383Bandit

Hey guys, i did my T56 swap a few months ago and always wanted to help you other guys out that want to do the swap. Most of all the info you need is in a few other threads out there on this site. If anyone requests it, I can write up a complete guide. For now though I just wanted to make note of 2 important things that I found out the hard way.

If you use the T56 from an LT1 based car, then of course you can reuse your stock torque arm and driveshaft. Make sure you have EVERYTHING before you start the swap... I could have been done within a few days if it wasn't for having to wait for parts slowly coming through the mail. When choosing your T56, you really should try to get a warranty. If your buying for a private seller try to drive the car (if its drivable, but that's rare). One other thing you can do is take it to someone that has a transmission testing machine. I forget what they are called, but I'm sure some places like AAMCO have them. We had the machines at Wyotech.

One of the things that really halted getting my car back on the road was the torque arm mount. I was swapping from a 700r4 to the t56 and for some reason thought the mounts were the same.. they aren't. You will need one from a T56 or a T5. They are the same. I used the T5 mount and its working fine. Make sure to use a new bushing, i recommend polyurethane!

One other thing that's not mentioned much is the console plate for the shifter. I realize most people will automatically think they need a T5 plate, but honestly the auto plate will work just as good, or IMHO better. The shifter itself will sit about 3" further back than a T5 would. The auto plate's opening sits a little further back than the T5 opening does, you can see for yourself. Ill post a link to some pics of the two plates so you can see. I took my plate and just cut the PRND21 symbol completely off so the square would be larger. After that you will have to find a way to make a shift boot work. I myself got my wife to make one out of black silk and I just glued the bottom opening to the square edges. Doesn't look too bad, but its only temporary.. I still haven't even got a lower shift boot! Make sure you do eventually get one... The heat and sound from the exhaust is crazy. The shifter will get very hot during a hot summer day.

Anyway, if you have any questions concerning the swap.. ask away. Ill get back to you as soon as I can. Here is the thread that has the pics:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/inte...-interior.html

Just scroll toward the bottom and the two pics are there.

duckmanquacker

I thought the t5 mount was the same as the 700r4? I'm using a t5 torque arm mount on my 84z with 700r4 since the original was beat by p/o not fixing trans mount.

383Bandit

Nope... my 700R4 mount had completely different mounting holes from the T5 mount.

Heres a link to another thread i just came across.. there seems to be alot of confusion over the mount, thats why I thought the auto mount would work, but it will NOT. If you scroll down and read ONLINE170's post he is saying the same thing from experience. Hes also made a very nice T56 guide:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...t-56-swap.html

Also if you go down to post #17, someone in the thread posted a side by side pic comparison of the two mounts. They are very different. I was under the car for an hour before trying to "make" the mount fit somehow before I just ordered a T5/T56 mount.

duckmanquacker

thanks for the reminder I just went digging thru my parts pile and low and behold there was the t-5 mount and old beatup 700. forgot I got anolther 700 mount.

383Bandit

No problem! Anyone else have any questions or advice that would help anyone out? The swap was very fun.. I was a little intimidated, but it was pretty easy in the end. Plus all your friends and random car lookers think your some kind of mad scientist master mechanic when you tell you swapped an auto to a manual transmission! Lol.

EDGE

I have a 1987 T/A 5.7. I have the option of getting a 1984 clutch pedal setup or a 1997 3.8L T/A setup. obviously the 1984 3rd gen one would be a direct bolt on. Will this work with a hydraulic clutch?

383Bandit

Yes it will. The third gen pedals work perfectly with the 4th gen hydraulics.

