ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Allright guys, i am a budget rodder to the fullest, i picked this rear up for 400$. I thought it was worth it, that you guys think? I need to know a few things.

1) What disc brake system do i/can i use for this thing.

2) Where can i buy an axle for it.

3) How hard is it to set the ring and pinion up on it?

The guy i got it from bent a axle, no biggy. He tore into the chunk and messed up the spacing so i need to know if i can do it myself. He also loosened the ring gear bolts for some reason, what torque specs? Is this a awesome find or did i kina break even? I know it is a 8.5 which is way better than the old 7.5. It has a 3.55 gear and i want it in my car to replace the 2.73 asap. It spins both axles at the same time, but i cannot see any clutches so i thought that was wierd, it is not welded. Is there a different system i am not aware of? It is not a torrinson setup or whatever ither. It liiks like a open 10 bolt but it is not welded ither.


Thanks for any help/suggestions guy.

Zane

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Wow! That's an awesome find dude. Those are rare as hell. I don't think you did bad at all pricewise. Is there an "S" shaped spring in the middle of the spider gears? A lot of the 8.5 rears came with a posi that used a spring like that to keep tension on the clutch packs. You see those all the time in the 2nd gen rears when they got posi. As far as getting an axle, you might have to get one custom made from Moser since production was so low on those particular rears. I could be wrong though. On the brakes, those brackets look like the 88-down, Saginaw cast iron rear disc that came on our cars. It might not be a bad idea to see if you could get the 89-up PBR aluminum calipers to bolt up, since they work tons better than the old design. As far as setting up the ring/pinion, it shouldn't be much different or more difficult than any other 10 bolt. The Dana 44 is a very common rear overall, just not for the f-body. The vettes used them throughout the 70's and most of the 80's. They were also used in the full size Blazers, and some of the Jeep Cherokees, so parts are very easy to get, with the possible exception of the axles. 3.55 is a common ratio for those that would work great in your car. I think you'll be well satisfied with that rear once you get it back up to snuff!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

That is the thing, there is not S spring, it looks open, but it is posi but not welded. Might be different i guess. What do i have to do to get the 89 up rear brakes to work? I am also guessing it will be a long time before i am making enough power to break this thing...compaired to a 7.5 anyways.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Since I've never even seen a thirdgen Dana 44 in person before, it's kinda hard to say. But at a guess, I'm betting the only issue might be the bolt hole spacing on the outer axle flanges where the caliper backing plates, or mounting brackets attach, and my guess would be that the holes are either the same as the 10 bolt or the 9 bolt. It's probably just a matter of figuring out which. Even then, you can elongate the holes enough to get the 10 bolt plates to work on a 9 bolt, and vise-versa. I helped a buddy of mine modify his 10 bolt plates so that they fit the 9 bolt rear he put in. Wasn't hard at all. For that matter, if you wanted to fabricate brand new mounting plates, EB Miller could do it for you easily. He's a fixture on the brake forum here, and he makes adapter brackets for the C5 and C6 corvette brakes to use on thirdgens. You could always just run the 88 style calipers, but personally, I'd go with the PBR's if possible.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I wanna go the cheapest route possible, what are the draw backs to using the 88-down brakes? I wonder if V6 brakes will work off a 93+ f car?

JERRYWHO

I have a set of factory 89-92 backing plates for a Dana and a axle for one. Do you need the driver or pass side axle.

If your Dana has the factory trac-loc posi it's a 2 pinoin that looks like a open diff. The clutch plates and spring (A big cone shaped washer) is on the outside of the side gears in the case.

Assembly Specifications:

Cover Bolt Ft. Lbs. 30-40
Pinion Brg. Preload In. Lbs 20-40
Pinion Nut Ft. Lbs. 200-220
Ring Gear Backlash .005-.008
Ring Gear Bolt to case Ft. Lbs. 45-60
Side Brg. Caps Ft. Lbs. 70-90


I hope this helps
Jerry

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

It is a passenger side i need,

*gay* i just looked and it is a 3.31 gear, better than a 2.73 though.

Yea, helps allot, is there a difference between a driver side and pass side axle? WIERD I wanna get a deeper gear too, i want a 3.73 or so.

LMK Jerry, thanks.

Zane

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

OK, i guess it doesnt matter if i wanna get the bearing pressed off and back on if i need to right? I guess that is it. LMK man.

