OK, heres my dilemma. I had my T5 replaced by AAMCO this summer(I know.. stupid.) They were supposed to rebuild mine, but they ended up just replacing it with a remanufactured one. My question is, is threre any way of distinguishing a World Class T5 from a standard one externally?

I have my doubts they put the correct World Class version in because I used to tach around 1950 in 5th gear at 60mph and now I tach around 1750. I'm worried because I know the standard T5 is good for 270 pound of torque and the WC is good for 305 pounds. I figure my car is making more than the 300 pounds it made when stock and I dont want to grenade the trans. (it cost 2 grand)

I made sure to tell him about it before they started working on it, and he said no problem, but now I have my doubts. What should I do?

 

Look on the trans for a metal ID tag with numbers on it, and then crossreference it over at this page - http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html

I hope you didn't get screwed by those guys.

 

thanks. where exactly on the trans is the tag?

BTW..I'm from Rutherford but I live in Sussex Co. now. you?

 

WHat your tach reads has nothing to do with whether the trans is 1st design or 2nd design. THey are both available with the same gear ratio options.

Sounds like maybe you had one in your car with the inferior LG4/L03 5th gear ratio (.63:1), and you got one with the high-performance 5th gear (.76:1). I'd consider that a bonus, especially if your car has one of the lower gear ratios like 3.23; now it will have an easier time going up hills and stuff like that on the highway, without having to shift to 4th quite as often.

There is really only one way to tell for certain which design the trans is, from outside the case. Fortunately it's very easy to see. Look on the front of the transmission case, where it mates to the bell housing, near the bottom, to the pass side of the center. You will find a round thing about 2½" in diameter. It will either look completely flat, except with sort of rolled-over edges, like an upside-down freeze plug, and rather shiny; or, it will have sharp edges, and will have a depression in the center that leaves what looks like about a 3/16" wide ridge all the way around it, and have a kind of dull finish. The first type is the 1st design; the 2nd type is the 2nd design.

Here's what they look like out of the car. You can see about ½" of it, when it's installed.

 

Thanks for the info.

This is what I now about my original trans.

It was of the World Class variety. The kind that are in all 5.0 TPI 5 speed F bodies produced after 87. The code for it is MK6. The reason I mention the difference in rpm, is that the WC T5 has a .74 5th gear while the standard T5 has a .63. Throttle body and I think earlier 4bbl cars have this numerically lower ratio.

There is definitely a difference in my rpm's in 5th. I dont think looking at it externally is going to help since they could have used any casing and stuffed new gears in it. I just hope its as tough as my original trans since I'm pretty much stuck at this point.

 

There is no difference in the 5th gear ratios between 1st design and 2nd design. The .63:1 came in LG4 and L03 cars, and the .76 came in the high-performance cars.

I have plenty of each on hand, some out of 1st design and some out of 2nd design. Trust me, you can't tell which design of trans you have by the 5th gear ratio.

 

SO you're saying the .63 only came in the LG4 / LO3 cars?

That's weird the WC T-5 I have sitting in my shop came out of a 305 TPI '92 Z Ragtop and it's .63....


Fluke?

 

OK, then what I mean is I have the WC version that has the .74 5th gear and not the standard .63. My guess is that only the G92 (or R6P Performance Package if you have an 89-92 Firebird) 5 speed cars have the .74 version. It was my understanding that the .63 gear indicated the weaker trans.

I'm not saying you can visually look at the gears and tell the difference. I'm saying that the difference in the ratios is accounting for my lower rpm when cruising at 60mph in 5th. And of course there is a difference between the two.

These ratio figures come right from the MVMA spec sheet that I ordered from Pontiac for the 1990 model year.

Hence my aggravation.

 

It's more likely one of the speedo gears in the 'new' trans is not the correct one for the rear gear/tire size.
Also, didn't the phase II T5's have a long tube from the breather instead of a short one about 1½"?

 

That's what you said earlier; and it's wrong.

Progressively fewer and fewer cars seemed to get the .76 (not .74) ratio over the years. My 83 HO car (obviously a 1st design) had it; a couple of other 1st design ones that I got had it, as well as a few having the .63. Nearly all of the 2nd design ones that I've seen got the .63. The one I was last using was out of a 91 1LE car, and it of course had the .76 ratio.

The 5th gear ratio has nothing whatsoever to do with a "weaker" transmission. The 5th gears are of approximately equal strength, as far as I can tell. No other gears, besides the 2 halves of 5th (one assembled onto the back end of the countergear, and the other assembled onto the mainshaft) are different, between the 2 5th gear versions.

I have no particular knowledge of "spec sheets"; all I know, is what I find inside them when I open them up. This is also why I pay little or no attention to "codes" on tags or whatever, but rather look at the actual parts.

All 90 T-5s were the 2nd design. The last year of the 1st design in these cars (whether TPI or not) was either 86 or 87.

Yes, the 2nd design T-5s usually came equipped with the longer went tube; but they interchange directly into the case. You can put the short vent on a 2nd design trans, and the long one on a 1st design. So it's not an infallible indicator of which trans design it is.

Look at the pics I posted. That difference, is an absolutely infallible indicator. You can't put the one bearing into the other case, so identifying by the bearing is absolutely certain proof.

 

Well whether its .74 or .76 isn't really the focus of what I'm saying. I'm just telling you what I read in the MVMA spec sheets which is way more accurate than a brochure or any sales literature. Maybe its a typo.

