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I've been watching the old Columbo shows on TV lately.
He always turns around and says "Just one more question"
It would be interesting to understand how a carb intake combo that flows about 265 cfm on a 300 cfm head losses 37 cfm (228 cfm) mounted on a 273 cfm head?
That 273 cfm head only flows 26 cfm less bare than the 300 cfm head, they aren't that much different.
Charlie has so many tests, I may not have the cfm's exactly right, but close.
Wonder what the gasket sizes are on both heads and the intake?
Is there a mismatch (oversized) between the RPM and the smaller head?
Not trying to be a $#@%^
Something to be learned by figuring that out
I know it's not directly related to the TPI intake results, just the comparison.
Where are you getting this 265 cfm from? He isn’t flowing the intake by itself.
Charlie’s tests are from carb to head. Everything bolted together which is the only number that counts.
Super got 208cfm all bolted together.
The article he posted from Dulcich got 216.
Like I said earlier in the thread, each component has a resistance to flow. They add up when bolted together. Custom porting is what mitigates that problem which is why the TPI system in this thread is over 230cfm total through the head while others have gotten a “whopping 187cfm” all bolted together even using aftermarket parts.
Are you tracking now?
I don’t consider anyone as being rude. My posts however probably seem more rude because I’m at work in a shop in Texas that’s 90+ degrees with a bunch of stuff going on. So I apologize for that if it comes off that way.
Where are you getting this 265 cfm from? He isn’t flowing the intake by itself.
Charlie has a lot of good videos to watch and learn from.
In one he tests this modified RPM on some 300cfm World Product Heads.
265 cfm is what it flows there.
Originally Posted by MrIROBZ
I’m at work in a shop in Texas that’s 90+ degrees
Close to 100 degrees and humid for two weeks up where I am, not use to it ... but we function OK
Originally Posted by MrIROBZ
Super got 208cfm all bolted together.
The article he posted from Dulcich got 216.
Like I said earlier in the thread, each component has a resistance to flow. They add up when bolted together
Ya ... I am SuperZZ4 (that's me) ... and SuperL98 over on the Corvette Forum.
I have a little understanding of this air flow stuff ... kind of what I do
Asking questions, questioning results (especially my own) is how we understand even more.
Spent a lot of time (to much) on TPI intakes.
Cool project and I always get a kick out of watching and learning from Charlie's videos.
Been really busy getting the new shop running well... Pretty happy with the job. Charlie has been busy with life also... Good news is the heads are almost done and I think I have a 383 for it. Will be going ahead with plan 1 and just running this is on the engine dyno for testing.
For this test I asked Charlie to flow the entire set up together, from throttle body to intake valve so we can get an idea of what the system all bolted together will do with the new valves. I must say there is a lot of info to digest in this video so I will just get to the bottom line for now.
All numbers are @ .500" lift.
Cylinder 1 comes in at 228cfm total airflow. This is the lowest flowing port and the closest to the throttle body, regardless, this is right in line with another ported intake with ASM runners mentioned earlier in this thread and matches a ported RPM intake on the same head!
Cylinder 3 comes in at 233.4cfm total.
Cylinder 5 comes in at 234.4cfm total
and 7 comes in at a whopping 244.4cfm.
The heads themselves have all ports flowing 266-270cfm.
Variance between cylinders varies from porter to porter but even Darrin Morgan says that he likes within 5-8cfm in cylinder head ports but I am not sure with the intake attached. Some intakes like single planes are almost impossible to equalize due to the different runner lengths.
Swirl seems to be steady across all ports at 2400-2800rpm, which is good. For those who arent sure what to think about swirl, I will leave you with a bit of info from my archive -
Swirl is typically based on stability of the short turn. If the short turn works properly the swirl gain very slowly as you open the valve every .050".
A typical swirl curve will go something like this. A 2 valve engine that has a "semi modern" port and chamber will see the swirl increase for the first few lift points, say up to .200" lift or so (1200-1500rpm very common here). At this point the valve is starting to get open enough to start unshrouding itself. The swirl will stabilize and possibly start dropping (600-1000 rpm common) and then stabilize from .250 to .450 lift or so until you get to .25 L/D ratio. Once you've reached this point the shorturn starts to show its true colors. As the port start becoming less efficient the swirl starts to go up. You can see this on my heads in this video.
