Azrael91966669

ok so i picked up a TCI Breakaway TCI 243107
my engine is a zz3 with tpi
my gears are 3.23
Breakaway 265° to 280° "correct for zz3 cam duration" 3.00 to 3.73 fair idle, mild modifications 2200 to 2600

i picked this converter up after reading thread after thread of useing a 2500 stall with tpi works well and is still very streetible
im not thinking i made the wrong choice going with this apperantly bad advice
it dosnt seem very streetible to me ive used a 1/2 tank of gas in less then 50 miles my guess all the over reving to get the thing to speed

now it seems to be stalling at 2700 brake load test

under full throttle it feels like a sling shot but otherwise street driving sucks it revs high with not much movement
on the freeway it dose "lock up" but the lock up seems weak as it seems to lose speed and to get back up i almost have to floor it to get back up unless i feel like takeing along time to gain 5 mph.

in general street and freeway driving sucks i have to gas the car to get it to move it takes about 5 sec to start rolling on its own with out gasing even in reverse
i used to beable to to rolling burn during the 1-2 shift now its so soft i bearly notice the shift and flooring it from a roll pushes the engine to 4500 but seems to be slipping more then gripping and overall the car feels slower other then from a standing start
also it seems to hold exactly at 4000-5000 when running from a stop to 80
wot
is this just the norm for a high stall ?

i even got pulled over tonight just accerateing slowly because of how loud the car is is now that it seems to need alot more rpm to get moving
it feels like ive lost most of the engines torque

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

The brand of torque converter is very important when getting a torque converter. I have not had much luck with TCI, especially for a street application. If you want so etching street able that will blow your socks off when you nail it look at yank or vigilante

Ron U.S.M.C.

Sounds like allot of his problem is just getting the thing off the line without gunning it.

AlkyIROC

The purpose of a higher stall converter is to get the engine rpm up into the cams powerband for best performance. This means you'll normally be driving around at higher rpms. If you build an engine to make power in a higher rpm range, fuel economy will always suffer when driving around at slow speeds.

Azrael91966669

i put it like this if this were a manual it would be me rideing the clutch to get started
the converter is way to loose for the street in general it takes alot more go pedal to move or to maintane speed unless im above 2500 the lock up is working but seems like the lock up is very weak as it loses speed when engaged unless i give it more gas then needed

Azrael91966669

the way most of the topics i read said its just a big jump for off the line but normal driving isnt that effected
this engine is a torque monster with a stock converter
now it feels weak driving around and even flooring it from a roll dosnt do much seems to have a hard time pulling to speed from a roll shoots right to 4600rpm and just holds there till it gets to 5000 then drops back to 4600
exactly where tpi starts to taper off and it feels like its constantly slipping

ie stock converter floored from 20-25 it would light the tires up and shoots to 60 in what seems like a blink of an eye
high stall floored from 20-25 it shoots up to high rpm but no wheel spin and takes what seems forever to get to 60
but it sure makes a lot of noise ie lots of wot noise for not much speed

the only improvement the high stall seems to do is if im sitting still and gun it it takes off like a sling shot then keeps the rpms high 4600-5000 till i let off

like i said i even was pulled over tonight for how loud it is now ie the extra rpm it takes to move the car in street driving easeing on the throttle bearly moves the car and it wont start moveing till atlest 1500 rpm for anything other then a crawl


im starting to think i should have ignored the cam specs since the tpi seems to be dictateing the power here
and gone with 1800 - 2000 stall as it would have put me more into the power band for this engine since this converter is stalling as if it where behind a "big block" as per tcis specs

Ron U.S.M.C.

( ie stock converter floored from 20-25 it would light the tires up and shoots to 60 in what seems like a blink of an eye )

If this is true than why even mess with any thing other than stock. What "exactly" are you trying to achieve ?

Azrael91966669

because my last trans lost 3rd and 4th and i didnt feel like getting another factory converter , so i put in my spare trans in and figured nows the time for the high stall .

i had been told and by reading the forums here that it seemed a higher stall around 2500 with lock up wouldnt effect gas mileage or normal cruiseing but yet it does alot . and offers only one perk a great standing still launch had that been said in any topics that i read i wouldnt have done the mod just would have went with the s10/vette converter so i guess thats what im gonna do now

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I have a 4K stall and mine will start rolling at idle in gear..


I think you're on the right track with the vette converter, I bet someone would buy your old one quick.


