This stemmed from Hot Rod doing that 1200-horse engine, and from my own success with the full-floater Dana 60 from a pickup truck under my old '84 Trans Am. That swap was so easy! But it was heavy and not worth it.
So, you guys doing Ford 8.8" swaps are on the right track, but not going quite far enough. Any of you know about the second-generation Ford Lightning?
The Sterling 9.75" axle might be exactly what we need.
You can get a used one from most any '97-'10 F150 HD, so they're readily available.
The cost is the same as an 8.8" in all the yards around me. Around $ 120.
The 9.75 has the same ring gear size as the Dana 60 and the Strange S-60.
The 9.75 has thin-wall axle tubes, by pickup truck standards, so less excess weight for us.
The 9.75 has 34-spline axle shafts standard, all years.
The 9.75 has several differential options from the aftermarket
The 9.75 is cheaper and stronger than any aftermarket 9.0" Ford
The 9.75 is cheaper than the Strange S-60
The 9.75 often comes with disc brakes and a limited slip differential.
The 9.75 is rated to carry the entire weight of our cars, so wheelies won't break it.
The 9.75 was offered i 3 lug patterns, including 5 on 135.
This matters because it makes re-drilling to 5 on 4.75" easier.
For wheels your best bet is a 17" x 9.5" with a + 56 mm positive offset.
You would still need to have the shafts lathed, to fit your rotor hats and your wheels.
But the 9.75 is a c-clip design, with no eliminator kits offered.
And the thing that got my attention to begin with:
The 9.75 offers 3.08:1 gearing that the S-60 does not!
And for a 1200-horse build on a tight budget, I'd combine the 3.08:1 9.75" with a 4L80E, a apir of 19" x 10" wheels with a + 65 mm positive offset, and a pair of Kumho Ecsta LE Sport 275/40(Y)R19 tires, all in the rear. Up front, the cheapest (Y) -rated tires would be a pair of 245/45R17 Michelin Pilot Super Sports.
Goodyear Eagle Land Speed drive-axle tires only come in a 28x10-15 and that means no fitting big brakes, plus these 275s have slightly more tread width with slightly less overall diameter. The Land Speeds are rated to 300 MPH, but a rating of (Y) means anything over 186.
In a prepped Trans Am, 1200 horses plus nitrous might get you to 280 if you get the gearing perfect and no wind, so here's the end of my thoughts for today.

 

You are leaving one thing out. How do you plan on attaching the torque arm? The S60 is already set up for a bolt on torque arm.

 

Haven't you read my FF D60 swap thread? Haven't you read any of the Ford 8.8" swap threads? For the $ 2,300.00 saved, surely something can be rigged up by absolutely anyone. I'll bet competent shops would charge less. I spent less than $ 5 to attach the torque arm to my Dana 60. This should be similar. Besides, you can't 3.08:1 an S-60 at any price.

 

Sorry, I forgot to read who this thread was started by. I do that a lot. I had it in my mind that this was one of the newbees. Yea, I know how it's been done, I just wasn't paying attention. Most people don't have the skills to make a torque arm bracket that will hold up to much torque. It that case they should pay the money for a bolt in rear end instead of taking a chance of trashing their car and getting someone hurt. The 9 inch Ford and 8 3/4 Chrysler rear ends are easier to swap because you can weld directly to the housing, but the rear ends with a cast iron center are much harder because welding on them is very difficult.

 

Pics?

 

Valid points. Not sure I'd trust a 9" Ford with 1200 horses. On the salt the loss of traction is more likely, but on pavement with drag radials or good autocross tires, even the best 9.0" is likely to fail, in my mind.

 

Maybe come spring I'll try to turn my idea into reality. For now I have no car at all, just a work truck.

 

Nobody asked, but maybe nobody knows to ask? 1200 HP is useless for anything but top speed, unless you build a dedicated drag car on 33" x 17" slicks.
Top speed gearing; Overdrive is for fine tuning, not making up for 4.56:1 gears. Why? Driveshaft speed.
If you're traction limited, then a 2.47:1-geared 9" Ford may be great. But if you're traction limited, then you may well find more MPH by adding drag in the form of downforce. This may compromise your top speed with traction, but if testing in Germany isn't as practical as testing on the salt, then you should easily be able to see for yourself why my proposal is laid out correctly.
I hope some few learn something interesting, which is why I'm adding this.

 

Tell this to the guys who race in hot rods drag week.