The less cfm the port gains per .050" the more the swirl rises. This goes for pretty much every head. 4 valves included.
Tumble is very possible in 2 valve heads. Remember that you almost never have perfect swirl or tumble but usually have some sort of an off axis tilted vortices.
4000rpm of swirl is high and usually means your short turn is not working at all. The chamber and the valve are all a part of the port. Your chamber unshrouding has placed more demand on your port and the flaws are starting to show up.
The airspeeds are pretty good at the PRP and pretty high at the SSR. What we are thinking is the signal to the long runners may be better with more pull on the intake to keep this street engine responsive. If there needs to be any work further on the heads I will have to address that separately and widen the SSR.
As soon as I get them back I will be posting pics. In the meantime I need to figure out what sort of bottom end to put these on. 355? 377? 383? 400?
Well here we are, the latest update and flow numbers galore!
For this test I asked Charlie to flow the entire set up together, from throttle body to intake valve so we can get an idea of what the system all bolted together will do with the new valves.
As soon as I get them back I will be posting pics. In the meantime I need to figure out what sort of bottom end to put these on. 355? 377? 383? 400?
Thanks.
A couple of questions based on my editing your post.
When we do our basic cam spec which includes port flow (as requested by a cam designer's recommendation form) does the cam designer take into consideration that the port flow with the head alone on a flow bench will be crippled by the addition of an intake manifold? That makes me wonder where my 255 CFM @ .500" heads fall into place. My cam is already spec'd (with said 255 CFM) and in the running engine. (Very nice by the way if preliminary road tests are any indication).
Another question I have, which I had brought up way back when your exploration started, is that is the engine CID relative when it comes to where the the entire intake tract reaches it's limit?
There's a member here that's rebuilding (very nicely I should say ) a late 80's SMCA Camaro series car. Because he can, he has the OEM TPI ready to go onto a 4" x 3" 302. Seems to me that the RPM limits of peak HP and TQ would all be moved up in the RPM range. Not 7k territory like the DZ302 of old is famous for but perhaps better than it would be with the same intake on a 355 or 383?
If nothing else, the torque production nature of the TPI would/should aid the little 302 is making more TQ than it otherwise would.
Thoughts?
Glad to see your update too.
Those numbers all looked pretty great to me. Practical or attainable for the average TPI owner? IDK, but I think the car is gonna run wicked good and be top of it's class.
Originally Posted by skinny z
Because he can, he has the OEM TPI ready to go onto a 4" x 3" 302. Seems to me that the RPM limits of peak HP and TQ would all be moved up in the RPM range. Not 7k territory like the DZ302 of old is famous for but perhaps better than it would be with the same intake on a 355 or 383?
I'd expect it to rev about the same as a 305 with same H/C/I. A little better b/c of the bore...but about the same.
so would it be fair to say this intake/head combo will be the perfect test of if there's ever anyway around the tpi long runner hp dropping off after 4800-5k? if this combo still won't flow to 6k with flow numbers matching a rpm intake that probably makes good power to 6500?
I have no idea if it will or won't, but feels like if this doesn't nothing will.
A couple of questions based on my editing your post.
When we do our basic cam spec which includes port flow (as requested by a cam designer's recommendation form) does the cam designer take into consideration that the port flow with the head alone on a flow bench will be crippled by the addition of an intake manifold? That makes me wonder where my 255 CFM @ .500" heads fall into place. My cam is already spec'd (with said 255 CFM) and in the running engine. (Very nice by the way if preliminary road tests are any indication).
Another question I have, which I had brought up way back when your exploration started, is that is the engine CID relative when it comes to where the the entire intake tract reaches it's limit?
There's a member here that's rebuilding (very nicely I should say ) a late 80's SMCA Camaro series car. Because he can, he has the OEM TPI ready to go onto a 4" x 3" 302. Seems to me that the RPM limits of peak HP and TQ would all be moved up in the RPM range. Not 7k territory like the DZ302 of old is famous for but perhaps better than it would be with the same intake on a 355 or 383?
If nothing else, the torque production nature of the TPI would/should aid the little 302 is making more TQ than it otherwise would.
Thoughts?
Glad to see your update too.
