I just sold to a 55 year old lady (I am a salesman at an Olds/Pontiac dealer) a '99 T/A, and coming in on trade is her '89 Formula LB9/automatic she bought new from us in '89. The car has 103k on it, and has always been dealer serviced. No accidents, seems to run good, good shape except for the body (rust here and there), etc...

I'm going to bring it home tonight and drive it for a few days to see how it goes. If I buy it, I can get it for $1,000...to me, an absolute steal for a documented, original car.

What should I look for when looking over this car? The engine has not been modded, other than bad valve seals it seems to run fine, its never been raced or wrecked...with a TPI car, what are problems associated with these?? For the price, I could turn around and resell it and make money if I got in over my head, but I do plan to keep it, and after grad school restore it. I just want to know what I may be getting into problem-wise when buying an older TPI...the only third gen I have owned was an '89 Camaro 2.8 that had been in the family since new.

Any help anyone can give is sincerely appreciated. I just can't wait to drive this thing...the only V8 third gen I ever drove was a 217k mile '86 LG4 T/A

 

Typically there isn't anything unique to a well used TPI thirdgen... TPI doens't have any moving parts that wear... you've got fuel injectors and thats about it.

I would suggest driving a couple different 305's and 350's before deciding on one. Otherwise a week or two after you buy the car you could decide you'd rather have held out for a 350.

The big things to look for with any thirdgen are:

Tires ($600/set for 16's)
leaks (difficult/expensive to fix)
rust (difficult/expensive to fix)
body (difficult/expensive to fix)
interior (difficult/expensive to fix)
alignment (indicative of misuse/abuse)

The price sounds more then reasonable, but an LB9 auto still isn't a real barn burner. Probably high 14's-low 15's in the 1/4.

 

Thanks for the tips, Drew. About the only real imminent battle I seem to face with this car is rust. There is no external rot on the car, but I have been told by one of the techs at work who always works on this car (she always had it serviced with us since new) that the insides of the front fenders are rotted away, even though there is no visible rot on the outside (don't ask me what he means by this...guess I'll see it when I throw it in the garage tonight). He did say the floorboards are fine though. The t-tops supposedly don't leak, despite the fact that the passenger t-top weatherstripping along the top of the window is all mashed down from closing the door on it, as many of these cars do through time. For some reason, I think she's giving me some here. A hose can tell the tale though...The interior does not smell, and has no signs of water damage. Actually, for a third gen not owned by me (), the interior is as good as I could ask for...no stains or holes.

I didn't know if TPIs had any inherent, expensive traits in terms of maintenance, over and above the norm. I know the basic engine is a bulletproof SBC, just didn't know if TPIs happen to be expensive to fix (sensors, tendency to foul injectors, etc.)

Also, while it would be cool to drive a couple others first, at this point for me, its this car or nothing. This is a 3rd car for me, and I'm starting grad school this summer...this thing is pretty much a cheap toy!! If I had more money available, there is a 71k 350 Formula for sale at another dealer, but they want $3k for it...too much for me. The fact that this is one of the slower TPIs is fine with me...hell, I was happy driving a '91 305 TBI 'Bird I took in on trade last fall! Thanks for the 1/4 #s...I was curious what these things ran. But this is gonna be a cruiser, not a road warrior. The fact its a 305 doesn't really bother me at all...
If anyone has anything to add, I'd really like to hear it. Thanks again.

 

For a grand? Take it! If for no other purpose, you'll have a fun cheap daily driver. If it's nice enough, you have a cheap project car. win-win situation.

 

See if it has a performance axle and posi; the RPO codes are under the console box lid.

If you can get the FP changed at work at a good price plan on it. Since the exhaust & tank have to come down it can be a pricy repair. Of course mine didn't go until after 140k miles.

Also find out what he meant by inner fenders rusted. You don't want a large body shop bill immediately.

If things look fairly good, sounds like a win to me. An LB9 with Ts is sweet for the summer and not bad in the winter. Plus the LB9 & A4 in '89 were much stronger than earlier years.

 

when thinking about expensive TPI sensors.. the MAF comes to mind....

 

Well, I've driven it 150 miles in the last 18 hours, so here's what I've found:

-Oil had not been changed for NINE THOUSAND MILES Obviously, she knew she was getting rid of it eventually. I took home the service dept file on it, and she was good with oil changes until 80k miles or so, then started doing them every 6-7k, except for this last one When I got it, there was no oil on the dipstick!! 2 quarts added later, its down not even 1/3 of a quart. If it only burned a little over 2 quarts in 9k miles, I say thats damn good...Motor purrs like a kitten though, and the tranny is perfect. MAF sensor was changed at 65k (the one concern I had with TPI)

-Has new alternator and starter (both have been changed like 4 times now!!! WHY???), new Eagle GT2s, exhaust, A/C recharged.

-Rear springs and shocks shot (car sits a little low), needs tranny mount and alignment

-And this is the one that kills me...the power hatch motor crapped out this morning I have an extra one off a junk car, but I don't know if it works. Now the trunk closes fully (hatch struts shot too), but will not latch, as the power motor does not pop up and allow it to. I checked the fuse panel, and I don't see any blown ones. What is the fuse for the hatch motor?? I don't have the owners manual to it...

Thats about it. Runs solid, good interior, cruddy paint. Not bad for $1k, but now this hatch motor is bugging me. How much is a new one?? If I try to put this one in, how the hell do I do it?? I took the rear panel off, and I can see the 3 bolts for it, but how do I know I have it aligned right?? How do I even know if its the motor itself??

Thanks for any answers to these dumb questions

 

Hatch motors are even more unreliable than MAFs. My GTA hatch motor took a crap the FIRST time I used it after I bought the car. I swapped in another one, and it took a crap a week later. Now all 3 of my cars have non-powered hatch mechanisms.