 

Their "cars" are stripped-out and weigh about 2500# at most. In which case you don't need a third-gen. If you're building something to enjoy for more than just 9 seconds at a time, more than just 5 minutes per year, then by the time you add the cage and fire-supression and 'chute to all the comfy luxuries, then you're well over 2 tons.

 

Guess you missed the car that won last year.
A 3rd gen firebird
race weight 3690lbs
over 1000hp
pulled a trailer

 

I dont seem to have a problem with 1200 on the street, just have to use 3rd gear and over 55 mph. Guys have hooked more on 235-275 series radials at 3200-3400 lb rides. I am on 305/19's, All thru a small 12 bolt, a 9" is more than enough. At 9.75" how wide is the center section of the housing? Wont that require serious clearancing if the body? My 12 bolt and torque arm already hit the body and have self clearanced now

 

I was hoping for a new axle build thread



Good luck with that

FWIW, stock brakes are strait up scary after trapping 99 in the 1/8th. I cant imagine slowing down from 200 on them

"She'll pull more than she'll stop" comes to mind

 

Just ordered a pair of 19" x 10" wheels for this. Going to try it with redrilling the axles to match these wheels. I'm doing it this way for 2 main reasons. One, the wheels are on sale for $ 50 each, and two, they are a positive offset by 68 mm. So these should tuck the tires under the stock bodywork, with a little rolling the inner edges, even on such a wide axle assembly.
I guess most of you would go with a 275/30, for the same diameter as a 245/50R16 that came on these cars, but I think the wheelwells look too empty, even with 315/35R17s, so I'm going with 275/35s. It's the tire height, more than the width. Unless the test fit shows space for having the wheels widened. Then a 325/30 seems more appropriate to the power this axle can survive. Weldcraft would be my choice, if there's space.
But getting it rolling comes before optimizing.

 

You'll be seeing a new axle build thread. I'm just slow. Frustratingly so.
And on the street, more brakes are needed, as you say. I've given up on the salt, I've started making arrangements to tun at TRC in Ohio.
For the initial bit, I'll be keeping the F150 rear stock discs. Just gotta get the rotors redrilled to the Chevy pattern when the axleshafts get done.
And as an aside, I realize I'll need to have the axleshaft outer pilots lathed to fit through the centerbore of my 'vette wheels.

 

Went axle hunting, I want the early version with smaller wheel bearings, 1.62" versus 1.71", for less un-necessary weight. Didn't find any. Early versions are more likely to be either 5 lug or 7 lug, depending on F150HD or F250 non-HD. Also didn't find any with the 3.08:1 gears I want. May have to invest $ 170 for a new set.

 

So now there's another third-gen to replace the '84 T/A?
And that overkill hitch from it is no regret in my Camaro.
I'm curious to see your torque arm design for this.
Thanks much.

 

Super Duty F250s are 8 lug, HD F150s are 7 lug, and the VERY rare non SD F250s are 7 lug. You want to look for 5.4L 97-classic 04 F150 and pre-03 Exp/Nav for the 5 lug.

You won't save weight with the 9.75" vs a Dana 60.

Torque arm fabrication will be far more difficult than the Dana 60 due to Ford's huge yoke. The housing is huge and has bracing in all the wrong spots.

A 9" will take far more power at a heavier weight than what you are contemplating. However it won't do it with a stock housing or center section.

 

I've never seen anything with 7 lug axles.

 

lol this thread is a train wreck.
the ford 9" is in many many many 3k+lb cars making waaay over 1,000hp.
im thinking a rearend out of a lightning/harley truck is going to run you well over a grand, and that puts it out of "budget swap" status considering you will need all custom mounts and such. strong i would assume, but i would also think its still gonna be heavy.
lots of work, not much savings, not any weight break, imo.

 

First, a '90-'92 hardtop 'bird isn't easy to score, but I'm not letting that stop me. Second, I had clearance after adding a torque arm to a Dana 60, so this should work. Third, I agree this is heavier than a Strange S60, which costs fully 20 times as much, but this is lighter than a Dana 60, mostly due to thinner tubes. Fourth, this doesn't need to come from a Lightning or a Harley-edition, so the cost is $118 at my favorite yard. Including tax, calipers, and the core charge. Fifth, there's no such thing as an equally strong nine inch at any price, the nine's pinion shaft is smaller than your 7.5s. This is at least half again as big. Otherwise, a max effort 9-inch is still 20 times the price. There's no alternative for this strength, price, and availability combination. anything else you find will be from a dually, so not usable. I would consider the Mopar 9.25, but it can't go past 31 spline, and that is the weak link in those. At least they are 12-bolt, and stronger than any 30-spline Chevrolet 12-bolt.

