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T56 grinding in every gear

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Old 07-12-2013, 12:53 AM   #1
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T56 grinding in every gear

I drained the fluid, before i put it in... it was blackish and there were maybe 2 qts that came out. I poured ~3.5 quarts of dex 3 back in before the fill plug started draining.
It grinds a bit in neutral but you cant really hear that unless you're under the car. In gear you can hear it clearly over the exhaust from at least 10ft away. Its currently on jack stands since i just finished the swap. It shifts into every gear really smooth and it doesn't seem to be trying to hop out of gear.

I've got 4th gen pedals, new clutch kit/pilot bushing and a new master/slave assembly.

Prior to putting the trans in it seemed alright, the input shaft didn't have any play that i could feel and there didn't seem to be much if any between the input and output in any gear.

I'm at a loss, it reminds me of an old rock crusher but its louder

Also plumbers putty is a great way to get pilot bearings out, no mess and it only took two hits on a 5/8 18 bolt i used (couldn't get it to really thread in)
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:39 PM   #2
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

i checked the posts in an lt-ls forum but they all seemed to have clutch/PP problems.

It doesn't grind when i put it in gear like a synchro at all
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:45 PM   #3
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

You just installed it?

If it was run with 2qts, it may be junk altogether, since that's low on fluid.

Post a video of all these scenarios you're describing.

And pics of "black fluid."

And for that matter, since it's possibly junk, get a video of driving around the neighborhood.
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:54 AM   #4
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

did the fluid smell like gear oil? i've seen people put that in instead of dex3
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:58 PM   #5
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I dumped the fluid in with the atf from the auto trans. It did have a slight redness to it in the right light so i'm pretty sure it WAS atf and not gear oil... though that may quiet it down...

I can try to take a video of the noise and me driving it a bit, I need to take it 10 miles or so before i pull the trans back out and take it apart, I hope it doesn't fall apart...

I'm kinda guessing the bearings are shot from it maybe being run with low fluid, its unfortunate since the synchros/forks seem to be just fine
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:28 PM   #6
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

They may have used lucas trans fix to make it quieter. It is like ATF but thick like gear oil.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:05 AM   #7
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I was actually thinking about draining a bit and adding some of that lucas trans fix stuff... Its done wonders for my automatics that i thought for sure were dead in the past (i was more thinking of trying that for the 10 mile drive)

the fluid that was in there didn't really seem any thicker than regular atf (drained pretty fast) so i'm guessing it wasn't trans fix?

it had a price on it and such like it was bought at a swap meet, the guy i got it from sold it to me for 100 less than what was on it (and his handwriting was much worse) so i'm guessing it sat for awhile before i got it?

I think i just gambled and lost... it happens to me most of the time i get used parts...

I'll take it apart and look it over, if it all looks fine as far as I know i'll hand it over to finish line performance and ask for an upgrade/repair next year and i'll push it back into the garage...

hopefully i can get some decent quality video of the gravel in my trans
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:53 AM   #8
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

What bellhousing was used? T5s and t56s have different length input shafts.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:07 PM   #9
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

the t56's bell housing? I wasn't aware that the t5 bell would fit on a t56? i thought the T5 didn't use a pull clutch?
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:14 PM   #10
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckNo4 View Post
I was actually thinking about draining a bit and adding some of that lucas trans fix stuff... Its done wonders for my automatics that i thought for sure were dead in the past (i was more thinking of trying that for the 10 mile drive)
Really helped my accord trans shift after my syncros started going bad.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:09 AM   #11
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckNo4 View Post
I was actually thinking about draining a bit and adding some of that lucas trans fix stuff... Its done wonders for my automatics that i thought for sure were dead in the past (i was more thinking of trying that for the 10 mile drive)
If the tapered bearings are worn out, no change in viscosity is going to prevent the geartrain from over-meshing and junking further. In short: If it's not functioning properly on Dex III, get it off the road and fixed or replaced instead of creating a metallic bath and junking everything in it (which WILL occur.)

Quote:
it had a price on it and such like it was bought at a swap meet, the guy i got it from sold it to me for 100 less than what was on it (and his handwriting was much worse) so i'm guessing it sat for awhile before i got it?

