Okay heres the deal, my wife was driving my car, (1989 IROC-Z Camaro, 350TPI). She ran out of gas, (don't ask me how), she got it pushed to a gas station, put gas in it, tryied starting it. It started fine, then died. I knew my alternator was going as the day before I was having problems with it. She got it jumped and it would run with the jumper cables on but when they were removed the car would die a few seconds later. (Okay I say replace the alternator) DONE! When I went to restart the car it wouldn't start, I checked and I found that I had no spark from my coil and no fuel in my fuel rail??? I checked all my relays and the fuseable links and they checked out?? I also noticed that when I turned the key to the on position the "Check Engine Light" wasn't coming on??? CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME!!!!?????!??!?!

Do you think I fried my computer or ECM chip?? Please help me out I have no idea what to do???

 

Have you tried jumping it since replacing the alternator? Or replacing the battery? Do the lights in your cabin turn on? Sounds like you aren't getting any power to your fuel pump or computer, ignition, etc. There should still be pressure at the rails.. that could possibly indicate another problem since there is no fuel.

 

dont think the ol lady ran out of fuel-she ran out of battery. that is after she ran out of alternator. put in new fully charged battery along with a quality (ac delco) reman alt with correct output methinks that will fixxxittt :nono:

 

Done already put a good battery in it, got full charge when the cables are on, she just wont fire up. She could turn over all day, but she just won't fire up?? HELP ME OUT GUYS!!

Later

Steve D in Hawaii

 

OK, since you aren't getting fuel to the fuel rail (you checked the Shrader valve?) sounds like might be fuel pump related. If you turn the key on but not try to start the car, can you hear the pump running at all? It should pressurize the system..........check the fuel pump relay first, then it may point toward the fuel pump itself.

 

Reference the Fuel Pump relay........

When lookin at all 3 relays behind the power brake booster which one of the 3 would it be ???

 

I'm gonna say it's your fuel pump....if your wife ran out of gas, the pump could've been fried...it happened to me in my 96 Chev 1500. The truck would turn over, but would not start...changed the fuel pump and presto....no problems.

 

This has happen to me a few times. I have a 66 stang being that the car is old if i would let the tank go dry the fuel filter would fill up w/dirt, rust and whatever else was in there for 30 years. I say replace the fuel filter. Are cars aren't gettin any younger!!It's only $5 or so.

 

here-put 12 volts to aldl terminal "G" should power up f-pump-most gm vehicles have the "G" terminal populated some rare cases dont. check for a terminal inside g if its there 12v go to it pump should run-later

 

I have an '89 IROC that did the same thing (didn't run out of gas though before it happened). Take a look behind/ around the battery for wires with fuses in them (one is hooked to the fuel pump and I believe it is a 20 amp). I had blown one of these for some reason and car would crank but not fire.

Sparks a flyin'

 

fuse adjacent to battery is ecm fuse.

 

I noticed you said that THE SERVICE ENGINE LIGHT DOES NOT COME ON , this is the first clue I picked up on, you may have a blown fusible link that supples the computer with power. One way to check it out is with a simple test light, drop the computer out, find the main power wire and see if you have power to the computer, if not, find that fusible link and replace it. Remind you, this is only if the SES light is NOT on.

 

Yes you are correct the check engine light (SES) light is not coming on! I will do what you suggested and I will let you know! You are the first person that has picked up on this. Thanks!!

If you have any other tips or input could you email me at sbd4de3@yahoo.com?

I would appreciate it alot!

Steve D in Hawaii

 

the first to suggest the fuse near the battery???
someone suggested that yesterday...

zroc

 

You people should actually READ something before you post something to it!

Thanks for the help!

Steve

 

Who are you directing that to? For some reason, I did not see th epost about the ECM fuse, sorry, but apparently steve didn't notice either.

 

I'm sure it was directed at me... I posted that on a different message board...

http://camaronet.dynu.com/cgi-bin/ir...stID=217025562

the thing is you have not responded on what you have checked to help narrow done the problem...

zroc

 

ahh.. ok cool... I read your post.. and the rest of the posts... he definately blew his fusible link for the ECM... straight short... lesson #1 Don't let someone else hook up terminals

 

Aight, I've checked the fusible links at the starter and they were all good. I checked all the relays I could find in the engine bay, and besides one being a little cooked they were all good too.

The one that was cooked a bit was fine but it looked like it may have gotten a little hot at one time?? It doesn't control the ECM, (I can't remember what it went to right now, but I will replace it later).

