Last month I thought I blew the front seal on my 700r4. Well we pulled the trans, inspected everything and couldnt find where it was leaking. The seal looked good, the pump gasket looked okay. I know it was leaking somewhere inside the bellhousing.

Well we installed a new seal and reinstalled the transmission. I put a couple of quarts of fluid in it and started it up. I went through the gears, got out and seen fluid pouring on the floor. It was literally pouring out from around the bellhousing and the flexplate was throwing it across the garage.

Its not the cooler lines. Assuming it is not the seal, what else could it be? Cracked pump? Pump gasket? Something in the converter?

Any ideas or things I should check to help find the culprit? This is driving me crazy. With as much problems I have had out of an automatic (and as much money I have put into it) I should have went to a manual years ago!

For some more information, when this first started, there were no warning signs. It never leaked. Then while I was on a 2 hour trip, about an hour from the house, the transmission started going in and out of overdrive. I pulled over and noticed fluid coming out of it. On the wrecker ride home we could see fluid on the road for a good 4 miles up the road before I ever had any signs or issues.

 

Look for cracking around the weld between the converter's input hub(what the seal runs on) and the converter housing. It's not uncommon for them to crack around this weld.

 

Thanks. I will check that tonight.

 

Well we got to look at it this evening with the transmission still in the car. We looked it over and cleaned all of the fluid off of it. Then we briefly fired the car up. 5 seconds was all it took before it started coming out. From what we can tell, it looks like it is squirting out from behind the pump at the top. There was a line of fluid coming from the pump up the bellhousing. The way the line went it couldnt have got there from being slung off the converter. Im going to pull the transmission tomorrow and see what I can tell from that. From the way the fluid is coming out, it looks like from the pump instead of the converter.

Any thoughts on that? Anyway to tell once I get the trans out? I am still going to check the converter hub.

Also, if it is the pump or the pump gasket, how hard is it to replace? Does the whole front assembly have to come out or can just the pump be removed? Thanks

 

you sure you have right seal on it?Sounds like wrong seal.

 

As far as we can tell it is. Has the right number, it fits the trans and fits snug on the converter.


Here is a post I started with some pictures of the converter hub. It has a weird wear pattern on it. Im curious if the two problems are related.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ml#post5080152

 

The front pump cover is sealed to the case with an o-ring around the circumference and a small seal on each bolt. You need a slide hammer, in fact we use a set of 2 small slide hammers, to dislodge the front pump from the case. I seem to remember seeing this problem before and it being something with the pressure regulator valve. I'm going to do some research and see what I can find. I used to have these units laying around but I no longer do or I could just go take a look at one.

 

I ran into the same problem a couple years ago, turned out that the bushing in my front pump was bad and allowing enough movent of the convertor for the seal to leak. I would suspect that this could be your prob, I removed my trans 3 times before I figured it out. If it was mine I would remove the front pump and install a new pump bushing and seal and also replace the front pump mounting gasket and o ring that goes around the outside of the pump.

You do not need a special puller to get the pump out, just take the pump bolts out, remove trans pan and you can knock the pump loose from inside the pan, make sure you remove your tcc solenoid first unless you wanna buy a new one!!!!

 

ASE Doc mentioned in my other thread that it looked like the pump bushing may be shot.

Thanks for all the help guys.

What would cause the bushing to go bad? The transmission has less than 5k miles on a rebuild. I got all of my parts from Dana at Pro Built. Could the builder have done something wrong? Could a balance issue with the converter or flexplate cause it to go bad so quickly?

Thanks again.

 

converter shutter would wear the bushing out

 

what causes converter shutter? Out of balance or not concentric?

 

the guts inside the converter. you would feel a shutter from a bad converter when it shifts

 

I never felt anything. Everything was working and feeling fine. Just started loosing fluid.

 

maybe it wasnt replaced or it was and was not put in square

 

well the guy that done the rebuild for me has rebuilt 3 other transmissions for me. The first 3 was great and we have had no problems. This one, well he has had some family issues and there has already been a few things that I have had to correct. My problem is that I know nothing about auto transmissions. Nothing. Until now I didnt know they had a bushing in there. So what Im saying is, it could have been installed incorrectly.