EDGE

Great I will order them up. Thanks

383Bandit

A word of advice, its easy to take most of the interior out to install the pedals. It is the hardest part of the swap. I went to a junkyard to get my pedals, im good with the owner so he gave them to me free IF I could get them out. I offered to just pay to take them out, but none of the workers would take them out for me because of how hard it is. They thought you had to take the dash out and etc... but you dont. Mine were a little rusty so i sanded them down and painted them with rustolem. You can get the original rubber pedal covers from autozone. They fit exactly.

adaylate88

This might be a dumb question, but I am new to the forum and it's the first one i'm asking. I have an 88' with a 305 and it's an auto, from what I have read so far I would like to put in a T56, but the keep the same motor (rebuild of coarse). Will this transmission work? Any tips on where to get a good tranny and pedals from? I won't be doing this real soon, but in the next couple of months and while it's in the body shop, so I want to know what I need and if it will work, thanks.

383Bandit

Ive never really messed with the 305's but im pretty certain it has the same bolt pattern as a 350 so yes it should mount right up. You can get a t56 and the pedals from a junkyard, but also check craigslist.. Honestly if your going to rebuild your 305, i would just sell it and buy a 350 and rebuild that. You would be spending the same and have a much capable engine and be able to use the t56 to its full potential.

Dont get me wrong, ive never fooled with the 305, but i cant really imagine a near stock 305 having much power. My 383 struggles with 6th gear itself doing ANYTHING less than 65. So I dont think you would get to use 6th much at all which would defeat the purpose. If your going to keep the 305 id recommened just install a t5. Much cheaper in the end and the 305 dosent really put out enough power to hurt the t5.

But this is all your decision! Let me know what you think you might do and ill give you more info from there. Im not putting the engine down so please dont take it that way, i just want you to make the best decision possible.

adaylate88

Oh no, trust me i would love to do an LS1 swap and call it a day, but I have this bug in me that wants to keep the car original and have it around for a while. Still trying to figure out if these will be worth anything one day, its not a 1LE or an original IROC which is what is going for the most $$$ right now, so I might change my mind. I'm shooting for a 300-350hp set up, which is possible with dif heads... My brain is torn right now on what to do.

383Bandit

With the 305 id say just go with the t5. MUCH cheaper and a bit easier. I hate automatics myself... thats why i swapped mine. Now you might look into a turbo setup with the t56. That may make it worthwhile.

Also if you swap the t5, if you dont like it, you can just upgrade to the t56 and not have to change anything but the hydraulics and the transmission itself. I guarantee the t5 will keep you satisfied. Honestly if the t5 would of withstood the power of my car, i would have just done that because it would have been alot cheaper.

EDGE

Just one more thing. Does it matter what set of 3rd gen pedals I get? Can it be from any 3rd Gen year? Is a particular year or set required for a Hydraulic clutch?

Thanks again

adaylate88

How much power do you think the T5 is good for? I see them a lot on ebay and what not, a lot are from V6 third gen's, is it the same tranny for a V8? Thanks for all of your help by the way.

EDGE

Wow am I confused. I posted a question in the tech boards asking if I'd notice a wallop in performance with the T56. The guys there said "Not really" or change the **** end to 4.11's to maybe notice anything. Other than that the only difference between the 700R4 and T56 is one you shift and one you don't.

Then you take the T5, and the 5.7 will blow it apart. How the hell are the Mustangs so powerful with the T5 yet our cars can't use a T5. What I'm getting at is this: I went for a ride in a 2002 Mustang GT 4.6L 5 speed. There's no way my GTA would be able to keep up with it. I know my 5.7 has the power but I can tell it's being held back. The third gear in that Mustang was ridiculous for pull. Thats something I've always missed when I sold my Fox Body years ago, and is something I was hoping to get back by swapping out to a manual shift.

I figured the 700R4 was using all the power up because #1 it's basically a big hydraulic pump that the engine has to power and #2 it has 207'000 Km's on it. So again, how can the T5 not handle 5.7's yet these Mustangs seem to reach orbit with them.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

If you are feeling heat come up into the cabin from the shifter/console area then you need to install the lower shift boot. That's actually what its there for. On T5 equipped cars it is also necessary to keep water from splashing up inside the console as the T5 itself is fairly small and doesn't block the shifter hole in the transmission tunnel completely. I had some nastiness under my console and around the boot due to my original boot being damaged. With the lower shift boot installed properly it won't feel any different than an automatic in regard to heat.