If you really want to dial it in I've had good luck with Revmax Converters. I think mine was $350 and it was $150 to re-stall it once (3200 to 4000), actual flash is between 4K and 4.5K.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I do not have the same experience as you describe. It sounds like you got the wrong converter, and cheaper TCI units i have not heard much good.

My cars havent lost much mpg in city driving and none on highway with lockup. Lockup should not drag motor down in rpm. It shouldnt take much throttle to get moving regardless of stall speed. I'd say you need a better designed converter and that means abit more money but its well worth it.

You sure you got it full of fluid?? It also shouldnt hover at 5000 rpm during a pull. It should sweep rpm like stock for a low stall speed like that. Sure the trans is healthy and built right??

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

My 9.5" ACT Lockup was spec'd and built for my old 350 TPI down to the exact OEM peanut camshaft that was in it. It stalled right around 2400 RPM.

Smaller stalls are lighter and are suppose to increase the torque multiplier.

My guess is issues with the stall. It's usually one of those areas you get what you pay for. If you want to drop $450-$900 some companies will build them exactly for your setup.

Things with mine I did notice:

Idle speed if the ground is level I do not move. But if the ground is not level best to keep a foot on the brake because I could actually start to roll backwards even in forward gears.

Pulling up on car ramps were a pain. I always just used some 2x12s or 2x8s to get a better angle to not hammer the underside of the bumper off the metal ramps. After the stall if I didn't get over the lip of the board I would dig a hole in the gravel driveway usually before moving.

I could use some gas and let the converter slip to start moving without issues under most situations (slight inclines could be issues).

On max top end MPH I did notice the car wanted to shift into OD about 5 MPH quicker, but I also changed transmissions to a Pro-Built. So could have been that.

My G-Tech Pro 0-60 sec times actually increased with street tires on the street. This was due to the excess spinning off the line. I never put on slicks or drag radials to confirm they would be better with more traction.

My G-Tech Pro 1/4 Mile ET improved slightly.

After the 383 swap even with a crappy bad setup (only picked up 80 RWHP on a built motor ) stall speed has changed to around 2800-3000. Once I did a lockup kit it drives fine still.

Azrael91966669

the trans was working fine before it fell off a jack stand 3 years ago and cracked the bellhouseing just had it welded since its replacment lost 3rd and 4th

fluid level is normal and the coverter had fluid in it when installed
tv cable is adjusted properly
it keeps over revving to get in gear and will flash anytime the gas is pressed

its the only tci converter with lockup for 700r4 i could have got a non lock up streetfighter for less
i diffently hovers around 4000-5000 rpm during a pull the lockup works but dosnt seem very strong as it loses speed and will then flash up to 3000 rpm on the freeway and really not gain speed i have to put more foot in it if i want to gain speed and im talking like going from 55-65 speed limits 65 and it the lock up point is right around 23-2400 it will lose speed from 65 to 60 and then to get back up to speed i almost have to do 3/4 throttle

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah its either a bad converter or something with trans. That description sounds way wrong and i have been in manyy converter cars

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

you certainly have an issue, im not that knowlegable about autos to say if its the trans or tq but one is definitely bad. i have a non lockup th400 with tq that i had custom made and 4.10's and my rpms for all speeds you list are way lower. with a lockup tq and 3.23's you should be way lower. if i had to guess i would guess the trans is slipping

Azrael91966669

well it seems to be getting better the more i drive it maybe the trans needed to get some fluid flowing for a bit after sitting .

the tq flash stall is still annoying but the converter is locking more and the rpms are starting to lower for normal driving .

mind you ive added 2 more qt of fluid and its now reading way above the marking but it seemed to allow the lock up clutch to hold better and overall driving as improved alittle , other techs at work suggested it so i said why not worst case ill just toss another trans in

still haveing an issue with it shooting to 4000+ when floored pretty much any gear mind you its not slipping there it just flashes to there and starts pulling very hard as hard as tpi lets you pull there anyway.

im going to swap in the other govenenor i have i noticed its not making it to 5500 seems to be shifting around 49-5100 .
also on the freeway when doing a pass with med throttle it just shoots to 3000 rpm and holds dosnt accerate as fast as it used to if you push the gas down anymore it downshifts and hauls but once again its shooting to 4000+
"if only i had a mini ram or converted lt1 intake" lol would do so much better with this converter

basicly light pedal bearly moves the car stock converter would feel stuipid torquey with light pedal movements


still wont rolling burn any more but i think its because being shot above the tq band

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Sound like you are blowing thru the converter. It should not flash to 4000 and hold there. That would be more like a 4000 stall speed not a 2400-2600. Thats why i dont like cheaper shelf stock converters.

