I was thinking of changing my 86 Berlinetta to Mechanical linkage and ditching the hydraluic stuff. Mine has a slow leak on the bleeder valve for the slave cyl that's just been a continual pain in the A$$.

Anyone have photos of there cars with Mech linkage? I know how most of it goes together, I'd just like to see what I might be dealing with in terms of clearence with my headers and exhaust.

 

I pulled a mechanical linkage setup off an early thirdgen at the junkyard not long ago that had headers on it. They looked like the cheapie Flowtech headers, and the bellcrank, or Z-bar, ran completely behind the last header tube, so it didn't interfere with the headers at all. That may not be the case with different brands of headers though. It might interfere with other styles. You might want to just replace your leaky slave cylinder and stick with the hydraulic linkage. There was a post on here not long ago about hydraulic vs. mechanical, and most guys that have tried both said they hated the mechanical style. Apparently, it's quite prone to breakage from what they said. I have mechanical clutch linkage on my 69 Camaro, and it works just fine, but I guess it's a stronger design than the thirdgen mechanical linkage is.

 

I took the mechanical linkage off my 83 back in about 86 or so, and put the hydraulic on it.

Trust me, you don't want to go the other way. Whatever problems you think the hydraulics are causing, are NOTHING compared to the crappiness of linkage clutches in general, and the system that came in these cars in particular.

Just go to the dealer and buy the ENTIRE hydraulic setup, pre-bled and everything. It'll cost the same, or less, than coming up with all of the stuff you'll need to downgrade to that old crap; linkage, different bell housing, different pedals, etc. etc. etc. And, it'll work A WHOLE LOT BETTER than the linkage EVER will, and require A WHOLE LOT LESS work on your part.

 

Noted.

I'll see what I can do about re-tapping my slave cyl to accept a larger bleeder (I'll probably use one like a brake bleeder valve). If that won't work, I'm sure I can find a hydraulic setup out of a Junkyard car. We have scores of em around here.

 

Heh, I knew Sofa would give you his input regarding mechanical linkage once he came across this thread. If you don't feel like spending a ton of money to fix it, you always just grab the slave cylinder from a junkyard. They're a piece of cake to change and bleed. All you have to do is tap out the little roll pin to remove the line. You also might want to soak the bleeder valve on the replacement one in PB Blaster or some other penetrating oil for a day or two before trying to loosen it up. I don't think I'd mess with trying to tap out your original one. It's really easy to find another one. I've probably got about 2 or 3 extra ones I've snagged from the yards.

 

I agree with Sofa. The third gen mechanical linkage is garbage. I had it on my 82 and converted to a HYD TO bearing. I HATED my stock set up. It broke 5 times in less then 8k miles with a mild aftermarket pressure plate.

Now Pat was talking about the mechanical linkage on first gen & second as well. They work great and are brutis beefcake. Who knows what the engineers were smoking in 82 & 83. Obviously they ran out of it in 83 because in 84 they fixed the problem.

 

I'm still running my mech linkage. It hasn't broken (stock clutch though), but it seems hard to shift when I wind up the motor sometimes. I may have some pictures, but it doesn't look like it's an issue for you now.
Header clearance was not a problem at all. Well, actually when I let the pedal out, the excess threads rest on the collector. I think that's because I lengthened the threaded adjustment rod because it was at the end of the threads and I needed it out further. (Well, that's what I thought I needed... I was wrong, but it's 1/2" longer now so...)

Sofa - you got a part#, or anything for that kit? I'm going to make up a list for what i'll need, and once I re-insure my beast i'll go shopping...

 

Hey Sonix, is your shifter mounted to the tailshaft of the trans or is it mounted to the crossmember? When they're mounted to the crossmember it definitely makes it harder to shift when the motor's wound up because it puts the shifter linkage rods on a bind. A lot of the old Chevelles and lots of other Chevys with the Saginaw 4 speed had the crossmember mounted shifter, and it sucked. When it's mounted to the tailshaft of the transmission, the shifter stays in line with the motor and trans no matter how much they flex. Or are you talking about the clutch pedal being hard to push in? That would make sense because the bellcrank would get bound up when the motor twists.

 

yea, it's mounted to the tailshaft.
Nah, when i'm winding it up, sometimes it's hard to push it into gear. It feels like i'm pushing the clutch in too far, sometimes when I ease it out a tad, it slips in easier. That's why i'm leaning towards the hydraulic, so it's a little more consistent. And my left leg won't be as tired. I'll probably miss being able to "feel" the clutch though.

 

Still using the original mechanical linkage on mine. I've had no probs with hard shifting, but it's been broken and re-welded before I got the car. No plans to get rid of it unless it starts givng me probs, then I might.