I'm also not implying that the strength of the trans is determined by the 5th gear, I was just explaining that as being an indicator of which trans I have.

I've always assumed I had the same WC T5 that was in the 1LE cars and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that all 88 G92 5spd were of this type. The difference is not only 5th gear, but also 1st gear and the torque rating..270 vs 305.(vs. 240 for the 1st series T5's)

I'll check it like you say, but if theres 2 versions of the 2nd series trans, how will that help?

The simple fact is before the rebuild, 60 mph= about 1900 rpm now it = 1750 rpm. Those numbers dont lie.

 

can you rebuild a wc with a non wc rebuild kit? i got a free trans from my wifes dad and he said it was out of a 89 and it was a wc. but does not have the flat "cap".....buttttt.... the casting looks like a wc. who ever rebuilt the thing screwed it all up...when i started to take it apart it had gear oil in it and a few other things did not look right.

keene

 

the rebuild kits are differant

 

I don't know what I can say further to get the point across.....

Screw what the tach reads. All it's telling you is what 5th gear is in the transmission. The 5th gear ratio DOES NOT tell you whether it's a 1st design trans or a 2nd design one. All it tells you is what 5th gear set somebody stuck in it. That means, you can't tell by your tach, whether it's a 1st design or a 2nd design. It's not 2 "versions" of the transmission, it's 2 completely interchangeable gear sets. So, forget all this about what your tach says, it won't tell you what you're trying to find out.

If you don't like the 5th gear you now have, you can swap it out. Whether it's a 1st design transmission or a 2nd desing one. But if they took out a 2nd design one and put back in a 1st design one, I'd make them take that back out, and put the right trans back in. Go look at the countergear bearing and find out which version of transmission (which is not the same thing as which 5th gearset) you now have.

You cannot rebuild a 1st design trans with 2nd design parts, or vice-versa. The 1st design straight-roller bearings will not install into the 2nd design case's holes for tapered rollers; or vice-versa. Ignore what the case "looks like". Look at the front countergear bearing. It goes with which design trans it is. It does not lie.

 

Why would somebody just "stick a different" 5th gear in the trans? Wouldnt the correct rebuild kit have the proper gears for my particular appliction?

And it makes no difference anyway. They didnt rebuild mine, they put a remanufactured trans in.(of course this isnt what they told me they were doing.) Thats why I'm so concerned about what version is in there. I just dont want the weaker trans.

The only reason the 5th gear thing is an isuue is because I know "from the factory" the weaker trans had the numerically lower 5th gear. And if they used the proper rebuild kit, that might be the one I have. And that has a higher chance of blowing with my engine.

I'm sure the end result of all this crap anyway is that I'm stuck.

 

dude, as rb said.... go look under the car at the bearing retainer. if i had a remanufactured World Class T5 i can put whatever 5th gear ratio i wanted in it, also if i had a non world class i could put whatever 5th gear ratio i want in it, they may have put in a world class t5 with a different 5th gear ratio in it, so go find out what bearing you have, come back and let us know, then we can go from there.

 

"From the factory" the weaker trans (and the stronger trans for that matter) could have the numerically lower fifth gear.

 

Gears don't come in rebuild kits. Not 5th, or any other.

The reason somebody would have stuck that gear set in there, is because they had it.

Please get this notion out of your head that the 5th gear ratio has something to do with the "weaker" trans. It doesn't. I don't know where you got that idea, or why it's so thoroughly stuck in your head; but it's WRONG. The better 5th gear (.76:1) came in plenty of the "weaker" version of the T-5, and the poorer version (.63:1) came in plenty of the "stronger" version. THERE IS NO CORRELATION OF 5TH GEAR RATIO WITH TRANSMISSION VERSION.

If you want to know which version of the transmission you have, go look at it, and quit arguing this stupidity about 5th gear. It's irrelevant. Go look at the countergear bearing. That is part of a rebuild kit, and only fits the one version of the transmission that it's for. Since it's impossible to use anything but "the proper rebuild kit" for a transmissnion, looking at that part will tell you what you want to know. Arguing about 5th gear (which is not part of the rebuild kit) will help you learn nothing. Turn your transmitter off and your receiver on, so information can get in.

 

yo, RB why dont you chill out. You're not the one that might possibly have the wrong trans in their car.

The only reason I even mentioned the 5th gear thing is BECAUSE THATS WHAT CLUED ME INTO SOMETHING BEING DIFFERENT.

I was under the impression that only the 1LE type WC T5's had the taller 5th to stay competitive in SCCA racing and I thought that was the trans I had. So maybe all T5's could have that gear..I wasnt sure..but I'll still reserve my opinion on that until I'm proven otherwise my someone with a little more tact.

jeez..go have a beer or go get laid or something

 

No, they both were available with both 5th gear ratios.

No, you cannot put nonWC guts in a WC case. It is externally discernible.

 

No, that ratio was available with TPI. You'll be told otherwise by various people but whatever.

 

gears are not part of a rebuild kit. If they have a "different" 5th gearset on the shelf and yours was broken, they'll use it. They don't care if your car is "original," just that it goes out the door and doesn't come back and they get paid.

Or, they could have grabbed the wrong parts by chance.


you're off base there, amigo.

 

I never noticed the difference.