Which is better? As far as ease of installation and setup, clutch pedal feel, maintainence, and finding parts? Im planning on intstalling a manual into a automatic car and Im leaning towards the mechanical setup because I think I can get out cheaper with that route, but if it's not worth it I will stick with hydraulic.

Since most of the thirdgen manual cars came with hydraulic clutches, will finding mechanical linkage parts be hard, or can I just use hydraulic pedals in a mechanical setup and find a generic mechanical linkage from an earlier generation fbody(or any other Chevy for that matter)?

 

Get the hydraulic. It really isn't that expensive. It actually may be cheaper and it's definitely easier. Get pedals out of a 84 or newer camaro or firebird(yes, even fourth gen) and get the right hydraulics for about 100-125$ and you'll be set.

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88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

 

Maybe I should have been more clear on my intentions. Im planning on going with a T56. I found a tech posting of a guy with a second gen that installed one using a mechanical linkage and saved big bucks because he didn't have to buy special flywheel, hydraulics, special clutch, etc. So what Im asking is how big of a deal is it installing a mechanical linkage in a third gen, and do they have a different feel than hydraulic clutches. I don't know how they feel because all the ones I have owned have been hydraulic. Finally, is it hard to adjust them and do they have to be adjusted often?

Thanks
Vic

 

Are you putting the t56 in a thirdgen? If so then the flywheel and everything else doesn't matter. You're gonna have to use a LT1 style flywheel and clutch uless you use the aftermarket t56(aftermarket hooks up to the t5 bellhousing, which has to be hydraulic). If you use a mechanical linkage on a t56 you have to get quite a few extra parts because the t56 was designed to be used with a hydraulic system. It's backwards as compared to a mechanical system because the hydraulics push while mechanical likanges pull. If you get a T56 for around 1300-1500$ you'll probrably get the bellhousing, flywheel, clutch, and master/slave anyways, so all you ned is the pedals. It's gonna be much harder to find a mechanical setup bcause they were only used in 82 and 83(for thirdgens) while the hydraulic setup is used from around 85 through the fourthgens.

Hydraulic requires no adjustment and is much easier to set up. You just bolt the master to the pedals and the slave to the trans. Plus the trans is designed to accept the hydraulics. Trust me, go with the hydraulic. It's just as cheap.

The hydraulic pedals will not work with a mechanical setup. Sorry, I just don't understand why you are worried about a mechanical setup. Just get pedals, the trans, master/slave cylinder, and clutch and you're pretty much set. Most of the time you can get them all together as a package from a salvage yard for about 1300-1500$.

------------------
88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

[This message has been edited by Birmass (edited March 05, 2001).]

 

I read that article. It isn't actually that hard to do. The reason why he kept mech. linkage is because his 2nd gen came like that. He adapted the t56 to his 2nd gen bellhousing. The t56 is not a performance piece, unless you keep the T-5 bellhousing/lakewood. The flywheel is very heavy, most aftermarket clutches have release problems, and pull off style are just generally crap. Anyhow, back to the original post....

Hyd. set-ups are much better. It's one of those things that are clearly better, like hyd brakes over manual brakes, forged over cast, HEI over points. Not much to argue. I'm not positive how you can go about doing a T-56 swap easily. I've seen adapter plates to fit it to the T5 bellhousing. I believe you just put this on, and then you're set. Now, aftermarket t56s will need a shortened driveshaft, because they also change the tailshaft. Because of transmission design, wether you use a t56 bellhousing or a t5 bellhousing your inputshaft will have to maintain the same relationship to the pilot bushing and thus the shifter and driveshaft will remain the same (I.E. aslong as you can manipulate your t-5 bellhousing to match the length of the t-56 one you're good to go). Also, I brought up lakewood bellhousings, they would a good idea for a performance t-56 swap so that you could put in a 14" flywheel. With the adapted t56, you could keep your clutch, flywheel, bellhousing, and hydraluics. You will still need to manufacture the crossmember though.

Edit: Forgot to mention that they change the tailshaft to accomodate a mechanical speedo. How ever with some ingeniuty you can overcome this.

------------------
1984 WS6 Trans Am Hartop
Former L69 Car under restoration
1984 Trans Am T-tops
4-bolt main 350, performer intake, headers, Holley 650, T-5, hayes clutch, dual elec. fans and 3.23's.
Daily driver and restoration
13.98 @ 101

[This message has been edited by 84FTA (edited March 05, 2001).]