 

Heres a few things you may want to think about:

You said it had bad valve seals??? Does it smoke when cold and start hard when hot? If so it may have a bad injector thats stuck open soaking down one of the cylinders. I learned this from experience

Also the hatch motor has a switch on the very top that sometimes gets stuck down or becomes faulty. This switch is what makes the assembly move up into position. Anyone who knows electronics can replace the switch for you for a few bucks if need be.

 

Hmmm...it only smokes occassionally on start up, and smokes barely more than my old 2.8 '89 Camaro. Starts like a champ every time.

As for this switch on the hatch assembly, can you tell me more about what it looks like??

And Jim, what is necessary to convert over to a manual assembly? This is the option I would much rather do, as I'm sure I can get the assembly cheap. Also, I'm sure my uncle's shop could do the conversion for me.

Thanks again...any other advice?

 

I agree!! Buy it.....maybe.

 

Hehehe...thats my general thought right now Gonna try to put my used hatch motor in tomorrow and see what happens...can't believe I'm working on a car I don't own yet!!!

I took some upholstery cleaner to a few spots...this interior is CLEAN. The car is an absolute steal...just hope that if I buy it, I don't go broke. Grad school is kinda important, and I have the Z already...

But its soooo much fun to bomb around in. She's rough around the edges, but in a couple years when I can really get into restoring it, it'll be a sweet car...

 

If you find the IROC-Z you can always buy it then sell that for the $$, unless you want all of those cars.

 

i know what your mech means by interior fender rot..
grap it by the lip of the wheelwell and pull up and down a bit.. see if it moves.. if it does, it's pretty bad...
open your door and look where the door meets the fender.. take a flashlight..
if i would of known when i bought my car........
but then i didn't get it for 1k.. now that's just sweet.. and putting in another 1k to have it tip top or thereabouts would be pretty sweet.. (2k for a decent firebird)
i find my lb9 pretty peppy with 3.27 posi, a cam and a catback exhaust..
see.. all those things can be done when
a) you have the money and desire to do so
b) when you decide to restore it.. drive it as a daily driver for now.. no rush.

 

Two Words

Buy It

 

Originally posted by Jason E
>Has new alternator and starter (both have been changed like 4 times now!!! WHY???), new Eagle GT2s, exhaust, A/C recharged.

Probably the battery on it's way out. Bad battery can cause problems for those parts. I also know old people to hold down the key in START a *little* too long.

>Rear springs and shocks shot (car sits a little low), needs tranny mount and alignment

All piece of cake 30 minute jobs.

>And this is the one that kills me...the power hatch motor crapped out this morning I have an extra one off a junk car, but I don't know if it works. Now the trunk closes fully (hatch struts shot too), but will not latch, as the power motor does not pop up and allow it to. I checked the fuse panel, and I don't see any blown ones. What is the fuse for the hatch motor?? I don't have the owners manual to it...

It's a thirdgen thang.

>Thats about it. Runs solid, good interior, cruddy paint. Not bad for $1k, but now this hatch motor is bugging me. How much is a new one?? If I try to put this one in, how the hell do I do it?? I took the rear panel off, and I can see the 3 bolts for it, but how do I know I have it aligned right?? How do I even know if its the motor itself??

It's a deal for a grand. Get it.

>Thanks for any answers to these dumb questions

 

Thanks for the responses everyone. I like hearing people's thoughts on this car and the issues it has...

My best friend is coming up from Florida in 3-4 weeks, and he has two extra working hatch motors...so that solves that problem For now I'm just going to tie the hatch down inside...it only bounces when you hit a bump quick anyways! My dad and I are gonna get under it tonight finally to have a look...damn car doesn't even leave an oil spot on the driveway larger than a pinhead! I am now 99% sure I'm buying it...

I grin every time I goose it a little to 3 grand...such nice torque! This thing will make a fun daily driver I can strip down in a couple years and redo the proper way. I could throw a cheapo paint job on it now, but why waste the money?? Mu girlfriend does wonders with bondo and spray paint...and no, I ain't kidding

 

Well, I got under it last night...has a small oil leak coming from somewhere around the intake gasket (not leaving spots though...good!), I saw where the fenders are rotted, has a small power steering hose leak, and thats it!!! Floors are solid, exhaust looks like brand new, tires very good (Eagle GT2s), front brakes good, no leaky rear end...after another long drive, it needs an alignment and front wheels balanced now, and its going to get tie rods, shocks, struts and springs this summer. Also, the plugs and wires are ancient...but all this is easy stuff

Needless to say, I'm making out a purchase agreement tonight Big day for my family...my dad is taking delivery tonight of the Sunset Orange brand new Formula I sold him, and I'm buying mine. It'll be staying at the dealer for a couple weeks until I can get the Grand Am into storage, and transfer the plates.

Somehow though, 3 muscle cars doesn't seem like enough for a father/son combo

 

Don't know if you fixed the hatch problem yet, but I had the same problem and it was driving me nuts! It was stuck in the down position, so when I closed the hatch, it wouldn't latch. That switch just needed to be tripped. We did this with a flathead screwdriver. The switch is down in where the mechanism that latches to the hatch is. Just stick the screwdriver into the mechanism and flip the locking/latching mechanism and that should activate it and put the motor to life. All this is contingent upon the assumption that that is the problem. The front struts take some elbowgrease to remove because the bottom bolts are torqued down really tight and probably haven't been moved for some time. The back shocks can take some time too because you have to pull back the cargo carpet to get to the topside nuts on those. But for $1000, that's a deal. I wouldn't recommend it since it is not wrecked, but you could part it out for more than that.