A friend has offered me a t-56 with a b&m shifter,that has 75k on it for 700.

I figured this isnt a bad deal either and since my 5 speed is pretty much toast. I'm looking for an alternative
But from reading I haven't really found these answers.
Do I need the pedals from the 4th gen? Do I have to use the master cylinder (just replaced mine a month ago). I know the slave has to be used.
And if I can use my pedals is there a difference?

I have a list so far here and add or remove to assist me some.

Transmission
shift
slave cylinder
clutch kit
flywheel and bolts
custom cross member

is there more needed? I have read some on it but cant really find anything stating if you need the pedals and master.

 

there are 2 differences in the 4th gen hydraulic setup is the length. The flex hose is longer, the stroke of the master is different.

I think you need the extra length of the flex hose, and the lt1 setup has a braided line instead of the stock rubber one the 3rd gens have, so its a good upgrade.

The clutch pedal will engage high, So you will have to shorten the pushrod, usually its done by cutting and threading the pushrod and using a turnbuckle to adjust length.

4th gen pedals will bolt in, you can use the gas pedal. I think the brake pivot point is different, might have to modify that as well.

 

Stick with your 3rd gen pedals. If you read enough posts here you'll find guys that have had issues with the 4th gen pedals, even though they are almost a bolt in.

Use the entire 4th gen hydraulic assembly. If your used one is questionable they are about $90 brand new from GM and ready to bolt in. No bleeding needed, etc. Use your master cylinder mount and pushrod hardware and it will all bolt in like a factory install.

What year is your engine? 2 piece rear main motors need a custom flywheel. 1 piece can use a stock LT1 part.

You will need to fabricate/modify the exhaust hanger for the catalytic converter (no one ever mentions this). It's fairly easy if you can weld.

You need a 700R4 torque arm mount. I had one as I converted from an auto, but from what I've read the T5 mount doesn't work.

 

Stick with your 3rd gen pedals. If you read enough posts here you'll find guys that have had issues with the 4th gen pedals, even though they are almost a bolt in.

Use the entire 4th gen hydraulic assembly. If your used one is questionable they are about $90 brand new from GM and ready to bolt in. No bleeding needed, etc. Use your master cylinder mount and pushrod hardware and it will all bolt in like a factory install.

What year is your engine? 2 piece rear main motors need a custom flywheel. 1 piece can use a stock LT1 part.

You will need to fabricate/modify the exhaust hanger for the catalytic converter (no one ever mentions this). It's fairly easy if you can weld.

You need a 700R4 torque arm mount. I had one as I converted from an auto, but from what I've read the T5 mount doesn't work.

 

I have a 91 l98 so I would hope the motor is a one piece.

also Is this true needing the torque arm mount from an auto?

that was one thing I havent seen yet along with the cat mount. thank you

 

Im using 4th gen pedals.

Cut off the gas pedal, elogated the Top bolt hole, and enlarged the booster bolt holes. All can be done witha drill bit and a hack saw.

The pedal engages high? -----> matter of opinion. it will work just fine if you dont do anythiing to modify it.



Theres no brake pedal issues, theres no clutch engagement issues. 4th gen pedals work just fine with a 4th gen trans. There may be some issues with 3rd gen pedals on 4th gen trans though when the trans is disengaged. Some cases include the pedal pulling the clutch too far out.

You can use the flywheel and clucth from the LT1 car you get the trans out of. Its all 1-piece, no worries.

Your torque arm mount BUSHING will work from any car (auto, 5sp, or 6sp). But the torque arm mounts are different from auto, to T5 to T56. You will need a T56 mount.

 

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I bought a T5 TA mount for my T56 and it worked fine for me. Maybe it's a T56 mount though?

 

I reused the torque arm mount from my 700R4 and it bolted right up to the T56 with no problems. I have read posts from other members that swapped a T56 for a T5 and they claim that the torque arm mount from the T5 doesn't work. I can't say from personal experience, but that is the consensus on this forum.