Good question and I have no answer. I would assume they use head flow and then port length as flowing the whole port isn’t done as often. I would assume since as depression increases, so does flow and ultimately the head has far greater influence than the whole port. The late great Joe Sherman (Rest Easy) once said the manifold is there to hold up the carburetor and he found very little difference in a well ported intake. I don’t know how true that statement is but we have been seemingly getting by with just head flow numbers.
I can also deduce that the Richard Holdener video TPI Mega Test showed a good increase on using ported TPI stuff but that increase wasn’t where the majority of power came from.
I would guess the 302 TPI would still act like a TPI at the end of the day, as also tested by Richard Holdener on a 4.8 SBC. There’s really no getting around that tuned resonance, you just gotta work it as much as possible to get the most out of its intended RPM band.
I’m leaning heavily towards the other direction. 4.125” bore and 3.48-3.750” stroke. We shall see…
Those numbers all looked pretty great to me. Practical or attainable for the average TPI owner? IDK, but I think the car is gonna run wicked good and be top of it's class.
I'd expect it to rev about the same as a 305 with same H/C/I. A little better b/c of the bore...but about the same.
There’s no telling. Most guys who are pros at this say it’s the shape that makes power and CFM is a tool. Others say airspeeds are key. It’s probably all of it and someone trying porting for the first time would probably be biting off too much with a full TPI system. That’s being said, if one were to invest the time I think this is doable.
Originally Posted by ???
so would it be fair to say this intake/head combo will be the perfect test of if there's ever anyway around the tpi long runner hp dropping off after 4800-5k? if this combo still won't flow to 6k with flow numbers matching a rpm intake that probably makes good power to 6500?
I have no idea if it will or won't, but feels like if this doesn't nothing will.
Man, I honestly want it to carry to 5500-6000. I have zero doubts it’ll ramp to 5000 in typical TPI fashion but whatever happens after that is anyone’s guess. The whole premise here is to see what the airspeed hype is all about.
As for the 302, there's more to it than CID. At least from what I understand. Yes, the larger bore would help breathing, and even more so with a 4.125. I think that the short stroke, as compared to a 305 is going to make a fundamental difference and it may be that the resonance becomes more favourable.
Just kind of spitballing ideas more than anything.
Certainly the cam specs between those two similar displacements would be different.
Did the 350 and 305 share the same runner and plenum sizes?
Last edited by skinny z; Sep 23, 2024 at 10:10 AM.
I also dont think the bore to stroke ratio has much to do with increasing RPM on an engine with long intake runners. This is all about the resonance frequency, and there is no real way to side step that physical "limitation". I do hear that if you round the edges off it makes the engine think the runners are shorter vs a sharp edge but I have never seen any testing with this. It would be a good test though. My plenum is radiused at the inlets to the runners but this was done purely for flow.
Unfortunately no, he was stating they were for an LT1 Gen 2 swap so we were unsure if they would fit right and he was going to ask Don, but then he sold them to someone else. Thats how it goes sometimes. No worries tho. I'll probably spring for the ARH set and have a custom y pipe merge made by a guy we use. His welds are absolutely works of art and theres a local company we also use for mufflers called Stainless Brothers and let me tell you... These babies sound really nice! We put some on a friends/customers 69 Nova with a 400 and its literally the best small block sound Ive ever heard. Seems every car we hear is nothing but ear to ear grins. Its aggressive... Loud at initial start up, like a new car but then fades out to a deep idle with a little crackle... When you rev it, it sounds like a cammed C5 Z06. Ive been waiting to put them on a third gen to see if they grab that thirdgen gargle but make it sound more refined and aggressive.
The car already has 1 5/8 Dougs ceramic shorties with a "dead end" Y pipe (why previous owner?) with a 3" Magnaflow cat back that I dont like. Its just too quiet for me... Even at moderate to WOT throttle. Its not much louder than stock really. I dont want a race car sound, but I would like a healthy sounding car. I still appreciate you trying tho!