JERRYWHO

The axle I have is for the driver side. The deepest you can go on that posi is 3.73 before you have to change the posi unit.

Jerry

P.S. I have a set of very low mileage 3.73s for sale.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

OK, so i can swap the brake mount out on the axle right? How much you want for the gear set, it is what im looking for, and how much for the axle if i can make it work? Will all gears work for any dana 44 as long as it is a 2.73-3.73?

Apeiron

The axle flanges on the Dana are the same as a 10 bolt, so you can use any backing plates and brakes that will fit a 10 bolt.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What was a Dana44 in ?

Crap, I toyed with these cars for 10 years and never knew there was a d44 option.

-- Joe

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I've seen them in TTA and Firehawk cars...

Apeiron

Nothing from the factory. It was available in the GM Performance Parts catalog for a while.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Are you sure that they didn't come stock in the 89 Turbo Trans Am?

I don't honestly know, but that's what I had thought they came with...

TransAM Joe

iTrader: (6)

Dana 44 was used as a warranty replacement for troublesome 9 and 10 bolt rears, but can't be many running around.

Julie Bergman

I had one I obtained from someone who ordered it brand new as a GM special parts order back when you could get them new. Put it in my '84 Trans-Am CMC road race car. I finally settled on a Detroit Locker and 3.73ish gears. It came with 3.90s, got rid of them- tried 3.54s, did not like them with my carb 305. Stock posi was not that good, went to a True trac, did not like it. I did find out there is a special race biased True trac, I certainly did not have one of those. Nice set-up, worth its weight in gold. Wish I had another!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, i am just as happy as can be to have a 8.5 going in soon with a better gear!

Apeiron

TTAs got the 9 bolt. The actual pace cars themselves may have had the Dana 44, but like the Firehawks, they're not factory cars.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Anyone know where i can get a axle for it for the pasenger side ?????

Shagwell

a 44 is deff a step up from the 7.5 10-bolts, but it is no stronger than a 8.5 10-bolt. The aftermarket options are still stonger, but that's a good find for the $ and will take quite a bit of abuse.
- If it doesn't have clutches and/or some sort of loading spring, then it's not a posi. It may have been sitting long enough that they spin together now, but spinning it with your hands vs powering it is a very different thing.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Think so? I'm not a huge dana fan, I was forced into it, but a lot of 4x4 guys (and GM at one point) feels the dana44 is tons stronger than a 8.5" 10 bolt..

-- Joe

Apeiron

They're somewhat similar. GM based the 8.5 10 bolt design on the Dana 44 originally.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Actually somone told me the clutch setup is on the sides, i looked. It is there, so yeo, it is posi. I am sure it is not as strong as a 12 bolt GM but i am sure it will handle olmost as much power.

Shagwell

I am a 4x4 guy, and stock for stock, maybe it's a hair better, but that comparison is sqewed because most guys are comparing a rear 10-bolt to a front 44. The rear axle still tends to have the most burden, and often they're comparing a gov locked 10-bolt to an open 44. The gov lock is proned to break on its own, and an open diff usually won't see both tires loaded hard enough to break. - The axles are about the same spline count and the ring gear is the same diameter, so other than alloy and machining differences(which stock may be slightly better for the 44), there is nothing to make one stronger than the other, and aftermarket axles/gears/carriers eliminate alloy/machining differences.

Dana 60's are another story.

A 44 is not on par w/ a 12-bolt. Possibly better alloy parts stock for stock, but smaller axles, smaller ring gear, smaller housing, smaller carrier, etc, etc.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

It is not a ton better to have a 12 bolt i dont think, due to being only slightly bigger. The 12 bolt is only 8.75 isnt it? That is not a HUGE difference. Now a 9 inch and of course a huge Dana 60, that is even bigger, so just step up to the 14 bolt GM......J/K.

2fast4u92z

Are you saying a 12bolt isn't much better than a 10bolt? If so you are crazy cuz my 12bolt DTS rear took 900rwhp with a manual trans! Now as for the 44 I would like to put one in my auto 500rwhp camaro rather than the 10bolt. So that the car looks original or at lets dealer option original. But would like to know what power the 44 can handle?