If you already have 3rd gen pedals in the car there is no reason to change. I have yet to read a single post from anyone having a problem with 3rd gen pedals in a T56 swap, but there are several I've read about problems with the 4th gen pedals. Some say that they have no issues with the 4th gen pedals. I run 3rd gen pedals and know for a fact that they work perfectly. I would just stick with them.

 

Its my understanding that the only 4th gen pedal issues were when people did LS1 swaps because they use a different pedal setup as well as a different hydraulic setup.

For the OP, make sure you know what year the T56 is before you buy it. There are 3 different ones that came in 4th gens. There was the slightly weaker but better geared 93 only unit, the regular 93-97 one and then the 98-02. Make sure you know what you are getting.

 

Ok simply put what the easiest way to tell the difference? I know there's a push and pull t-56's. Is there some way to walk up look and instanly tell?

 

Yes, LT1 T56s have a clutch fork bolted to the back of the trans. LS1 T56s don't, they use a hydraulic throwout bearing and will heav two notches in the rear face of the trans for the lines to enter/exit.

The trick is determining what year the LT1 T56 is. The '93 is weak and should be avoided unless you get a screaming deal. They are only officially rated to 350 lbs/ft. due to the big first gear.

 

So I take it there isn't a simple way to tell if its a 93 is the maybe a indicating number that tells you what year it is

 

I had trouble reusing my 700R4 torque mount, but i had a T56 mount as well (LT1) so i just used that.

I have all three mounts at my freinds place, i could snap a pic of the three if interested?

I still maintain that theres no "PROBLEMS" with the 4th gen pedals. Its just people who dont like the high engagement point. Honestly i cant tell, its not that bad. Some people think it necessary to cut the rod up though and reweld it. To each their own. It doesnt change the condition whether the pedals are in a third gen OR in a 4th gen.

However, if you already have 3rd gen pedals go ahead and use them.

Ill try to find the thread that i read about the 3rd gen pedal issues. (ofcourse i only have experience with the Lt1 trans)....


Easy way to identify 93? or not?

Take a marker or something to mark with, draw a line at the 12 O'clock position on both the input shaft, and the tail shaft.

Put the transmission into 6th gear.

Turn the input shaft exactly ONCE.

For it to be a 94+ trans....
While you are turning the input shaft, when it reaches the 6 O'clock position the tainshaft should be at 12 O'clock, and when the input shaft reaches the 12 O'clock position, it will put tail shaft at 12 O'clock again. This is because 6th gear in 94+ trans was 0.50. This ratio was NOT available in 93. This means, for every 1 turn of the input shaft, the 6th gear turns the tail shaft EXACTLY twice.


If it does not go around EXACTLY twice then its a 93.
Its not a garbage trans, 350 ft lbs is still ALOT. You can get into low 12s with this trans before worrying about it breaking.

 

The other issue with the '93 trans is the wider ratios. The '94-ups have a better spread between the gears and the .50 6th pairs it up perfectly with 3.73 or 4.11 rear gears. Gears that steep on a '93 trans will make 1st gear feel like granny low in a truck trans. Like I said, if it's a screaming deal then I'd be willing to live with it, but if all things are equal I'll take a '94-'97.

 

How exactly did you manage that?


My T56


My 700r4 mount


T5 on left, 700r4 on right.

If you notice the mount on my T56 has the two lower bolts a good 4 inches or so apart and the 700r4's paired bolts are only about 2 inches apart. You can see where the casing on my T56 steps down a notch, and that's where the front through-bolt goes through the casing (you can see the nut on the other side barely)....

They seem to be different mounts to me... ? And so the T5 and T56 mount are the same, because I bought that mount as an 85-02 manual F-body TA mount. And that's what my bud is using for his T5 and his 700r4 mount doesnt fit his T5 either.

 

I was mistaken. I apparently got a T56 TA mount with the trans and forgot about it. MY old 700R4 one is sitting in the box with the rest of the automatic parts. I did my swap back in '03, so it's been a while.