Hard question. I am shifting back and forth on the bottom end. I am bouncing around the idea of either doing a 383, a 400 or just using the stock bottom end like I was originally planning. With the right head gasket I can get the ol L98 up to about 9.4:1. A few passes on the heads I can easily do more. The reason I like that idea is because its cheaper and its easier. Lets not beat around the bush... The economy right now sucks. Everything is expensive and the inflation is sky high.. Not only that but medical stuff is going on from getting older (going ok so far for those wondering). BUT... When has modifying cars been cheap? I'm also up for doing it right the first time... that being said... a bigger bottom end has some benefits... The 383 is attractive because it will of course make more TQ and it can be done in the stock block. I am not really after peak HP or TQ (due to the long runners) but average HP and TQ because when youre running a long runner limited intake, average is all you got. It will flat out just be better with a stroker. Maybe not a lot of HP more but the TQ will be better and average HP will also be up. The 400 on the other hand is the beast option. With more bore, cylinder head flow and total intake flow goes up. Combined with more stroke, now TQ will also rise like with the 383. The 400 is really the way to go if you want the most out of it. There are guys who disagree with that. The thinking as far as the premise is that because a smaller engine will allow the limited CFM to be maximized and there are some tests from Richard Holdener that shows it CAN be worth 2-300RPM. Even the SoCal guys were all running 355's or about that.
My take? Ive never heard a guy who had a stroker say.. "Gee, I wish I would have done the smaller 350 instead".
All that being said, PipeMax says I'm giving up almost 70hp between the stock bottom end and a 400 at the same 9.4:1 compression.
If you’re thinking 383, I’d suggest going with a 3.875 crank with 2” rod journals and 6” comp star 2.0” rods. You can get 396 cubes and won’t have to grind much if any more for block clearance than a 383 with 2.1” rod journals and typical 2.1” journal rods.
It’ll cost a little more than the 383, but a lot less than a 400 or 406 with an aftermarket block and it’ll make power pretty close to a 400 with the heads you have.
Nah, no dual exhaust. Single 3.5" should work fine. I'll be selling the Magnaflow 3" cat back
I was more thinking along the lines of flow capacity.
You don't want to choke the engine with a muffler that hasn't got the CFM needed. A single muffler compounds the problem.
I was more thinking along the lines of flow capacity.
You don't want to choke the engine with a muffler that hasn't got the CFM needed. A single muffler compounds the problem.
At this power level I dont think its a problem. Besides, the car needs to look pretty stock.
Last edited by Kevin91Z; Nov 5, 2024 at 11:30 AM.
Reason: removed political comment
My comment was edited? Psh! LOL So much for FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS on Thirdgen.org. I dont have to be here Kevin, and frankly, Im not fond about being censored in ANY way. Just like Legacy media, this site has taken a plunge. My Trump 2024 comment didnt get deleted on my Chevelle site. Dont be a ****ing cupcake.
Edit. Im not looking for any fame. Im just trying to provide info for the small group of TPI guys who might be interested in adding some power to a TPI car when they restore their F body. This is exactly what the classic car guys do and theres now a whole class called FAST dedicated to it. If I want a Trump banner with my IROC or just to endorse a political candidate without talking about it then I should be able to do so. This is America.
My comment was edited? My ..... comment didnt get deleted on my Chevelle site.
It could be a lot worse; I've experienced some FBS that is quite a bit more disturbing on another forum that I won't contribute to, any longer.
It's a forum owned by a company that has it's policies. So constitutional rights don't apply here....just like they don't apply at your (or my) place of work.
From a personal opinion perspective, I'd much rather read your posts about your TPI work (which I've LOVED reading, thus far), than about retard politicians. Let's stick to car-guy talk.
With all due respect to those concerned, one of the refreshing things about third gen is that there are no politics or religion or sex in discussion. Even the swearing is edited and while I can cuss with the best of them, I can appreciate the policy.
Oh no, will you leave like you threatened to last time you got upset on the internet car forum?
Posting a banner with a Trump flag or just making a statement is way different than having a political discussion. I should be able to post sigs of what I want like other sites, period. But you guys argue that Im just supposed to be in lock step with Internet Brands whos based out of El Segundo, CA because they say so huh? Nice try but this is freedom of expression, not a political discussion. So I call B U L L S H I T.
God please keep it going so I can spend the 13 grand on the Chevelle instead of this way expensive 400hp science experiment! Im so tired of wasting my time on this already.
IDK what to say. I got banned for a month on another IB forum, for ^that^....right there. "Continuation of conflict" and "Vulgarity". And it happened to me one day, from a 4 month old thread/post!!
So yeah....they don't get my 30 years worth of mechanics' knowledge anymore. *I* hear ya about the avatar......It's a contentious thing right now though, it has nothing to do w/cars, and I'd just stay focused on the car stuff b/c that is where the fun and reward is for you, and the interest, from us.