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Im not saying it isnt much better but it cannot handle gobs of more power, the 44 is a 10 bolt, the housing on the 12 bolt is the part that really helps. The 44 is 8.5 and the 12 bolt is 8.75. That is not much of a difference. I have seen 10 bolt 7.5 rears go 9s in the 1/4 built, so i can only imagine how well my new 44 will power. I have seen the gears sheer off a 12 bolt before just like anything else. I am just saying that it would be dumb for me to opt for a 12 bolt now that i have a direct bolt in 8.5 ring gear, supposedly Dana rears soak up less power too!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Right; the 44 is kind of midway between a 7½" 10-bolt and a 8½" 10-bolt. The 44 ring gear IIRC is about 8½".

The 44 is only marginally stronger than the 9-bolt, as far as raw breaking strength. And it's a C-clip type, where the 9-bolt is a bolt-in type.

So other than the "unusual" factor, I don't see it as any kind of a real big deal, one way or another.

Apeiron

There are no C-clips in a Dana 44.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Some do, some don't.

Foe example, from Randy's:

Dana Spicer D44 HD
Aluminum housing with 10 bolts on rear cover. Has c/clip axles with 30 splines and a 8.5" ring gear.

Dana Spicer D44
10 bolt cover with 8.5" ring gear. Found in both front and rear applications. Rear applications use a bolt in axle. Axles are 30 spline. Front applications came in both standard and reverse rotation.

For some reason I was thinking the version in these cars had C-clips... I could be wrong though. Been awhile since I've seen one.

JERRYWHO

Just keep telling yourself that and maybe, someday it will be true.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I started out reading this, and figured someone just bought a D44 out of a truck, then I get to the last picture, and ZOMG! Torque arm mount!

That rear was a steal, even if it does need some work. The flanges on the axle shaft ends are universal for the 10 bolt, so for the best brakes you can get a kit for an 93-02 Camaro from Wilwood/Baer/etc. I believe the Wilwood kit will tuck under IROC 16's.

Wilwood Brake Kit

And ebmiller88 makes a wilwood kit that's very similar for the front with some modded spindles.

Sweet find man, wish I could be that lucky.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Iunno Jerry....

I've got 2 of em sitting in my driveway right now. (not in thirdgens) There's nothing magical I can see about em.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I find that the D44 is stronger in what really matters. Aftermarket support. Which is the one of the two reasons I bought a ten bolt to replace my 9. The other was for the PBR brakes.

Apeiron

Aftermarket support is probably the biggest reason to choose a Dana 44 over a 9 bolt if you had them both sitting right in front of you and it was only a matter of which one you wanted to use. Otherwise, I wouldn't go out of my way to use either.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I'd have to agree with that.... kind of like the Frod 9"; an actual Frod 9" isn't what's so great, it's all that OTHER stuff you can get that has the same bolt pattern.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

And going back to a little of the earlier discussion, I think the 44 and an 8.5 ten bolt are pretty near interchangeable. As a veteran 4 wheeler, they both pretty well have the same threshold of breaking. The aftermarket support is there for either one.

I think anyone here would agree that if any of our cars had come factory with a ten bolt 8.5, we all would be on the lookout. The Dana 44 is in that same category. It's not the best out there, but it's the best bolt in wrecking yard find that you can get. If you can swap meet or junkyard one it should be grabbed even if you don't want it. It WILL sell for more than the junkyard charged you, most likely. As long as the housing is good, everything else is pretty reasonably priced to get it together.

As for the 12 bolt, I think the thickness of the pinion has a great deal to do with it's strength over the slightly smaller ring gear of the 8.5. That's why the car 12 bolt is the one you want, not the truck model. The truck pinion is very near to the 8.5 piece.

I still think the S60 housing is the best place to start.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I scored big, so im happy.

northeaster79

the borg 9 bolts have bolt in axles?how hard are they to put in a 10 bolt,drum car?I have yet to see a dan 44 rear that didn't have c-clips.there a fairly strong rear with lots of aftermarket goodies available to make them stronger.the gm 8.5 10 bolt is almost as strong as a 12 bolt if you put a girdled rear cover.friend has an 80 malibu with a grand national 8.5 and 540 cube bbc running 10.50's on a 9.5 slick and it hasn't broken as much as a wheel stud in 4 years.

Julie Bergman

Axles on the 44s are weak at the flange; best to replace them with some quality aftermarket units. I had a failure at 100mph in my 3rd gen road race car with the stock axles, the whole wheel came off, brakes and all, I was lucky I was not hurt seriously. It was enough to put some good waves in the floorpan even with me not impacting anything when I coasted to a stop. Inspecting the other side that axle was ready to go also. Whew!