If you were in first gear and moving at 10-15 mph which should be just off idle rpm, and you mashed the gas, converter should flash to 2600, and pull from there. If it would hold traction that is and most tpi cars will not at that rpm on street lol

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-...education.html

I'm not a TCI converter fan because of the reasons and pictures posted above. Even if it were working perfectly, you still have the issue of cheap parts that will break soon (and take your transmission with it).

Honestly, I'd send it back (if you can) and get a refund. Spend the money on a Circle D, Vigilante, or Yank. A good converter brand will make your driving experience awesome and fun. A bad converter brand will annoy the heck out of you in day to day driving as well as break down way too soon.

The TCI breakaway is advertised as a 2400-2600 stall with a 10" (300 mm) size. This is FAR from being an unstreetable, easy to live with specification. It's not until you get into 3500+ stalls with 9.5" (245 mm) converters, that streetability starts to become an issue.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

It's not living up to it's rated stall speed. If you bought it recently, I'd look into returning it.

I agree with you the TPI shifts the torque curve down a bit. While that's slightly exacerbating the problem, it's a contributing factor, not the problem itself.

On the note of power @ rpm, I wouldn't mess with the governor until you get a different converter in.

Azrael91966669

main reason im swapping the govenor is this was my old trans when i still had tbi it had lower overall shift points then the trans that came from a tpi car

jmd

iTrader: (4)

And that rpm range you would be adding is exactly where the TPI noticeably curbs power. Making the most of the torque curve you have is what's important. Rather than the higher rpm range where the TPI limits power.

klferguson26

I would also return it, then I would make a call to which ever manufacturer and tell them the details of your vehicle so they can get you the right converter for what your looking for. Most times, just off the shelf things do not hit all the high points someone is looking for and custom items tailor made to your vehicle may cost more initially, but give better results in the end.

Azrael91966669

"Most times, just off the shelf things do not hit all the high points someone is looking for "
im starting to see that after driving it now for a full week

so i did swap in the "tpi" govenor and it made a big differance the lower speed driving seems better but
it lets the engine spin to 6500 rpm before shifting lol but i can let off at 6000 when the power really falls off and it upshifts right back into the powerband
now i learned something by this it really shows the converter is 1000 rpms over stock lol
the gov swap was a good idea

Azrael91966669

ok so today i decided to toss a stock converter in to see what would happen to make sure it wasnt a trans issue
and was able to see that the converter wascauseing all of my issues
as they all have disappered converter locks with no loss of speed no slipping in all gears
behind the zz3 the factory stall is brake stalling to 1800 400rpm higher then stock
i belive thats why the tci was brake stalling at 2800 i bit to high for my tastes apperently

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yup, the tci is way too loose for that engine. If you can spend the coin on a better converter target one around 2500-2800 stall. It will brake stall closer to 2200 and be more fun than stock but no where near what the tci one was doing. I had good luck with Edge racing converters for around 550$. Custom street edge 9.5" model

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I feel bad for you, having to go through the hassle of installing/removal/reinstalling a converter that doesn't work well. Not to mention the cost involved with all of this.

For now, you might as well keep the stock converter in there just for piece of mind and not having to deal with it for awhile. But I will say that if you put in a Vigilante, Yank, or Circle D converter with the same 2800 range, any of them will be your favorite modification. Hands down, no questions about it.

Azrael91966669

honestly i had drove a ls1 with a high stall a few years back and couldnt tell it was even there

thats why i said i wasnt impressed in mine i could see a major differance in street driving in a bad way

i wouldnt have made the topic if all went well lol

dont get me wrong it was a sling shot off the line but it effected daily driving way to much

Azrael91966669

i know its been a year but i got to drive a friends iroc with a vigilante converter in it
and it felt almost stock ie didn't have the major slip off the line with normal driving it felt tighter but if you just gunned it at any time it just flashed and took off
like the tci did but the vigilante did lock up properly on the freeway and didn't need to be feathered
i guess this is just a loose 2500 stall with bad manners you get what you pay for i guess lol sadly that was over 400 bucks

AlkyIROC

My 8", 6000 stall race converter was worth about $1200. With torque converters, you really do get what you pay for. An inexpensive converter is usually inexpensive for a reason.

IROCThe5.7L

I have a 3600 vigilante convertor behind my 427. I love it. The car will roll off idle if I take my foot off the brake. I can accelerate with traffic and keep it around 2500 rpm. I couldn't be happier.