 

New light duty (1/2 ton) Ford E series vans have 7 lugs. I had to triple count them to fully believe it when I first saw it.

 

9" rears are supporting more than 1500whp in cars capable of 6 and 7 second quarter mile ETs. They're more than strong enough.

HD F150s... Just another one of Ford's goofy ideas

 

Years ago I had an idea of using the GM 9.5 14 bolt rear end in some 1st and 2nd gen Camaros that needed something a little stronger than the 12 bolt. I never got around to building any, but the 9.5 uses 33 spline axles, has an Eaton Posi available, has a lot of gear ratios available and is easy to find. Some people just don't like the idea of using a Ford rear end in their Chevy. I don't know how the 9.5 would fit in a 3rd gen due to it's size.

 

Actually the E-250 have 7 lug as well that is what our fleet has been replaced with. Believe you have a get a 1 ton to get to get 8 lug now.

 

are you counting the lugs on the hub caps? because those are indeed 7 lugs. pop that off and count the lugs on the actual wheel. we have fleet vans where i work, and i have noticed the 7 lug hubcaps.

 

i have an 11.5" aam rearend out of a chassis cab duramax if you are interested. weighs 550lb. not much out there stronger than that.

 

Childs play!

Any serious hotrodder knows 2.5 ton Rockwells are the way to go! 2 speed rear end, better than am od tranny!

 

There are 9-inch gears with larger pinion shafts, but none around 3.08:1, so you're still missing the boat. And if you do go the route you propose, you're still 20 times the price, so on that aspect you again miss the boat. I'm finished responding to you. Go do your own thread.

 

The problem with the GM 9.5" is the tubes are more than twice as thick as the 9.75, and that's for weight-carrying reasons. Plus the gearing only goes down to 3.23:1 for the 9.5, if you can find it. I've seen pics, not photoshopped, of a 9.5 done for an early Camaro.

 

Which is why the 9.75 instead of Anything heavier. Trying to stay light here.

 

Weldcrap wants $ 240 per wheel to widen cast 19s even 1 inch, which is extremely excessive. And here I was considering having them do some 17x8.5s out to 11.5s for some Toyo Proxes TQ 345/40R17 drag radials, without too much frontspacing. But to "fit" 355s without minitubs, as I was considering, this would have needed spacers, so I must conclude it better to just save these 10s and order some 12s at $ 184 each. Either way, anything more than 315s won't tuck anyway, so I'm going to have a problem.
These tens should mount a pair of 315/40R19s for TRC.
I found an early small-bearing 9.75" 5-lug, but with 3.55:1 and drums. If it's a Traction-Lock, and if I can get the price under $ 100, then I'll take it. I'll let them keep the gears and drums.

 

The pinion diameter isn't the weak point.

 

I've seen 9 inch Fords with the pinion shaft twisted off. I saw one do it last year at Hot Rod Drag Week in Bowling Green.

 

The guy refused to take less than $150, and it wasn't Traction-Lok. I'll be back when I have pics of any aspect of this idea becoming reality.

 

who twisted one off? how fast was the car? i know for a fact you can go 1.20 60's or quicker with a standard type 9" ring/pinion. one thing that was never brought up in this discussion was the additional pinion support bearing the ford 9" has that these other rears dont. it has a bearing on both sides of the pinion geared portion to support it.

 

how long do you think it would take to cut the wheel, bevel it for the weld, machine/ready the spacer, and then weld it back together?
i would figure at least around 2 or 3 hours per wheel by the time its all said and done. if their shop labor rate was around 100/hour...

 

A guy with a black Nova twisted one off on the starting line at Beech Bend last year on day 1 of Drag Week. If you go to youtube you might find it. I've got pictures of the drive shaft and the pinion housing with the broken pinion shaft in them.

 

didnt find that one, but i found a guy with a 7 second 4,060lb monte carlo that broke a ring and pinion in 2013.... said he had lots of transmission problems, but on that particular pass the ring/pinion let go. "thats the first time that happened". looks to be a ford 9" under there.


i've been enjoying the live feed this year!

 

I'd like to see someone Get a pair of 19" Kumho Ecsta LE Sport's hook hard enough to break a 9" pinion!