91350rs

iTrader: (2)

A sbc is a sbc. The parts are interchangalbe and have the same bolt pattern for the tranny. I would go with the t56, that way if someday you do up grade your motor then your tranny will be ready for it and when your cruising on the highway with your 305 your gas mileage should be pretty good.

built91Z28

I personally wouldnt worry about keeping it orignal for collector reasons. The 305 RS's are everywhere. Besides, its just a car. Make it what you want. As far as original cars and collectors go anyways, if its not 100% original, then its not original. So if you swap the trans and put heads on the 305, its no different than if you do the LS swap. My car is a real 91 Z L98 car and there is no one stock part in the entire drivetrain. I also plan on being buried in this car so resale means nothing to me

adaylate88

I really want to do an LS1 swap with T56 and different rear end, but also don't want this to be a several year project... the money isn't the issue, i'm ok with building a car for $10-$12k, i just want to enjoy it and not come home everyday to seeing it sit in my garage... thats gonna kill me

ls six

The mod motor Mustang GT's use the T45 trans not the T5, they do still use the T5 in V6 cars though. That wont be the case with the new 300HP V6 stangs in 2011. The 5.0 mustangs with T5s do often break them so it's not just us.

You are spot on about autos using more power than sticks, they are also heavier than most manuals, especialy 4 speeds and the T5. The T56 is heavier but still lighter than even a dry 700.

You would almost certainly notice a difference with a T56/T5 vs a 700, just from the weight reduction and lack of parasitic drag. Look at the original 5.0 and 5.7 TPI cars. The L98 only available with the 700 was typicaly matched by the 305 TPI/T5 cars for this reason. Auto vs auto the 5.7 won hands down but the 5.0 with a stick was a significantly faster car than the 5.0 with an auto.

A somewhat steeper rear ratio is not only possible with the T56 but something I would recomend, it would allow you to cruise in 6th at legal speeds without bogging the motor helplessly, however if the stock 9/10 bolt rear is being retained you should limmit your rear ratio to something more reasonable than a 4:xx since as you get into the steeper ratios the pinion becomes smaller and the entire rear gets weaker.

A ratio similar to what the T56 4th gens or T5 3rd/4th gens had is a good place to start, you can go a bit steeper but nothing drastic.

adaylate88

Well it looks the T5 is what I will probably do since I am going to rebuild the 305 motor and get it a little more power, but nothing too crazy. And the T5's are easier to find and install. I am not going to be doing any highway driving, just cruising around town and what not since it will not be a daily driver.

Are the T5's out of the V6 model's the same as the V8's T5's? if not then how do you tell them apart? And what kind of power can they hold? If this should go in a different thread i'm sorry, i just ask a lot of questions.

If you have any insight to 305 rebuilds let me know on my other thread... its been a little difficult...

ls six

You can use a V6 T5 with a few mods. I would still recomend finding a WC T5 regardless of your ultimate power goals, they are really the more common trans so theres no reason to settle for nwc.

Also only look at actual F body T5s as the issues adapting ford or truck trannies go beyond any reasonable scenario.

Dont bother with 4th gen F body T5s either as they use the ford bell to trans bolt pattern and will not fit any SBC bell.

So any late 3rd gen V6 T5 can be made to fit by using a V8 T5 bell (I see them on ebay for $25-$50) and by using a rather rare Chevy astrovan clutch disc that has the V6 T5 spline count and the V8 T5 friction disc. Any clutch manufacturer should be able to mate the V6 hub to the V8 disc anyway so you can still chose your preffered hub and disc design and material. Ofcourse anything more agressive than stock puts the trans at more risk. A stock V8 pressure plate is good enough, a stiffer one will ofcourse be harder on the trans.

