this thing has been a headache from the start but now my problem is its all back to gether and wont shift out of reverse not spin. however if I loosen the tail shaft bolts and give it a tiny bit of space itll spin freely (while in reverse)

so 2 questions, why is it doing this and how do I get the roll pin back out since its stuck in reverse.


ps if anyone in MI near royal oak/Detroit wants to come over and help me rebuild this dam thing for a little bit of cash id really appreciate it, maybe explain to me why I have so many extra washer things.

 

Did you download the assembly manual from Tremec's web sight? If you didn't then it might explain a few things for you.

 

either you go the preload to tight, and or your shift linkage in the top of the casing wasnt aligned properly, the best way to do the rebuild is to either lay out every peace in order in a row on a towel, or put it all on a rod in order so you just go peace buy piece the same way it came apart... but a huge thing with this box is the preload shims .. too tight and it will kill itself or at the very least.. lock up.. or .. too loose and it will chatter and be very noisy and eventualy kill itself also.. the preload shims are in the input shaft cone, behing the bearing... also make sure the output shaft bearing is seating properly because it uses the tail cone to hold it in place

 

The roll-pin is 3/16.
Go ahead and remove the tailhousing to get it out.

Alternately, if you thread a screw into one that's not totally buried, you can tap or yank it out. Just did that on a T56. Or, you can drill it out. Just did that on a TR6060 that had two roll-pins in the forward position retaining the block to the main shift rail.

 

ya got the manual and followed the directions, some how ended up with a bunch of extra ****

hmm preload to tight... I stuck 2 shims in there instead of the one I took out. and im pretty sure I got the shift linkage right. by output shaft, that's the one with the synchros and gears right? bc if so the rear bearing cap does keep popping out and I was wondering how to stop that. bc I fear the cap would fall and hit the 5th gear and get tore up.

I cant remove the tail housing till I take off the offset lever which is held in by the roll pin. but the screw idea might work not sure if I have a screw that small.

 

If you remove the bolts in the tail housing and remove the bolts in the top cover can you move things around enough to get the pin out?

 

ill try tomorrow but I doubt it with the output shaft going all the way though.

the problem I have is it wont shift out of reverse.

 

Probably when you put the cover on, one of the forks is turned sideways; and it's shifted into 2 gears at the same time as a result.

When in doubt, check my signature.

 

My bet would be top cover.

 

yup and to do that, the roll pin needs to be knocked out with a pinch, then the tail cone comes off, then after that, the top cover can come off.. did that ball bvearing and spring under the shifter cup go it correctly?

 

it went in correctly yes.

something im not understanding is why its locked up when the tail cone bolted to spec but when loosen and given like a cm of space it will turn freely.

as for beening stuck in reverse im figuring that's the top plate, maybe the reverse fork didn't line up with the top cover

 

I had a similar issue the top cover was not put together 100% correctly.

 

Get the interlock set up so 1-4 are in neutral and slide the ring part into the groove of the rev. Lever. Sideways.

 

im going to gues that the preload washers arent set right, its hard to say without sitting infront of it

 

update got the f***ing thing off! lucky for me the roll pin snapped off in the shift rod (no damage appears to happen to anything else)

I now part (if not all) of the reason it wouldn't shift, the roll pin in the top cover was to long! was sticking out on a side, figuring that had something to do with it. only one gear was engaged and that was reverse.

new problem, it appears as if the top cover isn't lining up properly. the shift umm lever assembly (? what the book calls it) is only between the 3-4 fork selector while the 1-2 fork selector is on the metal u shape thing that the shift lever assembly is in. and turning it or moving the rod doesn't line them up. the roll pin is the correct length and installed.

ideas?

 

how do I now they are in neutral? and does the rev. lever go between the top cover and 3-4 selector?

 

Looks like your rollpin is on the wrong side. Double check but I think your center section is backwards.


Here is a pic from my rebuild and it shifts perfect

 

Here this may help

http://www.justanswer.com/ford/0rgpj...orks-1991.html

 

yep roll pin was backwards thanks!


im dumb but I figured it out.

also the reason is locked up was bc the washer I installed on the counter shaft was to thick, but seeing as how the kit didn't come with one, and one wasn't took off when tore down, none was put back, just the snap ring.

it all now spins freely and shifts smoothly. but now I just got one question...where the hell do these parts go?

 

Tanged thrust washer (biggest one) goes in front of the countergear.

