Hi All (700R4 in 1985 305 camaro)
If I remove all of the emissions stuff, I don't think the computer is working cause with most sensors disconnected I get no engine light and my mechanic friend hooked up a code reader and it said "no data found" Plus all this stuff is rusted to **** and may not be working anyway. (trying to clean up engine bay-what a mess)

Question 1: can I drive around town (along way away from that) or on short highway trips AND leave the trans in 3rd gear (1:1 direct drive/ 3:08 gear) do I need to worry about burning up the trans?? _ From what I've been reading it is mainly a 4th gear (overdrive) issue. I drive slow at my age

Question 2: From info received, it appears that I just need a non computer carb and vac advance HEI distr to do away with all emissions for engine running purposes?
thanks for your help

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...formation.html

Do you have fuel injection or a carb.....?

Burning up the trans on early T700's is a convertor lockup (TCC ) problem ; not related to what gear you are driving in

Emissions equipment can be removed if you have a computer or not.

What you mention is required when converting from EFI to a carb ; a completely different scenario
Going to a carb ( no computer ) means you have no convertor lockup which gives you a problem with the trans heat unless you come up
with some means of controlling the lockup

 

Thank you for replying "Vetteoz" Unfortunately I really do not understand auto transmissions and this issue is well beyond my pay grade with the tcc and related emissions controlling that-must of took more than 1 rocket scientist.

However, these are some of the replies from tcc needed or not thread and I have viewed others which kinda say that 4th gear is the big issue and longer trips not city driving at 30-45-mph and short trips on the highway-so can you explain the "basic" issue a little more so I may understand why this is so vitally important AND WHY IT DOESN'T WORK WITHOUT THE COMPUTER-AS THE COMPUTER CAN GO BAD OR OTHER SENSORS THAT TCC MUST LOOK AT TO PERFORM WHATEVER IT DOES.

Thank you - here are some of the replies:

Re: 700r4 TCI lockup need it or no??
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Have been daily driving mine for years with no TCC lockup, with no problems. Though that drive only includes about 10 mins of OD driving, if traffic's good.

By all accounts I've read, if you're doing a long trip it should be working, or the trans may overheat and reduce it's life in the long term. Gets a little better fuel economy too.

having the converter constantly slipping and not locked up will heat the tranny fluid more than when its locked up. If you get a higher stall converter to match that performance engine, then I would advise a lockup kit if you value your tranny life
I agree. I didn't see high temperatures running without lockup, but it definitely made the car not feel as mushy after I did put in the lockup. I drove few hundred miles without lockup. I drive mostly 20-25 mile city/highway each way and never saw higher than 165* but I use a large cooler.
Fireturd350 is right a few time forgetting to unlock the converter and you won't have to worrie about it. When my customers ask what to use I tell them the painless lock up kit. It has everything and is easy to install and it also works.http://static.summitracing.com/globa.../prf-60109.pdf Not to mention if you get in traffic and have to do a sudden stop and forget to unlock the converter it could push you into the car in front of you.
Hope that this helps
I made an experimental switch box for playing with tcc lockup. Decided a while ago to get my lockup working (engine's been swapped, no computer) - wanted to see exactly what options were really necessary.

I can have tcc off, locked in 2,3,OD, or OD only. Conclusions so far:

* Definely in OD only. Won't come to a stop without lugging badly or stalling, before trans goes back to 1st or N.

* Absolutely needs the brake unlock as mentioned above.

* Really needs the vacuum unlock, otherwise light throttle OD overtaking is not nice. Having trouble sourcing a vac switch locally, but don't want to spend the hundreds of dollar for the Painless kit just to get this. Thinking maybe I can use a old map sensor with an appropriate driver circuit.

* Really needs the underspeed unlock as well, or engine will lug too much at lower rpms in OD. Unlock under about 70 kph would feel about right.

* You really want all this controlled automatically - no fun to keep switching endlessly by hand, you'll just end up leaving it off pretty quick.

As I understand it from what I've read, the computer normally provides for all these conditions, as well as monitoring a tps percentage for unlock. After experimenting, I would say it's all necessary for good behaviour.

 

Using 4th gear is related to fuel economy more than anything.
Your trans has a overdrive gear for fuel economy ; earlier 3 speed autos did not and they didn't " burn up " .

However, the slower the trans turns over ,the less heat it generates which is why 4th gear is recommended for extended driving.
Heat kills trans.

With a computer here are no sensors as such.
Under the right ( programmed ) conditions and speed, the engine computer simply locks up the convertor by putting power through a solenoid.
Something you can do yourself with a manual switch on the dash if you have no computer.

Early cars / trucks did not have a computer that controlled the TCC;it was done with a variety of switches.
There are several means , both auto and manual ,of controlling the convertor lockup once the computer control is gone.

 

Thanks guys-I've been reading all I can on this and in my recently purchased GM 1985 camaro shop manual (3" thick and half of it on emissions crap. Says "The EMC controls the TCC apply solenoid by looking at several sensors: Vehicle speed sensor, Coolant temp sensor, Throttle position sensor, Gear select switch, and brake switch.

I won't have coolant sensor or TPS (at least) so I guess I'll have to see how it drives, whenever that may be, as I have tons of work to do.

Now understanding a little better, it seems to me (and I could be wrong) that driving short trips at 25 to 40 mph with stop lights all over the place, and an occasional trip to a car show 20 miles away should not be a problem with overheating the trans. When driving around town you barely get into 3rd gear before you have to stop for something. This will only periodically be driven and is a stock 305, no HP stuff.

It does seem that the manual switch option is not a good one for around town driving and god forbid having to explain its use if you let a friend or daughter drive the car. So if i ever do find the need for the TCC fix, what is the best, easiest to install, and cheapest solution out there now, without any manual toggling.
Thanks for all of your inputs

 

TCI sells a kit for automatic TCC control without computer. It uses a vacuum switch to unlock the converter on throttle opening. The switch and thus the converter unlock point is adjustable. Pressure switch(es) in the valve body determine whether you get lock up in 4th only or in 3rd and 4th. I am installing a 3,500 stall converter and plan to have lock up in 3rd and 4th since I cruise in 3rd under 60mph.

 

Once the ECM is gone you have no lockup , regardless of what sensors you have on the engine or not

Get a 4th gear switch installed in the trans ; trans will lockup automatically any time it goes into 4th gear. Install and forget

Details here
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...c-control.html