The V6 trannies have a different ratio set than the V8 so there can be an issue of reduced strength and less than ideal performance.

adaylate88

Ok, so WC and NWC stand for? yes go ahead and laugh....

built91Z28

World Class and Non World Class.

adaylate88

And how will I be able to tell the difference between the two? Is the conversion Hawks sells a WC? Is it a good price at $1200?

ls six

There is a lot of info in the T5 sticky, way more than we could relate here but one simple way to id a WC trans id it's out of the car is to look inside the bellhousing at the bearing cup. WC cups will be reccessed in the center non WC cups will be smooth and flat.

I doubt any company would waste time selling NWC parts or trannies unless they simply came across a NWC and are trying to get rid of it. If in doubt... ask.

MParks

I have an 87 Iroc with a 305 TPI. I just bought a complete T56 swap for it out of a 96 Trans am.

With the 96 LT1 Flywheel bolt up to my 87 305? I want to make sure my motor is a 1pc rear main seal to make sure the flywheel bolts right up.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH

MParks

Im 19 and this is my first T56 swap cut me some slack. I searched but my question was not answered in any of the threads i looked at so im asking here. Thanks.

joey 350 LT4

hey quick and dum question do i need to take the shifter out when pulling the t56 out and if so where are all bolts in the console of a 91 bird at.. im going to rebuild it my self yet i ask such a lame question... thaks guys

houstonvett

iTrader: (2)

In the middle of the LT-1, T-56 swap into my 84 Camaro. I have mounted the clutch pedals from a 4th generation car into the 84. I cut off the accelerator pedal from the rest of the pedal setup.

My question is what is the slave cylinder stud size that gets mounted to the pedal setup thru the firewall? I have looked at the sticky thread with the T-56 info and pictures. The T-56 sticky is loaded with huge picture files that takes forever to download and doesn't contain the information that I need to drill the proper hole size. It would be a very usefull thread if the picture files weren't so large. TIA, houstonvett

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

i got one for ya...its a headache and a half here, i just dropped money on a t56 ive been trying to get my hands on for a long time. Thinking its an LT....its an LS, i know the Ls has a longer input shaft and ive got a seperate LT bellhousing with an LT style centerforce flywheel and clutch, wouldnt i be able to just swap out the input shaft for the LT one and be straight? i think i would but i always like a second and third and 20th opinion lol

houstonvett

iTrader: (2)

I'm 90% sure to use the LS-1 T-56s you will have to change the input shaft and a gear cluster also. I believe it is the 6th gear cluster that needs to be changed, if I remember right. The parts for the swap is about $450.00 when I last looked into the LS-1 tranny for use on my older 2 piece rear main seal engine going into a 84 Camaro. Easier to just get a LT-1 transmission IMO.

I see Speedway is carring the throw out bearing hoses allready made along with a Wildwood master cylinder for the T-56 swap into a 3rd generation car. Has any Forum member used these parts as I am ready to order up all of the clutch pieces needed for the swap.

built91Z28

It appears that as long as you use an input shaft for a 94-97 LT1 T56, it should work fine. The 93 T56 used a different first gear ratio.

However, the only other thing that may not work for you is that the LS T56 is not setup for a clutch fork. I'm not sure if you could use a LT bellhousing and LS hydraulic throwout bearing. The depth of the two bellhousing may be different (almost positive they are different). If this is the case, then you would need to go the route I had to take which is to leave the LS input shaft in and run an adapter plate with an aftermarket bellhousing. You could then run either a hydraulic throwout bearing (like I am) or you could use a regular T5 clutch setup and clutch fork if you get the right bellhousing. The only way around doing this is if you can find the mid plate off a LT T56.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

Jonothan Tick over on ls1 tech was offering me an input shaft and mid plate from his shop, he just wanted to do a trade, it shouldnt be too hard to swap it out, that would solve the clutch fork issue right? i would like to just say screw it and use an adapter plate but i dont have $500 to just toss away right now, i just got honorably discharged from the army and they decided it would be fun to deposit my last check then yank it back, now im injured with no job and a bust for a tranny setup whoooo lol if they ever get off their butts and get the VA to start paying me this thing would clip right along but this is our government, my experience is to hurry up and wait.

with that adapter plate though would i be able to just install the Ls trans with no issues? Like the driveshaft and hydraulics? also what kind of clutch would i need? an LS style or Gen 1 style?

built91Z28

If you can get the LT input (94-97) and the midplate, then that will work. Dont forget that there will be some tolerances that will need to be checked and more than lickely changed so make sure your ok with disassembling some of the trans and checking clearances.