 

look at the bushing before removing it from the pump and look for scaring

 

has to pump seal then.I would take back to who ever rebulit that. Thats unaseptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well a guy my dad works with builds transmissions for several guys in that area in his spare time. He guarantees he can fix it. He said that it sounded like the same things you guys have mentioned. We are going to take the converter and transmission to him to check and fix.

As far as taking it back to the guy that initially worked on it, trust me that bridge has been burnt. He has done great work for us before, he is still someone I will talk to when I see him on the street, but I will never take anything else back to him to work on. He let personal issues get involved with his work when all he should of said was that he couldnt do it. Im not going down that road again.

Deer season is open so it will probably be mid january or so before I get it back. No worries though, the car wasnt driven much in winter anyways. Last year she set for 3 months, the year before she set for 5. Nothing she aint used to

I will post up down the road with what I find out.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

lol you say he has problems . then u say deer seasons opening.Easy. your not going hunting with him are you? rememberhe is not a deer . ha ha .

 

Quick Update: Transmission is at the shop. Guy said that the converter was just barely engaging into the pump. Not sure how far he got other then I know he has the valve body off. Im not sure if the pump is out yet or not. Hopefull will find out more today.

 

Sounds like a damaged flexplate.

 

Ordering a new one tomorrow just to be for sure.

 

let me know how this turns out.plz

 

I would like to know how it turns out too 50'000 on my motor 172900 on the tras. well the rest of the car is at 172900 for that matter. it does not leak but some day somethings going to give. is there a plug missing from the converter?

 

My dad has the transmission and converter back at the garage. Going to look things over friday and get more information for you all then.

Also going today to autozone to pick up a new Pioneer FRA-159 flexplate. Summit has them for $35 while Autozone has them at $25.

Will post pics and information tomorrow night.

 

that happened to me as well, and i turned out to be the front bushing. they have since made revised clips/holders for certain year transmissions to help with that problem. and make sure he stakes it in. some people do and dont do it. just security

 

Update:

Pulled the old flexplate. Visually everything looked fine. It may have just a slight slight warp to it but nothing definate. Done the ring test to it and doesnt sound like any cracks. Went ahead and replaced it as cheap insurance.

Builder replaced the pump bushing. He said it looked a little distorted. I didnt talk to him personally so Im not sure exactly what he done. He did say everything else looked good.

I pulled a used 700r4 converter out and compared it to the one Im running. Everything looked okay and measured up alright. The only difference was that the old converter would mount deeper then the new one. We determined that it was due to the internal depth of the converter. We called the company but they were no help. The converter goes deep enough that it doesnt bind up with the flywheel so it shouldnt be an issue.

Ran out of time working on it. We have the converter on the bench and the transmission is on the jack under the car. This thursday if all goes well she will be bolted back up.

Cliff Notes: Not installed yet, couldnt find a definate cause, replaced the pump bushing and going to try again thursday.

 

Posted in your other thread, be sure the two dowels are installed in the back of the block.

 

The dowels are there.

Well my dad and I put the trans in today. Everything went well during the install. Got everything in and buttoned up. Fired it up for a second. Put in 2 more quarts of fluid. Then fired it up again.

Well nothing has changed. Same style leak.

So, new flexplate, new seal, new pump bushing. Everything is new except for one thing. The converter. We checked it the best we could. But it has got to be the problem. I dont know what else could be.

Now I have a real dilema. I cant afford to nor do I really have the need at this point for a high dollar converter. I would love to have one but right now is not the time. Plus I would hate to sink the money into a converter when it may or may not be the issue.
I could get a cheap unit to put in, but I would hate to do that. I dont need the car, especially since winter is coming on.
I guess I will try to find someplace that can check the converter. I dont trust the original company to do it.
I'll post up as I find stuff out. Thanks for the help.

 

wow man, thats a damn bummer.

 

does it steadily leak for a moment when you shut it off

 

Night mare!!!! gl

 

could be the pump gasket.when tras it out and coververt is off. did u take pump off and check that gasket?