As far as the fusible link to the ECM wouldnt it keep the starter from turning over if it was burnt??

Also I checked the voltage on my battery and it is reading a perfect 13volts??? The alternator is brand new so know it will work once I get it running!

Sorry about that post earlier I didn't know you were talking about the same thing as what you posted in that other forum, MY BAD!

Thanks though for all the help you guys have given.


Steve

 

Hey Steve,

I am still wondering if you looked at that fuse over by the batery... its not a fusable link its a blade type fuse... in my 86 and 87 it is sort of tucked up in the pass side fender... if you have checked that and its ok let us know (its been driving me nutz)... thanks...

zroc

ps I'll post this on the other board as well...

 

last chance here amongst the horn blowing-have you verified that every fuse in the car is intact-im meaning the under dash ones? did you try to power up the pump thru the aldl? do you have a good reliable 12v test light? what have you attempted in the diagnostic portion of this problem and has it pointed you anywhere? or i am confused to sh-t here-someone is saying "definately" that it was a f-link, so the car, is it fixed? im not playing if we arent gonna communicate here or is no help needed? ummmmmm hate that" d" word

 

I don't think mine has that fuse under the pass. fender?? I am finally off work with enough time to check out the rest of this stuff!! I will check to see if mine has that fuse, BLADE TYPE HUH? I got abunch of those so if it is one I will have no problem replacing it! Thanks Zroc!



Yes all fuses in the fuse panel are good, I thought I mentioned that earlier? I guess it may have been on another board as I posted this same topic in like four different ones, (that won't happen again, it's been hell trying to remember everything from where it was posted and all!!!

What terminal do I use to power up the fuel pump on the diagnostic "aldl"?? I've seen it done before but I can't remember how to do it and your description leaves that info out? Sorry!!!

And to answer your last question, No, the car is still dead.

Does anybody have an answer to this next question??

 

if you have a "cooked" fusable link I would definately replace it...

zroc

 

terminal g-read my posts too-and no if the ecm isnt powered up you will still be able to crank the engine with the ign.switch. be aware the ecm has more than one 12 v feed it has 3 i think. 2 are constant- and one switched but isnt vats a factor in this somewhere? is it cranking over? VATSVATSVATS you do have a pellet in your key dont you? we have a vats problem-no maybe not-you got no ses lite-dam. is it cranking?

 

Zroc, I would definately replace a cooked fusible link but I havent found one yet, it was a relay on the firewall that I stated was cooked, I checked it and it is fine, I will however replace it after I get the car running!

Grumpygreaseape, sorry about not catching the G terminal thing, couldnt hardly understand that post, read it over again and caught it this time! I will check the fuel pump with the G terminal and see if it turns it on!!

Yes, the engine will crank, hell it will crank all day long if I wanted it to!!! When I try to start my car the starter runs but the motor won't start up, the SES (A.K.A. "Check engine") light is not coming on.

Yes, I have the chip in my key and I am getting the "Security light" on when I turn on the key, but it goes off as I am cranking the engine, so it wouldn't be a VATS problem would it? I thought that when the VATS system goes out the "Security" light doesn't come on, just to let you know it's not working??

Hope this catches everybody up to everybody else?!?!?!

Thanks again for your help and I will read everybodies posts twice or more before replying!! LOL!

Later guys, I'm going to bed, 1215am here in Hawaii, see ya'll!

I will be checking the stuff on my car tomorrow so I will post any new info I get, I will come back here and read any replies you guys post so I might get some more ideas before I begin working on my car!



See ya!

Steve D in Hawaii

 

Did you check for power at the ECM yet? I have no idea where the fuse, or fusible link, is on the F-Body. I had a similar problem on this with my old Grand AM. It happened after I had dropped the engine and changed the clutch, put it all back together and it wouldn't start. It was the fusible link for the ECM, for that car, it was rightby the battery.

 

Steve,

I made a couple more posts on jims board... keep in mind that I'm trying to laugh with you...

I wish I was in Hawaii to help you out... its been to long since I was last there... you could send me a ticket...

zroc

 

Any update on your problem status?? I have my manuals here now, if you need some pointers on which wires to check... I believe the 12V Constant power supplies are orange, yes, they are. Just checked the book.... it shows terminals "B1" and "C16", according to th emanual, they should be side by side.

