supermaxxbasher

How many of you have done one of these swaps and what was the hardest part.

pskel350

i did the swap, there is nothing hard about it. had the whole thing done in under a day. the hardest part was probably cutting the holes in the firewall, but even that is easy todo. goodluck with it

supermaxxbasher

I was at a junkyard today and they have a firebird with all the manual tranny stuff in it but the tranny is blown so I am getting all of this for $50 if I pull it

Gumby

You may find it very helpful to pay the guy $10 more and have him cut the whole drivers side floor pan out. Beats climbing under around and all over in a nasty junk yard. Makes the install much easier too with it all in one hunk. You could also just splice that one in and make things real easy if you got a welder.

Matt

supermaxxbasher

its actually in the cleanest areas there. Its got solid ground to work on. I don't have a welder. I need to get one though.

kjgroen

I did the swap 2 years ago. the hardest part was getting the right torque arm mount! seriously it was a pretty straight forward job once you have all the nessecary pieces to do it

Chickenman35

Did the swap about 5 years ago. Hardest part was cutting hole in Firewall...just an awkward angle....and swapping in the new Pedal Box assembly. Top bolt location ( The 5th bolt that goes into the upper dash brace ) would not line up with bolt hole...out by about 1\4". Apparently a Production change in the pedal box.

Got a real good deal on the parts though... Autowrecker was really impressed when I pulled all of the Hydraulics and the Pedal Box assembly in a mid-January snowstorm

supermaxxbasher

I can't wait to get mine in. What kinda of gains to you get with a 5 speed i.e. 1/4 mile times and gas mileage. My motor is gonna produce around 400hp the end of this year but don't worry I am either going to have a t-56 or a tremec Tko put in.

supermaxxbasher

I can't wait to get mine in. What kinda of gains to you get with a 5 speed i.e. 1/4 mile times and gas mileage. My motor is gonna produce around 400hp the end of this year but don't worry I am either going to have a t-56 or a tremec Tko put in.

25THRSS

depends on setup, but an auto will usually be faster in the 1/4 when setup right.

Chickenman35

The 700R4's sure eat a lot of power though...roughly 70 to 75hp from what I've read. Definately more than a TH350 and even a TH400.

Was really noticable when I switched from a 700R4 to a T-5 at the Knox Mountain Hillclimb. Made a difference on how hard the engine pulled. Car was much, much faster in a straight line.... pulling up a long steep straight.

25THRSS

there's no set amount of driveline loss from a 700r4 or t5, some lose more, some lose less. Like I said though, for 1/4 mile drag racing, an automatic transmission will be faster if setup right. You might pull slightly better trap speeds with a manual, but your ET's, which IMO is what really counts, will be faster with the auto, not to mention more consistant. Each transmission has their advantages/disadvantages, but for a drag racing application where the lauch means everything and consistancy plays a big role in it as well, the auto is just better. Stick with the 700r4 and get a converter to match your combo and you will fly.

2.73's Suck

I did this swap this spring and it was easy, except having to find all the bolts for it cause they guy i got the swap from didnt seem to think i needed them, so the trips to sears hardware was the hardest part.

SSC

The swap for me was easy. I had car A. my car and car B. donor car in front of me to work from so it took a little less then day to complete. The hardest part for me was finding a manual console piece that fit my car.

The most annoying part was a few days later I helped my brother convert his 4th gen V6 to a 5 speed. That car had knock outs so no measuring was needed.

Chickenman35

Yep..agree with you that an Auto will usually be faster than a Stick for the average Bracket Racer.....not arguing that...consistancy reaps huge benefits. Plus the T-f doesn't shift all that fast.....mind you ...a Jerico on the other hand

But the 700R4 does certainly eat a lot of HP. I've seen figures from 65 to 75 HP reported in different mags over the years. Be nice to see and actual side by side Tranny dyno test sometime comparing different models. I wonder of any mags have actually done this? Hmmmm..

700R4's very inefficient design. A lot of the problem seems to be related to pumping losses and internal frictional losses.

A Turbo 350 is still one of the best bets for the strip.

Lately a lot of guys have been going the 200R4 route if they want an OD tranny. With all the afternarket parts available from the Buick Turbo V6 crowd this is a very good alternative. Much lighter than a 700R4 and much less parasitic power loss. Can easily handle Mega HP and Torque...some of those Huffer's are putting 800HP through a 200R4...so they can be made plenty strong.