 

you have to so mad at this point. bein done that

 

It's hard to tell. So much gets thrown around inside the bellhousing. When it is shut off you can still see it coming out of the bellhousing for a bit, then slows to a drip.

The pump was pulled and a new bushing was installed. All new seals and gaskets went in.

I have two numbers for people that work on converters. One builds converters for several of the local dirt track racers, the other has done a lot of work for the guy that installed the pump bushing. I'll give them a call sometime and talk to them. Probably send the converter to one of them to check/fix.

 

Reading all back threads,I would allmost bet that something interal is broke.Did you take pan off and make sure there nothing broke in there?I mean u replaced everything from pump out.So prossible that something broke. That letting fluid out..(Unlikely.Put possible)

 

The valve body was pulled to pull the pump. He said everything looked good.

 

This is crazy? you little men in the tras. pumping fuild oit? hope u get it right.

 

I spoke with a guy out in Gray Tennessee from TCE (The Converter Exchange). Very nice guy and seemed to know a lot about converters. The guy that put the pump bushing in highly recommended them.

After talking to him Im going to send the converter to him to check and possibly fix. He also confirmed that ACC is a terrible company with cheap converters. He suspects a hub failure as well. They will pressure check everything and give me an opinion on what to do for free. Then we will work from there.

Im going to pull the converter around christmas time. Will update more as it goes.

 

i found your thread.. and after reading it im just going to add lucas no slip for now.. Im starting up my trans am after 5 months. been sitting because of diff leak and trans leak. I been driving my little s10 great on gas like 28mpg.. but the trans mount was bad on the S10 and mess up the real trans seal (T-5 transmission).. Im stuck trying to get the damn bushing out of the tailhousing of the S10. I have to drop the T-5 and split the case and take it to a machine shop to press it out and new one in.. Until i get it split, I went on to the trans am and redid the rear diff and let cure good. (cold w/lamp).. and going to just add add more transmission fluid.. its leaked bad over 5 months. theres 2 cameos with t-5 trans in the dismantle yard.. about 600 for a trans swap. im thinking about it... hehehehe. i dont want to do the trans with in a garage but outside wide open level concrete tented up around with extra light.never pulled an auto-transmission before. its almost time..

 

Did you/they check the front pump cover for cracks? or possibly even the case itself, maybe around where the front pump cover bolts are?

 

Yes. Nothing noticeable.

Planning on pulling the trans again when Im off for christmas. If the converter checks out then I guess I will have to do some sort of pressure test on the case/pump.

 

One thing I should mention: Proper installation of the front pump seal is critical. It's real easy to dislodge the tension spring from the lip of the seal just by driving it in. One method for preventing this is to fill the back of the seal with assembly lube. Pack it in tight around the tension spring so that the spring is retained by the thick assembly grease. This works very well. I don't know if this might be what happened to you but it's something to look at.

A common problem on some transmissions is high pressure at the front pump seal due to excessive clearance between the pump rotor and case. Some manufacturers used a seal retainer to prevent the seal from being pushed out. Another thing to consider. Hope some of this helps.

 

the transmisson gods hate you!!!

 

Im pulling the transmission thursday and going to send the converter off to be tested.

 

Isnt there some S10 converter that works and fits well and is an affordable alternative to an expensive aftermarket one?

 

No idea.

Im getting pretty good at pulling the transmission from this car. Without even trying it didnt take me an hour to get it out.

Going to send the converter out next week.

 

hope this is last time you pull 1 out of that car for along time.. merryxmas

 

Just got the call. Torque converter is junk. They put pressure on it and shot fluid everywhere. Cracked near the hub and they were surprised it didnt come off.

Basically this is the same thing that another member on here had happen. Here is his thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...rter-what.html


And this is the same brand of converter, except mine was the more expensive 10" unit. Basically they will not stand behind their product at all. Do NOT deal with ACC Performance. Boss Hog converters are junk. I even had to send this one back once before when it was brand new because it wouldnt go on the transmission.

Here is the thread on that issue: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...lease-1-a.html

TCE (The Converter Exchange) is building me a converter now.

 

So glad I stayed away. I saw some of the horror stories beforehand, heh.. I really hope you get a refund. Did you do this on a credit card?