 

hey man if you do some searching on here...they make an adapter plate that will allow you to bolt up a t-56 to a t-5 bellhouseingthen you can reuse all you stock clutch stuff...the only thing it requires is a longer pilot bearing, ya have to have you driveshaft shortened about 2" and take a little off you torque arm...there have been a few guys on here that have done this...this is what im gonna do also..http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata..._overview.html

 

If you add up the costs, they probably equal the same.

The reason this approach is not popular, is although you are reusing "all" of your stock T5 peices, the T56 and T5 are NOT the same length. This will set the T56 even further back, and there is no aftermarket cross member available for this method, because its so much easier to reuse the 4th gen stuff and buy an aftermarket X-member.

If you have the fabrication skills and tools, that method is probably cheaper, but for the average joe (like me) i preferred not to fabricate anything. However that approach IS popular with full frame cars. This is because you can just slide and existing cross member further back, and not have to deal with cutting, welding and ANGLES.

Just an opinion.

 

thats cool man....just thought id add my idea

 

This is incorrect. Both Spohn and SPD sell a "retrofit"/"aftermarket" T56 xmem, which has the correct dimensions for an LS1 T56 + Adaptor plate. The only difference between the LS1 T56 + Adaptor plate and the actual Tremec retrofit trans, is the shifter location is 2" back which requires a plate on the shifter handle, the need for the extended pilot bushing, and the lack of a mechanical speedo.

 

I still wouldn't go through the hassle. The LT1 T56 is as close to a bolt in as anything like this is ever going to be. Truthfully besides some wiring the only fab work I had to do was modifying an exhaust hanger for the cat. I did have to cut a hole for the shifter and for the clutch pushrod, but that was easy. I used ther firewall pad for the later, as it was pre-punched. For the shifter hole I installed the trans with tape over the shifter hole and made a couple of holes after measuring, trued them up with input from underneth and cut the hole. Even the stock console plate for a stick car works and looks factory. If it wasn't for my 6 speed shift **** no one would know.

On the other hand, if you were swapping from a T5 and already had a blowproof bellhousing, aftermarket flywheel, and a good clutch; it might make more sense to go the retrofit route rather than having to buy all new hardware, which would be pricey. The thing I really don't like about it is cutting the torque arm. I would have to use an aftermarket TA if I went this route just to feel 100% safe.

 

I don't have opinions anymore.. I'm just trying to rid the Internet of incorrect information.. 1 down, 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to go...

 

Good luck with that...

 

hey I've been doing alot of reading but not much talks about the reverse lockout switch. Do I need it? if so how do most of you guys wire it up. maybe I just miss it in the other threads. also does anyone have diagram or something about shortening the master cylinder. To avoid the super high release.

also will my speedometer need anything its a 91.
thanks.

 

Advance searching in the forums is your friend..

Rev Lockout is nice, but many run without it. I have mine wired to both clutch and brake pedal switches in series, but (as I found) it doesn't help doing heel-toe 6-5 downshifts.. LOL The 4thgen ECM takes in account VSS also. (Edit: For some reason originally I read Rev lock, and my brain said Neutral Safety.. doh)

Stock pedals may ride high with master. Either use 4thgen pedals or adj-master.

91 will need PROM change for road-speed-constant, and speedo output divisor changed.

 

First off, the reverse lockout solenoid is designed to be "on" when no power is applied. So without power it still works. At low speed you can "crash through" into reverse using brute strength to overwhelm the solenoid. GM set it up this way so that if the solenoid didn't get power it still did it's job, like if the fuse blew. The though was that is was better to have it on to prevent an accidental shift into reverse at speed, rather than have the default position be off.

The best thing to do is power the reverse lockout solenoid from the brake pedal. This way it is easy to put the trans in reverse when you step on the brake. At the speed you would want to shift into 5th you won't be stepping on the brake, so it protects you from an accidental trip into reverse while shooting for 5th gear.

Get the pedals working first, then decide if you want to modify the release point. Don't complicate the situation too much until you know that the setup works and the car runs and drives. Trying to cut and modify the hyraulics just gives you one more thing that could potentially go wrong.