If you use the adapter plate, you would also have to use an aftermarket bellhousing such as a Lakewood. This is the route I took as I used the trans out of a 03 Mustang Cobra. The adapter plate bolts to the midplate and the bellhousing bolts to it. This gives you several clutch setups you can run. I am running a hybrid setup myself. The simplest way would be to get the Lakewood bellhousing for a Camaro with a T5. This will let you use the stock T5 slave cylinder and clutch fork. You can also run a T5 flywheel and clutch setup. The Lakewood bellhousing does allow you to run the larger 168 tooth flexplate and the bigger clutches. This setup also pushes the trans back a little and I'm not sure how this effects things as the driveshaft and the trans bolting to the crossmember.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

Hmm I got a guy in tucson with an lt style trans for a good price, ill just check it out, sell this one and buy an lt to save me a lot of time and trouble I've already got a full setup for the lt and it seems getting the other trans would be the easiest route

built91Z28

That would defiently be the easiest way

IROCUDREW

iTrader: (6)

Quick question i brought everything for the t56 swap. i have both 4th gen and 3rd gen pedals. What pedals are better regarding to travels length and where the pedal is when the trans engages. For the 4th gen pedals i cut the whole accelerator bracket off of from the brake/clutch side? Any help would be great.

1981LT1

iTrader: (1)

I put the WC T-5 behind my 305 and beat it mercilessly. Then, I put the LT1 in front of it and beat it some more. When I started upgrading the LT1, I had a lot of people tell me the trans would never last. So I went with a built 700R4 and I hated it. Once you go to from an auto to a manual, you really miss shifting. So, I put a T56 behind the LT1 and it has lasted through many track beatings and street challenges. With that said, the T-5 if a great trans if you take care of it. Just remember, the HP is not what hurts the trans, it's the torque.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

What did you do about the gauges? I was looking at some glowshifts since they're cheap and the t56 doesn't use a cable (I know you can mod the tailshaft but I don't want to) it was my understanding that you wire the gauge to the vss but our vss is mounted on the original cluster and needs a cable to spin so it can judge the speed?

Is this right or am I making this more complicated than it is?

Cerridius

Whats the best rear end gears for a t56 transmission? I just bought one today for 800 and for the future swap im going to need to change my rear end because it has the 3.08 gears right now.

Bristol

iTrader: (1)

Ive got everything done but need to cut the auto shifter out and cut the floor. Im really nervous for the floor cut. Are there any measurments etc. that I can use as a reference to make sure I dont mess up lol.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Make a small hole. Use snips until it's big enough to remove or replace the shifter. The rubber insulating boot from a 4th gen would be a good template / installation piece for your swap. (3rd gen is same shape but the opening is round for a T5 shifter.)

Bristol

iTrader: (1)

Thats the thing....Ive got the tools to do it and was planning to use the boot as a template but I need to know where the hole starts. Is there an indentation on the yunnel to use as a starting point?

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Just make it smaller than what the boot would allow. The stock T5 opening has more than enough room to remove a T56 shifter.

Bristol

iTrader: (1)

Im going from auto so right now theere is no cut out. Im trying to figure out where to cut the forward edge then I can use the boot as a template like you suggested

383Bandit

Ive been gone for a while, but Im back. If anyone has an questions ask away!

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Just a note if you plan to swap to a t-56 from an lt-1 you can use a standard push clutch with a custom throwout bearing and scattershield from mccloud if anyone is interested I can post pics and possibly part numbers if I can find them.