IDK what to say. I got banned for a month on another IB forum, for ^that^....right there. "Continuation of conflict" and "Vulgarity". And it happened to me one day, from a 4 month old thread/post!!
So yeah....they don't get my 30 years worth of mechanics' knowledge anymore. *I* hear ya about the avatar......It's a contentious thing right now though, it has nothing to do w/cars, and I'd just stay focused on the car stuff b/c that is where the fun and reward is for you, and the interest, from us.
They can ban me! I don’t have to be here. I’m literally spending my own money and paying to have all these tests done and then sharing it for everyone’s benefit! Tomorrow morning, I’ll get up, make my coffee and throw 80’s tunes on in my IROC and away I go and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do about it. I’m already tired of ranting and I’ve already caught lots of **** just for doing this testing and it’s just not worth it… all for what? I’m doing YOU a favor! I don’t want to hear any chicken **** about a Trump post.
FWIW. Right now I can post Trump 2024 on Facebook and it won’t get deleted but you can’t do that on TGO and considering how bad FB is that’s pretty Fn LOW!
They can ban me! I don’t have to be here. I’m literally spending my own money and paying to have all these tests done and then sharing it for everyone’s benefit! Tomorrow morning, I’ll get up, make my coffee and throw 80’s tunes on in my IROC and away I go and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do about it. I’m already tired of ranting and I’ve already caught lots of **** just for doing this testing and it’s just not worth it… all for what? I’m doing YOU a favor! I don’t want to hear any chicken **** about a Trump post.
FWIW. Right now I can post Trump 2024 on Facebook and it won’t get deleted but you can’t do that on TGO and considering how bad FB is that’s pretty Fn LOW!
I'm all about what you're saying, and trust me, I'm fully on your page, but dang, its so nice to have a place to escape that whole mess. I'm a big fan of trying to keep it car related on here.
I'm all about what you're saying, and trust me, I'm fully on your page, but dang, its so nice to have a place to escape that whole mess. I'm a big fan of trying to keep it car related on here.
Originally Posted by skinny z
With all due respect to those concerned, one of the refreshing things about third gen is that there are no politics or religion or sex in discussion. Even the swearing is edited and while I can cuss with the best of them, I can appreciate the policy.
Exactly what I was saying.
Originally Posted by MrIROBZ
I’m literally spending my own money and paying to have all these tests done and then sharing it for everyone’s benefit!
That's right. Nobody asked you to do it either yet you received plenty of encouragement and thanks from those that participated in your thread. Don't let politics mess it up.
Huh? Is that a joke set up? I don't "get it". I'm a little slow, sometimes!
Originally Posted by MrIROBZ
They can ban me! I don’t have to be here. I’m literally spending my own money and paying to have all these tests done and then sharing it for everyone’s benefit!
Yep. I was doing the same thing on that other place. It's super lame but it's outside the realm of your and my area of influence. You need to decide if it matters more to you, than a banner. I had to decide if I wanted to continue to contribute my time/effort, $$$ and experience over there. I wanted to....for the members....but I SURE a pluck didn't want to, for the benefit of that forum; IB is/was making $$$ on the shoulders of me. (and a handful of other experienced members>
In the end, I decided that on principle, I could contribute to a forum that would ban me for a 4 mo old thread. That's BFS, and I have no doubt that there are other necro posts/threads of mine, that have the same characteristics. Would I get banned for them too? I'm not going to find out.
Up to you, but "whinnin' ambition" ain't gonna fix anything. I seriously hope you stay, but can completely appreciate if you can't tolerate IB's policies. I "get it".
With all due respect to those concerned, one of the refreshing things about third gen is that there are no politics or religion or sex in discussion. Even the swearing is edited and while I can cuss with the best of them, I can appreciate the policy.
Yes, there ARE limitations. The site is generally pretty lax in allowing some latitude, but only to a point. However, it gets really challenging when someone starts crossing the line from multiple angles. Personally, I don't care if someone gathers their Green-o-cratic-can-eral-tarian party pundits, invades your Tuesday night sabbatical holy gathering, and tells you all to go **ck yourselves via an alternate entry point, but just DON'T do it on the hood of my ThirdGen.