I think i just gambled and lost...
Sounds like it. If he would have let you open up the tailhousing (one roll pin, 8 bolts,) you would have probably seen a pretty dirty pair of magnets down low and avoided the purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckNo4 View Post
the t56's bell housing? I wasn't aware that the t5 bell would fit on a t56? i thought the T5 didn't use a pull clutch?
Correct. It's kind of important to refer to yours as "LT1 T56" to be clearer.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:38 AM   #12
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckNo4 View Post
the t56's bell housing? I wasn't aware that the t5 bell would fit on a t56? i thought the T5 didn't use a pull clutch?
The T5 bellhousing will fit with an adapter plate. The LT1 bellhousing is a direct bolt up. The LS1 bellhousing will work with a plate between the block and the bellhousing, but the input shaft length is incorrect. Since you hear it grind in neutral, it could be something to check.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:44 PM   #13
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota W. View Post
The T5 bellhousing will fit with an adapter plate. The LT1 bellhousing is a direct bolt up. The LS1 bellhousing will work with a plate between the block and the bellhousing, but the input shaft length is incorrect. Since you hear it grind in neutral, it could be something to check.
this was an auto to t56 swap so I didn't have a T5 to mix up, and it has the LT1 bell housing so that wasn't the problem, Its definitely bearings. I put a full bottle of lucas oil in it and now the trans is silent, I couldn't get any video with audio that allowed you to really hear the trans noise over the exhaust (I only have a rugby 2) But, with the noise gone after replacing some of the dex3 with lucas it has to be bearings right?
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:24 AM   #14
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmd View Post
If the tapered bearings are worn out, no change in viscosity is going to prevent the geartrain from over-meshing and junking further. In short: If it's not functioning properly on Dex III, get it off the road and fixed or replaced instead of creating a metallic bath and junking everything in it (which WILL occur.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckNo4 View Post
But, with the noise gone after replacing some of the dex3 with lucas it has to be bearings right?
. . .
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:34 AM   #15
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

it actually hasn't been on the road, its still on jack stands, but i do need to move it to where i can store it for an extended period of time so I'll have to hope it can survive the 10 mile drive? Unless you don't think it'll even do that? then i'll have to cough up the 200$ to have it towed to my house. 200 is better than 2000 right?

Last edited by RedneckNo4; 07-24-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:01 PM   #16
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

WELLL I drove it home, at first it seemed pretty fantastic, aside from the reverse syncro seeming bad.

it was easy to get moving, smooth, and very enjoyable... it'll be nice after i re-build it. (i was worried about drive-ability with the lighter flywheel and the 3.27 rear)

After i drove it a mile or two it was almost impossible to get it into first at a stop light (there were a few) like it had NO syncro. It was much MUCH worse than reverse, I needed to let the car roll backward to get it in.
Then when i got to the main road with a 50 speed limit i noticed it was pretty hard to get it into 6th as well (made a clunk when it went in too) and i even got the rev-match pretty close.

Now that i have the trans back out I checked the up and down play in the input shaft again... It didn't seem so good (maybe a mm or two now), I can hear something clunking around inside while i move the input shaft up and down, but it doesn't sound like everything inside is moving, sounds more like one gear or something is hitting before everything else.

I'll take the tail off and check the magnets as soon as possible, and maybe make my own arms for my gear puller so i can check/replace the bearings? A friend of mine played me a youtube video of "gear chatter after lightweight flywheel swap" it sounded very similar to my noise but not as loud

Last edited by RedneckNo4; 08-07-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:09 AM   #17
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

the input shaft clunking is bad bearings (atleast for the front)
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:34 PM   #18
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I suppose i have an update for this, I took the transmission apart. It has all new tapered bearings and the carbon blocker rings (also barely worn in). There was also very little metal on the magnets.

I discovered the grinding is actually just gear chatter from the 18 lb flywheel (at least that's what it sounded like).

The gears are in perfect condition with a good ware pattern (though a bit toward the front of the transmission).

The only thing that actually seems worn out is reverse, the synchro is destroyed and someone already flipped it so I need a new one, also one of the fork pads crumpled to pieces when i took the fork off.
The keys are all the stock stamped steel ones but they aren't very worn if at all. It also still has the aluminum 3/4 shift fork. It also seemed like most of the needle bearings were near the end of their lives but i'm not sure on that.

I'm going to check the shimming/pre-load on the bearings to make sure thats in spec. aside from that I still have NO idea why It nearly wouldn't shift into 1st/2nd after it warmed up. the synchro looks fine unless it was put back in backward or something? The obvious mountain of damage to reverse is, i'm assuming, why I could barely use it.

any ideas on 1/2?