 

Price wise, I would go with a T56 out of a 4th gen because I think it's just easier and cheaper. I got the trans, LT1 flywheel, clutch, bellhousing, and trans for 1500$. The slave/master cylinder was 125$ from the dealer pre-bled, I got a custom trans crossmember made at the local welding shop for only $20(just take your original and move the center back the required amount), and the pedals were from a 94 5 speed camaro. I didn't have to shorten the driveshaft or torque arm, it's stronger than the aftermarket version, and the shifter fits perfectly in my console. Total, I spent about $1700. Aftermarket is gonna run you atleast $2500!!

------------------
88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

 

Alright guys thanks for the replies, they are really making me want to use a hydraulic linkage now, but let me explain my reasoning for thinking about using a mechanical linkage. First off, I have a two-piece rear main seal block which requires the use of an aftermarket flywheel when using a t56. I don't know the exact price, but I think I recall seeing them in the $350 to $400 range. Second, I plan on putting out mucho torque, hopefully more torque than the stock clutch can take (If not I still want an aftermarket clutch and pressure plate for peace of mind). I think a good aftermarket t56 clutch goes for about $400 to $550. Right off the bat that's about $900 in addition to the $900-$1500 that I will pay for a used T56. That comes up to at least $1900 not counting all the little costs that is always associated with projects like this.

Now if I go the same route that Jeep43 went in this post: www.nastyz28.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000069.html ,then I can use a standard sized aftermarket clutch and throwout bearing. A really good clutch/pressure plate combo can be had for under $300, and I think the throwout bearing usually is included. I can also use a standard flywheel (which will come in handy if I ever decide to stroke my engine later down the road). I can get one for $15 from my friend.

Like I said, reading your posts makes me want to go with the hydro setup, but you have to understand I am a tightwad and if there is a cheaper way I will usually try it first. It makes me feel like Im beating the system. Just please follow the above link and read his thread and then tell me what you think.

Anoter thought I had was wheter or not a mechanical linkage can be converted to hydraulics. If that is possible then I could go the same route as Jeep 43, but I could substitute a t5 hydo setup in the mechanical linkage place. Tell me what you think.

Sorry if this all sounds stupid, but I have never really worked with manual transmissions before and dont fully understand how they work so please just bear with me.

Thanks

 

Well, lets see here. I'm wondering if you can do something like this...

- OEM T56 with bellhousing. Will bolt up fine to your block.

- Use the flywheel you can get from your freind with the right size clutch(10.5" 26 spline clutch and pressure plate with standard pilot bearing)

- couldn't you just use a standard throwout bearing and use the hydraulic setup and clutch fork?

The thing is the second gens came with mechanical setups and it's much easier to setup a linkage in a car that already has a mechanical setup. I would think that if you used the OEM t56 clutch fork and connected it to your clutch set that you could just use the ydraulics. What I'm saying is that what type the clutch and flywheel is should not matter as long as you can connect the t56 clutch fork to your throwout bearing. Then you just hook up the hydraulics as you normaly would. Plus, this way you wouldn't have to create a mechanical linkage in your thirdgen which is going to be much harder to find. I'm not positive about my idea, but it's worth investigating. I hope this makes sense! Feel free to ask more questions!!

------------------
88 firebird formula
350 Vortec TBI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
SIX-speed
open 3.73's
2 1/4 stock catback
I love pissing those LS1's off
My Formula

All your base are belong to us.

 

Performance and cost wise any reasonable attempt to keep the stock flywheel and pressure plate is good.

Even though he used manual linkage, 95% of the modification was for the different style clutch and modificiation for the clutch fork. The mounting of the hydraulics wouldn't be that hard. Once you got the clutch fork in, weld/secure the old T-5 bracket for the slave cylinder on and you're set.

I forgot about the bearing retainer ('sleeve') this also needs to be modified. Possibly you could make the T-5 one bolt up, I have not been into a T56 to know for sure. If it is truely larger then hopefull the inner bore would be larger than the one on the T56 which would make fabrication much much easier.

These basically leaves you two options for swapping in a T56 with original clutch/flywheel. Either modify the t56 bellhousing (may be wiser if you can fit a 14" flywheel in) or modify the t5 bellhousing's length.


------------------
1984 WS6 Trans Am Hartop
Former L69 Car under restoration
1984 Trans Am T-tops
4-bolt main 350, performer intake, headers, Holley 650, T-5, hayes clutch, dual elec. fans and 3.23's.
Daily driver and restoration
13.98 @ 101

[This message has been edited by 84FTA (edited March 06, 2001).]