In other words, no one likes censorship, even (especially) from the side of having to perform it. In order to maintain some level of decorum, there is sometimes no alternative. On the other side, we are NOT your mommy. Grow a pair, thicken your skin, roll with it, get a life, (or whatever phrase you prefer) and understand that alternate perspectives have the same permissions as your perspective. That way we can all enjoy the site content like skinny z and ignore the peripheral fluff. If you actually want the turmoil, go to FaceSheet, Tweaker/XYZ, Ching-Chong, Leaked-In (FakeBooks for the office) or some other platform which allows you to cry saltwater onto your phone but provides no meaningful content.
Huh? Is that a joke set up? I don't "get it". I'm a little slow, sometimes! .
Yes, you got it. "Retard politician" is a lot like "dumb idiot" or "boiling hot" or "slow Hyundai" or other blatant redundancies. One or the other is sufficient, but only one to a customer, please.
...Im just trying to provide info for the small group of TPI guys who might be interested in adding some power to a TPI car when they restore their F body.
Some of us appreciate the effort. Actually, probably quite a lot of us. Most of us can filter through all the material without getting sideways/offended/insulted. Just be aware that there are posting rules and limitations, and keep the good information coming.
I think it’s better if I just pull out. The results will still get posted in other places and that’s if I don’t lose interest between now and then. You gotta understand I do this to a new car every year so. I still am very much in love with this car so I doubt that’ll happen. I drool over it in the garage every day. I also got off TGO almost 15 years ago because of the drama and I have not been back until now. It’s no loss, trust me! My life will still continue being life. Where I take issue is when entities treat everyone like the lowest example and start curtailing our values and freedoms. That being said, I also dont appreciate how TGO can allow the freedom of an assh0le post which starts **** constantly but you can’t say anything or express yourself about your country? Seems fishy.
If you ask me I think Kevin91Z is a liberal and I’m not surprised considering he’s living in SoCal. That fact with the realization that IB has been sued several times and they’ve failed at suing others which got thrown out tells you who they are! These people are right off the PCH in California and I flat out don’t want to contribute to the success of any company operating like this nor do I want to be monitored by a person like Kevin. Dude hadn’t even sent me a message! Maybe I’ll post it on ATGO. Thats a solid site and it’s local. I know the guys who run it and it’s been around forever.
I appreciate your support and I hope we can meet again.
did. this thread about an engine/head/intake combo die because of politics? fill me in? I mean I'm 99% sure this was a waste of time effort and money. tpi is always going to tpi. but it was interesting to see if someone could prove it wrong.
that's kinda sad. so many emotional people around these days.
Camshaft wise is to be determined and is something I would like to talk about. There is a lot of cam theory going around and that covers a lot of information. I can tell you that the idea behind this is squeeze as much VE as possible which means as the piston rounds BDC and the intake valve is closing, I need to have a later IVC even with low lift flow to inertia ram the intake charge into the cylinder. The downside of inertia ramming can be reversion at lower RPM. So Im not really sure what to do here. I have thought about having Charlie cut 50* seats to help prevent reversion and couple that with a later IVC and we are looking at that.
Using Vizards cam calculator, a 350 would want a 108 LSA and I think I could run one that tight if I kept the duration down. As a matter of fact, GM sells a 215/223 .473/.473 108 cam in its SP357 crate engine with iron Vortec heads and it actually has LESS overlap than a Lingenfelter 219 does. Just goes to show you, not all tight LSA cams have major overlap. All that being said, I want the car to have a noticeable idle but nothing choppy. I need the car to idle with AC, drive very well and still pull to 6000.
I will probably have Mike Jones cut a custom cam for this so I am leaving as little on table as possible. As David Vizard says, a custom cam and a shelf cam cost difference is negligent, so why not pick the right cam? That being said, I have a very nice brand new Lingenfelter 219 already which is a proven TPI cam thatll drive nice, but Ive never seen a 219 pull to 6000rpm. What I am most impressed by lately is Jim Halls 355 which pulled clean to 5900 at 396hp with long runners using a TPIS Lil Chubs 220/224 .500/.500 110 LSA. Thats an amazing TPI engine and he should be very proud. What do you guys think would work best?
i bought the TPIS lil chubs cam but im unsure what pushrods and lifters Ill need to install it TPIS has yet to call me back on taking my money. I really want to install it but need to make sure its right. I have edlebrock aluminum heads with 1.6 roller rockers. Any help will be very much appreciated.
I'm a little slow, sometimes! 