-But if I already had a hydraulic clutch, I wouldn't switch back to a mechanical linkage. I have better things to spend $$ on - like valve guides and seals maybe......

 

I am a fan of the mechanical linkage myself.Never had a problem in 11 years with the car.A few years back I made new pushrods out of tubular bar stock with spherical rod ends and gussetted the z bar.I even kept it when I swapped over to my current T56.Not a fan of hydraulics myself.

Added a pic of the linkage I had made to replace the stock push rods.

 

Well, I got all the Mechanical stuff (petals, Z bar, stud, brackets, etc..) for basically nothing. Guy who gave me the stuff only wanted my Hyd bellhousing for his wife's firebird. He has Mechanical on his Camaro and I've driven it, I like the feel, but it sounds like its strength is hit or miss.

I ground down and re-welded both the ears of the Z bar at School, doing two overlapping passes all around on each ear. Hopefully that will hold against my heavy left foot. I have a basically stock Press Plate and clutch but as soon as this one goes its getting a Centerforce DF and new TOB after.

If I decide I dont like it, I'll change it back. I have until the end of March to figure it out.

 

Hey, good score on the mechanical stuff! As hard as it is to come by the mechanical style, you didn't do bad getting all of it just for trading a bellhousing. One Bad 82's setup looks pretty stout. I guess if you're willing to take the time to custom fab some pieces like that, it'd hold up great. Nice job on the linkage rods. I've yet to put the manual trans in my 89 yet, and I've got both styles of linkage, bellhousing, etc. I don't dare sell either setup until I try out the hydraulic first to see if I'm happy with it or not. I have mechanical style in my 69 Camaro, but the only car I've tried hydraulic with so far was an old 80 Toyota Corolla I had years ago. If I do end up going with the mechanical, I'll probably at least gusset the z-bar before putting it in. The long upper pushrod doesn't look like it'd have any problems, and the lower pushrod would be a piece of cake to fabricate if you needed a heavier one. I remember a buddy of mine used to slam the clutch pedal so hard in his 69 Camaro, he actually snapped the pivot ball off flush in the engine block once. Of course he had legs like tree trunks too. Lol.

 

id never go to hydralic, it feels way too much like pushing a gas pedal, i like the old school tractor feeling when pushing it, plus theres no garbage lines or crap resovior on the firewall, and you can adjust it to your feel, cant do that with hydra. Im glad i have 83, mech clutch and first year of the 5 speed, best combo there is for the 80s.

 

Lol, I know all about that old school tractor feeling. I ran a 3 finger borg and beck style clutch in my 69 for a while. After a couple of passes up and down the boulevard with lots of traffic lights, your left leg would be quivering and spasming from pushing in the clutch so much. I'm using a Ram Powergrip diaphragm style pressure plate now, and it's a lot more liveable.

 

Not a single problem with any of it in 7 years now. Thanks for the compliment.

Although the pedal is firm and if caught in alot of traffic I get the "left leg would be quivering and spasming from pushing in the clutch so much" it really isn't that bad with the centerforce DF.

The mechanical vs hydraulic debate goes either way depending on opinion. I myself prefer mechanical anyday!

 

does anybody have a bellcrank / z bar for sale? Thanks!

 

My car has the same ****. I hate the mechanical linkage. I've been having clutch problems over and over. My z bar bends like butter. I want to change to a hydrolic set up. How would I go about it?

 

You'll need a bell housing, fork, the complete pedal set, and the hydraulics. This can come out of any V8 Camaro or Firebird from 84 to 92. You'll have to enlarge the hole in your firewall where the linkage goes through, just a little bit; and drill 2 holes for the little U-bolt hardware thing that holds in the master cyl. The master cyl has a gasket you can use as a template. When you scab all of it out of a donor car, don't forget to get the 2 little braces that go from the pedal pivot bolt, down to the master cyl; they're CRITICAL. You can get a complete brand-new, pre-filled and pre-bled, hydraulic assembly, at GM, if you want; rather than re-using old junk. They're pretty cheap, about $100-120.

It's a super-easy swap, actually.

 

I have both. My 82 still has the mechanical and my 00 has the hyd. For daily driving it's better to have the mechanical. Leg doesn't get tired as much. I have a hays street/strip combo clutch/pressure plate on my 82 and it's a little stiff. But when racing my 00 after a few passes the clutch pedal gets real mushy and soft. Not a fan of that. Also with the mechanical you can really feel the clutch engaging. And you can adjust it so you have better engagement. I think if I was in your situation i would go with the mechanical.