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

so... for the price build the 9bolt (since the dana 44 is too hard to come by when it holds X more than a 9 bolt anyway?) or get a bolt in f-body 12bolt and never look back?


the only thing I find odd about this is why would GMPP sell a dana 44 rear and not sell it with performance parts??? 90% of what they sell is the higher end stuff with the GM logo on it at 5 times the price jegs or summit would sell it.

not bashing I just find the dana 44 hard to swallow as being so weak. looks like a 12 bolt is what I will get if my rebuilt 9 bolt ever dies

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, the housing of a 12 bolt is what is stronger mainly than my 44. But, i really dont think 99% of the folks on here would need a 12 bolt power wise. The 1% that do are making rediculous power usually, but there is no common happy meduim like my 44. I got lucky, if theese were more common, most would opt for this unit than a 12 bolt due to being stronger than a 10 bolt GM and cheaper than a 12 bolt.

esc

iTrader: (6)

Just to throw in my

I bought my Dane 44 from A.J. Foyt Chevrolet, over the parts counter in 1987 or 88. It has been on my car for 20 years. I have had about 7 different motors in that time, none less than about 300 RWHP, up to about 500RWHP, and often 1-200 HP of N2O on top of that. I generally run DOT auto cross tires on the street, currently Kuhmo VictoRacer 275-40-17 (tread wear of 50), and ET Streets at the track (10.5x26x15).

In the 6 months before getting it, I wen t through 3 10 bolts. Primarily damage resulting from twisting the housing.

I figure I have more that 300,000 miles on it. I have never had to do anything to it (unless you count changing the oil). It has been the most trouble free part of my car since the day I installed it.

Now you may not think much of my anecdotal experience, and I don't have experience with 8.5" 10-bolts of 7.5" 9-bolts. But I am a firm believer in the Dana 44!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm. we will have to see how it handles a standard trans launch over and over on slick at Houston Raceway Park

Uglybronco

iTrader: (2)

Shoot, I think they're all weak, I can break anything. Go to my Myspace page & check out my Bronco sitting on 3 legs on sand I have also grenaded several rear 9" inch housings in that truck

www.myspace.com/uglybronco

esc

iTrader: (6)

I expect it will take more punishment that a T5 can dish out.

2fast4u92z

That is cuz you aren't running the heavy duty stuff. What type of 9" are they and what support did you add? I am planning on building my Rock crawler project started by summer. I was thinking Dana60 shaved. I want 4wheel steer and a single pinion disc brake. I orderd a chassis but damn these are alot of cash (50K) so it is going to be a 2.5 yr project.

I have a buddy with a Dodge truck all built up and he does these pulls. They put a strap on both trucks and see who pulls who. They rip whole rear end out of trucks! It is awsome. but be hasn't broken a 60 yet.

Uglybronco

iTrader: (2)

Wow, now we're WAY off topic now but oh well... its all fun...

Well lets see, I have not had a factory made axle shaft or gear set in the front or rear since at least six years ago, & have broken both Dutchman & moser shafts. I have cracked two different 9" carriers and my last was a broken bearing cap that resulted in my SECOND broken ARB locker's housing. I also broke a Detroit apart in the 9" WAY back when I had the stock 28 spl. axles.

I am now on my 3rd housing & have in it a Nodular iron case with Billet bearing caps... I haven't managed to break that one... YET...

& of course in the front end I have grenaded several U-joints with resulting axle shaft death. (But that's really expected with my front wheels up driving style.) I also upgraded the front shafts to Warn axles which held up to almost everything I threw at them... Just don't EVER use any U-joints from a parts store other than Spicers because it only takes a couple hours and ONE sand hill to make a CHEAP WORTHLESS JUNK @$$ O'Reilly U-joint grenade taking over two hundred dollars worth of Warn axle with it.

On the other side I destroyed the outer shaft when the spindle bolts ripped out of the steering knuckle though the inner Warn shaft survived...

Oh another fun thing... having a tranny lock up into 2nd gear while cruising 75 & causing the RPMs to go to unimaginable numbers & having the wheel studs break off & watching my tire go into the lane next to me then to the ditch... all fun stuff...

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

This will be of course with a T56, the T5 is not going to handle 1 good launch with the Dana, i do not feel lucky