I have an article somewhere in my pile of magazines about swapping in a 200R4 as a replacemaent for a 700R4. I'll see if I can dig it out. Was fairly recent. Either Super Chevy or CHP.

25THRSS

try telling probuilt that or all the LS1 guys using the 4L60E, which is just an electronically controlled version of the 700r4. Remember though that, the loss is a percentage, not a set number. Turbo 350's are good trannys I agree, but no overdrive is a big drawback for me.

Chickenman35

Tell them what? I don't understand what you're trying to say?

Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm just repeating what I have read in numerous articles.....700R4's do eat a lot of HP when compared to other Transmissions, such as 200R4's, Turbo 350's and Turbo 400's..

Total drivetrain loss is represented as a percentage...but the power required to rotate a transmission at a given speed with a given output load is a direct HP correlation. That is a simple mathematical calculation.

The typical Drivetrain loss that is calculated on a Chassis dyno is of course shown as a percentage. I think that is what you are referring to. Correct?

However... if you actually hook up a Tranny to a Dyno...typically driven by an large industrial Electric motor, you can have a direct HP loss reading. At a given input RPM, with a given load the pumping\frictional losses can be directly measured as HP\Torque loss. And you can compare different transmissions this way. That's is the testing method I am referring to.

Winston Cup Teams ( And most Professional Teams in all forms of Motorsport ) do this to measure Frictional losses on everything from Transmissions, Rear ends, Water Pumps...and even Frictional losses of the engine itself. Added together...all of these losses add up to a percentage of the power output. But taken individually these losses can be measured in a finite method and an actual figure put to it.

A transmission does not know if it is behind a 400hp engine or a 500hp engine. If a Transmission causes a 50hp power loss..that number does not vary. IE: at 5,00rpm input shaft speed, with a load cell equivalent to a 3,000 lb vehicle. It still takes 50 hp to drive this " pump" at that speed and load. That is a constant. It doesn't matter how much HP the engine delivers.. the tranny will still absorb 50HP. The percentage of HP loss will of course vary depending on the engine output....

If you where testing with a 400 hp engine, this would represent a 12.5% power loss. With a 500hp engine...a 10% power loss, etc, etc.

But.. the actual power consumed by the transmission in a controlled state would be expressed directly as HP and Torque loss.

We're basically saying the same thing...we're just measuring it in a different way.

Now you've got me going...gotta find that 200R4 article and some of my Art Carr stuff

Hope I've cleared up what I've been trying to say.

supermaxxbasher

WWWWOOOOOOWWWWWWW thats cool. But I will prolly in up either going with the t-56 or one of the tremec trannies.

supermaxxbasher

Do there tremec trannies have good torque ratings and do they perform well.

Justin 87 GTA

iTrader: (3)

can you please find that 200-4R article,.. will the tranny work with my computer? will it bolt in, is it the same size, shifter, speedo and all that will work the same? thanks

25THRSS

You already have a 700r4. There is nothing wrong with that transmission. It would be a big waste of money to do the swap IMO.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

200-4R's have a better gear spread

Chickenman35

Yes...I agree 100%. Unless...you wanted to make a maximum effort Automatic street car and had the money to burn. Then it might make sense. The lighter weght and increased efficiency are definately gonna help.

The 200R4's in the GN's are obviously capable of getting the job done...but some mods must be made. These don't come cheaply...but what ever does?

One of the articles is in the December issue of Chevy High Performance. While the swap was done on an " A" body, it should work with and F-Body as well. Driveshaft length would be different of course but the biggest hurdle would be the Torque arm. Something like a Spohn Torque Arm with it's separate frame attachment should fix that hurdle. Would be an interesting project.

Dana: What do you think of this? If you were swapping from a T-5 to an Auto.....would a 200R4 be a viable option?

The company featured in CHP is California Performance Transmission...formally Art Carr Co.

Chickenman35

No...No and No. This is a project for some one willing to take the time and expense of fabrication to get some extra benefits. Definately not a bolt in.

More feasable if going from a T-5 to and Auto car with a Carburator. Typical weekend warrior that still can be driven on street and retain an OD.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

I did it also in under a day, but the hardest part for me was getting the brake and clutch pedals mounted in the car under the steering column. Probably would have been easier with the column removed.