The Torringtom and its little cup-like race go between the clutch gear and the mainshaft.

The washer with the oil grooves goes on the mainshaft between a coupla the gears.

The big thick washer with the small hole goes behind 5th gear.

The snap ring looks like one of the ones that go on the rearward part of the mainshaft. There's a coupla those. Or possibly, on the back end of the countergear, after the rear bearing and thrust washer but before the 5th drive gear.

The other 2 washers look like thrust washers that go on the mainshaft somewhere. There's several such.

If you left all that stuff out of that trans, you won't get far before you'll be tearing it down again; and likely replacing some of the REALLY BIG AND $$$$ parts. I'd recommend figuring out what's been left out and taking care of it.

 

well that's the problem all the parts look different then the instructions and are to big/small for the places that are were suppose to go.

sigh ill take the dam thing apart... again.

sofakingdom when I take it apart can I have you id the parts? since you seem to now a lot more then me lol.

 

You can try; no guarantees though.

Lay em out in the order you took em out. Match em in order to the blowups in the manual.

 

ok ill try. and I did do that... thus is why I have extras lmao.

 

ok so heres the rebuild kit I got that im having trouble with i.d. if anyone can id these parts and location for me please I will be forever grateful.

now the parts I already now are

all the big important stuff like blocker rings, bearings etc

the oiling funnel, inserts, steel cap, needle bearings, snap rings. roll pin, shims, the washer that has a little tooth sticking out on the inside.

as for the washers... well I tried to look at the pictures and compare the washers but the ones that look close were to big or to small or I was unsure of, thus is why I ended up with so much extra.

but thanks to sofakingdom I now where some of these go.

Tanged thrust washer (biggest one) goes in front of the countergear, that would be number 104

The Torringtom and its little cup-like race go between the clutch gear and the mainshaft, numbers 64 and 65, or is it 38-39?

The washer with the oil grooves goes on the mainshaft between a couple the gears, any ideas on what number?

The big thick washer with the small hole goes behind 5th gear... so number 69?

I did get some more washers then listed >.> must of been the rebuild kit part but the Tanged thrust washer, wheres the 2nd one go?

and the bigger of the two Torringtom, which does not have a cap like race, wheres the go? possablly 64 or 65?

again thanks everyone for the help. the t-5 diagram is the same pic from the rebuild manual I got that I see.

p.s. numbers 63 and 71 are both roller/needle bearing, 63, the roller bearings, goes into the end of the input shaft that the main shaft sits in however 71...the needle bearings, these needle bearings are suppose to go under a gear? but when I took that gear off there was no room under the gear nor was there needle bearings. the id tag puts this trans as a 1986 nwc from a 305 carbed firebird.

 

well according to the manual I have all the washers/spacers but now I need to now which thrust washer is which, that my biggest problem atm seeing as how everything that came in the kit is called a thrust washer according to the manual... hmm wonder if they have a book called thrust washers for dummies or how to rebuild a t5 for dummies

anywas 2 more questions. 1 why is there an oring on the reverse idler shaft? I mean seriously its not sealing anything or even stopping things from moving.
and the second is I found this poxy stuff? on the inside of the case between the counter shaft bearing and input shaft holes... should I be concerned?

 

If your case is cracked sell it for scrap

 

idk if it is I didn't put that stuff in there and from what I can tell that crack isn't all the way though, but I guess that answers my question

 

I can see the crack, toss the case out. Your only other option is to have it welded and hope none of the holes are oblonged.

 

f***

 

probley explains why it was leaking around the counter shaft bearing in the front

 

Yup, look on ebay for a used case, have it welded OR call Geforce and see if their much stronger aftermarket case will fit.

 

Yup, scrap the case

 

im on ebay looking, will need the washers id still though, for when I get the case, if anyone wants to chip in on that problem.

 

I would call these guys and see what they can help with

You can also contact us by mail or phone using the information below:

G-Force Transmissions
150 N. Grant Street
Cleona, PA 17042
(717) 202-8367
Fax(717) 202-8373

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/contactus.asp

 

All it does is keep the gear from making a funky rattling noise (leave it out and you'll know right away what I'm talking about)

64 & 65

That's 69 if memory serves

38

39; 38 is its race

AFAIK that bearing doesn't exist in the vast majority of 1st design T-5s; that being one of the "improvements", mostly directed toward CAFE, in the 2nd design. Having rollers under 1st reduces its friction while it's spinning wildly around the shaft in 4th & 5th.

