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Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

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Old Mar 21, 2020 | 11:55 AM
  #1  
zupta82's Avatar
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Ok I think I am going in circles here and I think the Atsg manual has some flaws. I have enclosed some handwritten measurements and a pic from the atsg manual. I’m hearing the same crap from everyone in the industry, it appears that as long as I have a 700r4 of a certain year range this pump kit should work fine. Hopefully you guys can read my hand writing. Also, I work in the engineering field and getting things down to a consistent four digit accuracy with the vernier scale is very hard. I highly doubt that these mass produced kits sold everywhere are following this table in the atsg manual




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Old Mar 21, 2020 | 11:59 AM
  #2  
zupta82's Avatar
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Just by tightening things up you can move things by 1/10 thousand of an inch ???
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Old Mar 21, 2020 | 05:48 PM
  #3  
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From: Tracy, CA
Car: '87 IROC
Engine: LB9
Transmission: TH700R4
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

I had to draw a picture:



Per the book, your new rotor and new slide fall into two different size ranges. How much of a hassle is it to get a different rotor or slide? Does 0.0002" or 0.0003" matter that much in actual practice?

Hopefully, someone will chime in soon.

I assume that your mic doesn't have a ratchet or friction thimble?
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Old Mar 21, 2020 | 06:40 PM
  #4  
zupta82's Avatar
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Well l went ahead and assembled the parts. The pump body aluminum casting and the slide are very flush where the teflon seal slot rides, I then sandwiched the two halves with the alignment clamp and torqued it down and I can see a gap between the halves (light thru the other side). I’m thinking of reusing my old parts but I didn’t keep track of the old vanes and their position?? I’m about ready to go nuts😬
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Old Mar 21, 2020 | 06:46 PM
  #5  
zupta82's Avatar
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Yes I forgot to mention my mic does have a ratchet. I’m thinking new parts today are just terrible. It’s kind of a pain in the neck to send parts back when they don’t work. Everything is online and the people selling them usually don’t know anything, they just want the sale!!!
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Old Mar 22, 2020 | 01:02 AM
  #6  
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From: Tracy, CA
Car: '87 IROC
Engine: LB9
Transmission: TH700R4
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Originally Posted by zupta82
Yes I forgot to mention my mic does have a ratchet. I’m thinking new parts today are just terrible. It’s kind of a pain in the neck to send parts back when they don’t work. Everything is online and the people selling them usually don’t know anything, they just want the sale!!!
I bought the HD kit from Pro Built Automatics so I just took it for granted that all was good and stuffed it in the case. I went through the +300 photos I took when I rebuilt my 4L60E; the only things I measured were the clutch pack clearances, the selective washer for adjusting the input shaft end play and some of the hole diameters in the the new VB separator plate.

The most time consuming part of the project was cleaning out all the burnt clutch material from the reusable parts, case and valve body.
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Old Mar 22, 2020 | 09:06 AM
  #7  
zupta82's Avatar
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Here is a service manual that I came across I think it’s full of crap and risky procedures(ATRA 4L60 service manual)Do you think for a second that auto body sandpaper is perfectly consistent, metal is supposed to be honed on lapping film intended for metal. I wish I could find the old school chiltons manuals. The new ones are thin and incomplete and Haynes are not good either. Lastly, I’m having some problems attaching the manual as PDF try this link below.
https://www.uscars.biz/uscars/extras...Procedures.pdf
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Old Mar 22, 2020 | 11:32 AM
  #8  
zupta82's Avatar
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Anybody just want to talk in this Coronavirus war. I’m thinking just going with a new pump, it seems that the vanes ride on top of the aluminum really close almost like piston rings in a cylinder I’m guessing any imperfections between the vanes could cause a problem like blowby, after all air is a fluid. If I’m gonna do this I don’t want no “rebuilt” or “refurbished” garbage with just new guts and no re-machining
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Old Mar 22, 2020 | 08:04 PM
  #9  
zupta82's Avatar
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 239
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From: Utica NY
Car: 88 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:42 open diff
Re: Complete measurements of old and new pump parts

Ok by now I’m probably annoying the hell out of everyone. The reason why I could not sandwich the halves together tightly with no gap was the plastic retaining “snowflake” thing was not resting on the pocket side of the pump. I feel so stupid!!, also I took all the guts apart again to kind of get a feel for if the vanes are touching the the aluminum pocket. There is actually a clearance, maybe a couple of thousandths. The rotor spins very smoothly and there is no binding. Also, I hear that milling down the halves can mess up the clearances, Lastly I hear there is a way to pressure test the pumps
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