Last edited by RedneckNo4; 06-05-2014 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:23 PM   #19
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Nothing about 1-2 really stands out in your thread. Pics might help. If all other gears were working great, you just have to check all pieces of the 1-2 setup.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:40 AM   #20
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I got a 97 ss t56 rebuild and since the rebuild my 5th gear started grinding going into 5th and It wouldnt let me down shift from 6th to 5th so took it back got a syncro replaced just reinstalled it this week and its noisier than before doesn't feel as smooth as before the rebuild could be due to my competition clutch stg 2 or maybe I need to replace the slave idk but maybe ill swap my clutch for a oem one.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:41 AM   #21
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Shifts fine but I feel like a vibration on clutch pedal a weird feeling hard to explain.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:41 AM   #22
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I can try posting pictures of 1/2 tomorrow and the bearings for good measure.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:00 PM   #23
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Here is a picture of 1st, the tapered bearing, and its blocker
Attached Thumbnails
T56 grinding in every gear-1stgear.jpg   T56 grinding in every gear-blockerring.jpg   T56 grinding in every gear-tapperbearing.jpg  
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:44 PM   #24
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Alright, so I checked the main shaft and counter shaft shims.
I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. main shaft is the long one and counter shaft is the small one right?

the main shaft seemed to have .040 end play and a .047 shim
the counter shaft seemed to have .034 end play and a .034 shim

that doesn't really seem right at all to me if the counter shaft is suppose to have .003 pre-load and the main shaft should have .002 end play to none (I'm going to give it .001 pre-load)
I'm wondering if thats why I was having problems shifting when the transmission was warm? maybe it also contributed to the noise?
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:37 PM   #25
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

.03 countershaft and .01 mainshaft preloads will be fine.

.07 would be too much but wasn't it worse when cold?
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:37 AM   #26
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

yeah, 1/2 was fine when it was cold. This transmission doesn't make any sense to me.
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:23 PM   #27
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

It kind of makes sense. 1, 2, and 3 would be the only ones that you would notice it on and 1-2 has a lot of friction surface area on the double cones and could probably overcome it. 4th would work awesome if the mainshaft shim was too tight.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:53 PM   #28
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I bought the new reverse synchro /blocker, got a steel 3/4 fork, i got the billet keys for 1/2 and 3/4. I also got a shim kit and new snap rings. I also got new fork pads since the reverse one fell apart. hopefully this thing will be great when i put it back together.
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:35 AM   #29
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

i re-measured the play on the counter and mainshaft several times. I actually had .032 on the counter, but i got the mainshaft correct.
I went with .035 on the counter and .044 on the main.
the mainshaft doesn't move side to side at all anymore and everything spins really nice so I'm getting my hopes up.

I checked the end play with out the gears on the main shaft, just the bearings. And I put 4 bolts on the face and torqued them. Thats the correct way to do it, right?

Last edited by RedneckNo4; 06-20-2014 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:41 PM   #30
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

Yes, the maindrive plus mainshaft bearings are gear-independent. The rear brg. used as a thrust washer for 1st doesn't matter.

4 torqued, yes.
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:55 PM   #31
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

I finally got the transmission in the car. the chatter -ish sound is completely gone. I added another muffler and a glasspack so my exhaust is actually pretty quiet, i can hear almost every creak and clunk now.

Sadly after a few laps around the block I couldn't get in gear again, now its really every gear though. Slightly different though, if i get to a stop in first and put it in neutral i can get back into first, so thats a little better. Reverse is a huge pain when it wont go into gear though. hopefully I'll really only need it with the transmission a bit cool though.

my only thought would be maybe better transmission fluid?

Maybe next year i'll have finish line transmission have a look, I'll probably drive it anyway.
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:19 AM   #32
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

i guess i wont be driving it, 5th worked once, 6th worked for a little while, i drove it maybe 10 miles...

both 5th and 6th will be fine when i put them in as long as i'm coasting, as soon as i put any power to them they just squeal and do nothing, I'm assuming the main shaft and 5/6 gear are toast, i'd have been better off never opening it up since they did kinda work before.
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:19 PM   #33
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Re: T56 grinding in every gear

hey guys new here. I have a 2000 trans am and the gears make a little grind noise when i shift into 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Anyone know what this could be? is it internal or should i just try the drill mod?
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