Pro Built Automatics

The above reasons is why I do not recommend TCI, nor will I warranty a transmission of mine if they use one. The Edge is good and at a reasonable price and a 2 year warranty. If you want the 5 year warranty and a free 2 year stall change then the Precision Industries Vigilante is the way to go. Circle D is another good one, and there are others. TCI and B&M are the worst for 700R4's and 4L60E's.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats surprising ive never had any bad luck with any tci converter , though most of the v8 ones ive used were on really mild builds.

on the other hand my v6 car has a tci ssf and i absolutly love it and that car makes over 500fltbs at the flywheel i did have to send it back in once for a restall as it was a lil tight for the new v6 engine but that thing has been alive and kickin for 6-7 years now with no issues
its actually the goto converter for us v6 turbo guys
b&m i wont touch at all learned my lesson the hard way.

that being said the twin turbo iroc has circle d

Azrael91966669

I was thinking about this and looking converters again
I was rereading my old post .
im just wondering if that converter was shot ?
the issues it had with the lock up and what not like you are cruising on the freeway and it was hard to keep it at 65ish if you wanted it to stay locked.
if I was to just hold the gas or use the cruise it just couldn't hold the speed it would get slower then to regain it would flash up but that also cause it to down shift would jump to the 4600 , even the lightest touch of the pedal that happened .
holding your foot steady car would slowly lose speed till it unlocked then just lightly touching the pedal it would flash up . it got annoying , the car is a daily summer car .

it would not roll at idle with that converter you has to get it up to around 1200 just for it to start rolling ie crawl .
I didn't mean I had to push it to 2500 to get it rolling or anything but to get moving like persay a normal street car you had to push it to 1600-2000 to get it moving any faster then a crawl as if I riding a clutch in a manual

since Ive drove the car with the same engine/trans/governor and both converters stock and tci the tci say im driving normal rolling at almost any speed and punch it it would shoot up to 4000 rpm but the stock converter would only shoot to 3000
its almost like the stall added 1000 rpm all the time with the same governor tci would shift at 6500 and the stock stall shifted at 5500 that's what confused me the most
and didn't expect a converter to do that kinda change .
or maybe the engine could just rev that much faster with the loose stall ? to fast for the governor to kick in the upshift or what not I did notice it getting worse the more I drove it . I thought the trans was slipping bad but as soon as I swapped the stock converter back in no issues every normal in the trans department lol I wasn't able to resell it or return it they wouldn't take back a used part lol summit told me I just wasn't used to a high stall . I just took it as a live you learn

current converter im thinking about http://circledspecialties.com/p-29-g...converter.aspx

now im not sure what stall I should use but since I have the zz3/superram it can pull low but its not neck snapping like the 2500 was im thinking the 22-2400 this time around I want the car to feel some what normal just driving around but have the stall there when I need it like when I go to the track but lock up is mandatory for me but that circle d doesn't say if it is lock up or not

redneckjoe

i learned my lesson about cheap converters too. last year i bought one of those summit brand 10" converters. drove the car around for a little while, then did one good launch, and that was it. the stator broke. what a POS. never again.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Off the shelf big box brand converters are never a good idea. I have one (not TCI), 11" 2800 stall and I have a custom built 9.5" 3500 stall.

The custom built 3500 stall drives around town better than the 2800 stall. The 2800 has a lot of 'loss of moment', where the 3500 stall will pull through the brakes at a high idle speed.

I think that's part of your prob, but also sounds like a junk/bad converter from the get go, not just it being a crappy off the shelf unit.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

If you do a search on the boards here for B&M and TCI, you'll learn that everyone, with few exceptions, has bad things to say about them.

It was for that reason I bought a 2800 Vigilante that's waiting to go in with my new trans after the Superbowl.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

While Circle D has a good reputation, you will be disappointed with that converter. 11 and 12" units are crap. They do nothing but lose efficiency and create excessive heat. You want a 258mm converter, 2500-2800 stall. Circle D can build that for you, but probably not at that price. While the stall speed is similar to the rating of the junk TCI you had, a custom built converter will be true to the rating and perform FAR better.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

My Vigilante cost $730. I got a 20% military discount, so $900ish without it. If you're paying under $500 for a converter, it had better be a used version of the big ones from the companies listed above. You want a 9" converter. Anything bigger (11" or 12" = stock (basically)

Listen to us, please..do not go cheap on the converter. DO NOT...you WILL regret it.

Also, NO B&M or TCI...ever.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Get one of these:

Vigilante by Precision Industries

bbc632

Best advise some old man told years ago ditch the automatic and go standards for the street, damn best advise ever got ,use to have horrible trouble with autos.