle track sealed engines. Lots of Vortec stuff. He said on the dyno, the 94 octane 10% ethanol fuel made less horsepower than the non-ethanol 91 octane. That was Sunoco Ultra 94 vs Shell Gold.
Seeing as the sealed engines didn't have a high demand for detonation resistance, the extra BTU's available in the lower octane pure gasoline made a measurable difference. IIRC something along the lines of 8 HP in a 400 HP engine.
I've always been concerned with spark knock as the iron heads and the DCR I tend to target lead me to using the 94. Seeing as this new engine is less demanding in that regard, I may try a tank next time at the track. Some back to back testing would be interesting. So would a few hundred miles of highway cruising. Just have to be sure the ignition timing is sorted out.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I never run ethanol gas in my car because it sits weeks at a time without being run. I've seen ethanol gas gum up. Non ethanol seems to give me more mpg and runs better in my pickup.

Vanilla Ice

Every non tuned car *should* run better on 100% gas and get better mpg.

If you're not going to tune for ethanol there aren't benefits so don't bother. Just get the non ethanol stuff.

ScarabChris

No question about it you get better performance and mileage on non E gas. This was and still is a big debate in the marine industry, actually it's not a debate as you would be hard pressed to find a true boater that doesn't prefer rec 90 non E gas.

Newer vehicles are built to run on it and may even run better because the engines are tuned for it. I have an Escalade as my daily driver and it's a "Flex Fuel" vehicle. I run the regular cheap E gas for daily driving and the premium E gas when towing my travel trailer on long road trips.

Anyway I'm on the Cadillac forums and remember a few Escalade owners saying they put in rec 90 non E gas and their check engines lights came on. Not interested in generating problems where there isn't one so on my new vehicles I'll use the E gas.

But never again in my boat! I remember when the Ethanol first hit the scene. Even the marinas were forced to pump it for the first couple years. It was very difficult to find non E gas anywhere. The first time I put it in my boat it was a disaster, it was an older boat (1994) and even though I had new engines at the time (2005 Evinrudes) the boat would not run. The alcohol in the gas destroyed all the old fuel lines and cleaned up the oily film in the tank (2 stroke oil) and shoved it all into the engines. Clogged up the filters, fuel lines broke down and started leaking. Thousands of dollars in damage not to mention having both engines stalling out in busy waterways nearly causing me to drift into the rocks and other boats.

It took a couple years of hard core complaining by the big wigs in the marine industry to get it through the governments head that ethanol was horrible for boats. I think what got them to listen was when the law enforce mt marine units that use gasoline powered boats like police, Coast Guard, Navy etc screaming at the government that got them to at least allow marina fuel docks to get rid of ethanol. Now you see almost no marina's pumping ethanol.

Anyway...there are two road gas stations within 5 miles of my house that sell non ethanol gas. I'll be filling my Trans Am at one of these stations from now on.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

My carburetor likes non-ethanol gas better, but I've run both depending on what's available.

110 octane is my personal favorite

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Vanilla Ice, what parameters need to be changed in the tune in order to run ethanol fuel more efficiently?

skinny z

There is simply more available energy in a gallon of non-ethanol gasoline as opposed to E10.
111,836 BTU/gal vs 114,000 BTU/gal. About 2% in the difference.
Which, not coincidentally, matches the horsepower gain seen on the dyno with the back to back experiments I mentioned earlier. AFRs would have to be adjusted across the board to compensate and it can be seen how that would affect mileage as well.

Vanilla Ice

Everything regarding fueling and timing.

E10 can't equal E0 as it's usually the same price.
But the higher ethanol blends like E85 can get you the same MPD (miles per dollar, NOT MPG). E85 in most cases is cheaper by about the same % as it is higher in power output. So yes your tank will need to be filled more often, but power is substantially higher, drivability better, and your fuel cost stays the same.

Vanilla Ice

Correct, which is why I said 99% want to stick with straight gas.

Jbuchanan

My car runs like a scalded dog with pure gas, definitely noticed a difference.

ScarabChris

There is a new Wa Wa gas station/store just a few miles from my house so now I have a place to get it easily.

ScarabChris

That's the reason us boaters really hate the E gas. If you fill your boat up and use it fast, say within a couple weeks, then you're usually good...(the decreased power and economy notwithstanding). The real problems come from the fuel sitting for months and making it worse is boat gas tanks are vented, open to the air and most boats are kept on or near the water. I live on an ocean access canal and have my boat docked in my back yard so it is exposed to massive humidity and the alcohol sucks water right from the air leaving a puddle of water in the fuel tank.

Adding to that the boat holds 300 gallons and I don't use it as often as I used to so it takes me months to go through that much gas.....needless to say I will never put ethanol gas in the boat unless I have no choice.

Same with my Trans Am. It parks 50 feet from the dock where my boat is so it is subjected to the same humid salt air as the boat and it will sometimes go 2 weeks without being driven so a tank of gas lasts months. Granted the gas tank is not open to the air like the boat, but still.....I'm glad I can use non ethanol gas.

skinny z

Interesting to note that the ethanol free fuel has a higher octane rating than regular.

vinny R

Well I wanted to give you guys an update. I am on my second tank of rec 90. What A Difference! The hot and cold starts, fires up right away no matter what. Increase in power, for sure! Not a lot but noticeable. Smooth idle, if I couldn't here the exhaust I would not know the car is running. I don't know about the mileage, if it went up, the car is a weekend warrior that I tend to drive with a lead foot.


This Thread should be moved to a sticky. I can not believe what a difference this has made. My car ran good before but now it seems like new!


Triple Burnout!!

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Where are you guys finding non ethanol fuel?


Nevermind, I just googled it and a small engine shop came up within 20 miles of me. They say they have 94 non ethanol fuel. Maybe I should give it a try before my dyno day session on Nov 4th

Vanilla Ice

76 stations are known for it.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Just called the station and they want $24 a gallon for it and all it comes in is quarts and gallon jugs!!!

Vanilla Ice

That’s bizarre. It’s not in their pumps?

Ty92Z

iTrader: (11)

Walmart's station, Murphy Gas, carries it near me. I'm in NC and it's relatively easy to find.

vinny R

That's not it. I get mine from a Chevron station that is close to a boat ramp. Check stations close to some sort of boating activity. I have heard pretty much all WaWa's have it. It usually is a separate hose from the pump. like desiel but down here the handle is red.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Something's not right there. There are plenty of normal gas stations in each state that still have it for regular prices. I think the website is called like puregas or something where you can search by state/city.

midias

I dont notice a difference in myTA or accord but my 82 and 86 honda Motorcycle I do. They are very well tuned from the factory 4 carbs and each jettet for the length of each exhaust pipe. They were also tuned for non ethanol and seem to run better on non ethanol stuff. My small engines also seem to run better on non ethanol.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

From what I understand, MA does not have any pumps that supply non ethanol fuel. It can only be bought in small containers here. The closet place that has it at the pump in in RI and its about 1.5 hours away and is 110 octane at $10 a gallon. Same place also caries 95 but only in 5 gallon jugs for $80.

midias

You can get 87 no ethanol here for about the price of regular 93. We also ahve 91 ans 100+ non ethanol

vinny R

Do you have a marina close by? I can't see boaters filling their tanks with gallon jugs. I can't see marinas not selling it out of a pump. We have 90 octane here in FL and it is about $4 a gallon now, a little above supreme prices.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Yes, I live abut 10 miles from the ocean and I have a small airport within 15 minutes of my house. I will check those places out tomorrow