 

You guys won't believe this crap, my wifes car pooped the bed on me and for the past two days I haven't even been able to look at my car then as soon as I get hers fixed I get called into work. Man this sucks, I won't be able to look at my car until this weekend, but I will take everything you guys have suggested and try all of them, then I will let you guys know what is going on!!

Sorry, this delay is killing me, not having my car is killing me!!

Talk to you guys later!

Steve D in Hawaii

 

Okay heres an update!! It's 345pm Hawaii time so I am not yet done working on my baby but I have some news!!!

I tried doing a diag with the ALDL but the light is not coming on, which leads me to believe that I have a blown bulb?? I haven't pulled the computer down yet to check the 12v lines. I am going to go out and check the fusible link coming right off the battery after I post this to one other forum.

But I do have some good news, I talked with my mechanic back in VA and he suggested changing the ignition module in the distributor, I did that and I am now getting spark and when I use the 12v to G terminal test the fuel pump primes.

Also the car is now starting on carburetor cleaner?? I fixed one thing but its still not running by itself??

Thanks for the email and hopefully with all your help I can get her running again!

Talk to you later!

Steve D in Hawaii

 

Okay heres another update, I can't find the fusible link or fuse or whatever on my car. This is how my car is setup. My battery is on the passenger side and I have two wires coming off the positive terminal.

One goes to a junction and two small wires come out of the junction and the original wire continues to the alternator, the two small wires run into a wire loom and *** only knows where those go after that, they head back to the firewall and enter the car between the passenger door and body of the car.

The other wire goes down to the starter/silenoid and I have four branching wires going into three fusible links down there, I have checked all the fusible links and they were good, it was dark and I may have tested them wrong so I am going to jack the car up again now during the day and check them again??

Please post any ideas or email me directly at sbd4de3@yahoo.com and I will reply to you as soon as I can!

Thanks guys, and please continue to help me out please!

Later

Steve D in Hawaii

 

Ok... apparently there is a fuse by the battery like everyone says.. I sent you am e-mail with the diagram

here is a small version of it

click on this link





Emissions Devices for 1987 - 1989 TPI2.jpg

 

You say the fuel pump primed with voltage to "G" but does not come on with the ignition switch. If not mistaken, I think if you trace this wire to the relay block it is tied to the switch leg to the fuel pump for testing. Get your wife or child to turn the key on while you are feeling the relay this wire connects to. You should feel the relay click. If the relay doesn't clip, it is more than likely bad. Locate the coil wire to this relay. Apparently you have a volt meter, you stated the battery voltage earlier. With the key on, you should have 12 volts on the relay coil wire for 2 seconds. If you have a digital volt meter you may not see this voltage. An older meter set on low scale you should see the needle jump. That said, if you do not feel the relay close, it is bad. To confirm connect a jumper from the battery to the relay coil, if good it will click. If not, it is bad. Replace this fuel pump relay. This is more than likely the one you earlier said looked fried. It probably is, and is not closing the contacts for the pump.

 

Hey thanks, I will check that relay again and see if the one that is fried is the FP relay?? Thanks for the post!!

I will let you guys know if I get it running!!

Steve

 

OKAY!!!! CHECK THIS OUT!! I found the fuse and guess what???

OH YEAH!!! GO BABY ITS MY BIRTHDAY!!!! Man what an awesome birthday present!!

The thing was blown! A freakin blown 20 amp fuse and my car was totally disabled!!

I replaced it and now I am getting my check engine light (SES) light when I turn the key and my fuel pump totally primes the crap outta my fuel injectors!!! LOL!

The only thing bad now is I think my battery is like totally dead! The thing won't even turn my car over with a charger on it!! I'm going to put my wifes battery in and see if that one will start it!

I really appreciate all you guys, for all your input and helpfull tips and tricks!! I'm just hoping that it is only my battery keeping it from starting now!!

Talk to you guys later! I will post any news I get!

Later!

Steve D in Hawaii

 

victory

 

ALL I CAN SAY IS THANK YOU ALL!!

I replaced the fuse, man is that bugar a sneaky one!!

Thanks NBlanchard for the pic!! I never would have found it without that!! You can tell a horse where to get water and he'll die of thirst, but you lead a horse to water and he'll eat fish for the rest of his life!! Ahhh? No that's not how it goes? Oh well thanks abunch!!

Now the only problem I have is my stereo ain't comin on??? Think I may have blown the fuse in the back of the head unit because the one on the fuse block is good?? Oh well at least my car is running!!

Good guys: 1
Bad Gremlins: 0

Good job all of you!!

Steve D in Hawaii