It's epoxy. No you shouldn't be "concerned"; you should be something more like "verified". "Verified" that the case is no good. All that does, is tell you that the PO ALREADY KNEW that the transmission was FORNICATED when he sold it, because that's what he did to try to fix the crack that shows up on the other side of that surface of the case. I seem to remember telling somebody a month or 2 ago about a T-5 they had just bought or came in a car they just bought, that I told em was no good, and the way it was OBVIOUS was because the PO had put various hack jobs and p***er tracks all over it; maybe it was you? Damn shame that there's people in the world that would stoop so low as to screw their paying customer that way; but that's the way it is unfortunately.

Your case is garbage. I cannot begin to guess how many times I've told people on this board, maybe even you, that that's the thing that fails, and inevitably takes all the moving parts with it. Go to the junkyard or cl or the classifieds on this site and get a 6-cyl trans. Case won't be as tore up as a V8 but is otherwise the same. You gotta have rocks in your head to BUY a NEW one of those. That's just throwing HUGE good money after bad. If that was the only choice, it'd be time to chalk up whatever you've already put into that T-5 as an installment on your dumba$$ tax for this year, and find a T-56 instead of fooling around any further with that thing you've got there.

 

sweet. thanks a ton.

and no this is the 1st time ive said something about the case and leaking but thanks for the input. if I do have to more money into it I will get a t56 instead. but a v6 case will work that is good news for me, those seem to be dime a dozen.

thought v6 t5s cant handle a v8 t5... I guess the only difference is the gears and not the case then? (always thought the case was part of it)

 

Yes, case is the same; gearset (input, counter, 1-4) are what's different.

 

Right: all you want is the case, which is the same; maybe a few little bits of nothing here and there like shifter forks or sleeves or anything else like that that's the same but might be in better shape than whatever yours is; and maybe, the opportunity to take one apart that hasn't already been molested, so you can see how it was ACTUALLY put together originally.

 

that alone would probley be worth it. wonder if I would of had this much trouble if it was done correctly... to think of it that has been the story of my car! lmao o well its what gives my car personality.

well I believe I have everything now so thanks a lot everyone, until the next problem I have

edit: is the fox body case the same to?

 

No, the Ford trans/bell bolt pattern is taller and narrower than the "Muncie" pattern on the third-gen T5.

 

ofcourse it is, so then Im going to assume the case from a chevy astro van that has a "ford" bolt pattern will also not work. man our cars are picky. so I need a case from another 3rd pretty much, v6 or v8 though. thanks jmd.

s10 main cases wont work eighter will it?

 

Early S10 might be Muncie pattern. If it is, a T4 4 speed case would work for your NWC too.

By the early 90s they were definitely Ford pattern.

 

I thought only the 3.8s were the ford pattern.

 

I know an S10 owner who bought a 91 off the original owner. It's a 2.8 / 5 spd truck originally and has the Ford pattern.

And there's a 1352-193 T5 on eBay the seller says is from a 91 2.5L / 5spd truck that has the Muncie pattern.

In short: Do your homework and don't buy w/out pictures.

 

o I am that's why im here asking... just got in a fight with an ebay seller saying his 86 fox body case will fit "all t-5 cases, including all GM" o well some ppl who are let into this world should just be shot instead.

hmm I must find this case! I found a 13-52-065-916, its a nwc looks like itll work.

I checked again but didn't find the case you where talking about, might be out of my price range haha but I did however find this case, looks like it works. http://www.ebay.com/itm/S10-Chevy-T5-transmission-Case-Borg-Warner-5-speed-GMC-S15-1982-1986-19-89-1991-/360670748682?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f9a6e00a&vxp=mtr#shId

 

ask them to mic. the countershaft race bore to verify it's not out of round.

 

question sent. I take it this case will work if the bore is good?

 

What you'd do is look at the casting number on your case to verify.
Then make sure the bolt pattern up front is the same.

 

well the casting number is 13-52-065-916
the bolt pattern looks the same
he responded with this about the mic. "My inside mic wouldn't go that small so I used a dial caliper measuring up down & side to side. I got 2.250 inches front and rear"

lmao my casting number on my case is 13-52-65-913

 

That case is for a 2nd design T-5; won't fit yours if it's a 1st design as it sounds like it is.

Needs to be from about 87 or earlier.