vorteciroc

I have never actually broken any of the spider-gears... just the side-gears that go on the axles.

I have never seen a Torsen differential for the 9-Bolt Diffs. That is cool to know!
I have to assume it is a "Helical-Gear type Differential".
Is it offered in a 31-Spline? ...or just the normal 28-Spline?

I would love to build another 9-Bolt the way I did last, but with a new Carrier if the Torsen units are available in the US.

8Mike9

And now ya trying to talk/type about HP. So I told you, you may not to read, but 3rd gens can and do come in at 3350.

So, explain what you have moved on from?

I see at the start it was a BW 9 bolt is best
Then, ragged on the guy about the HP his car made

Then said how much it weighed

Face it. you're just wrong on all accounts, shall I go on?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Please do. You make statements with no evidence. Continue to make my case for me. Did you even bother to READ the document I linked? I provided evidence - stamped by GM. Where's yours? You want me to take your word for it? Your word is as worthless to me as mine is to you.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yes - they are "available" via Australia. Here's my thread, and another from a fellow member:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...rg-warner.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...installed.html

So far as I know all the one's purchased so far are 28 spline, but it may be possible to get one in 31 spline. Mine is working great with 3.70 gears.

GD

8Mike9

Wonder boy, I bought an '89 IROCZ new, think you were still having your mom wipe up back then? Tell me otherwise. How about GIMF...that get you on the right track?

You went to a source that agreed with your stance, ya effed up...you should have read the fine print. Or just read everything, not just what suited you.

Like in the days gone past, how about a little Meat LOaf?

"What's it gonna be boy, what's it gonna be"?

my hemi

Funny guess his butt hurt we can afford to buy a strange rear
and not a junkyard gm 9 bolt.. and again car weighs with driver 3450 if you dont believe it I could careless I know it does..and im pretty happy with the end results so far with our dcar it still has more on the table...guess he is pissed his is a sled and didnt make the numbers he expected.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You both have the sentence structure, punctuation, and spelling of uneducated half-wits. Anyone reading this from the sidelines can tell who has a brain in this thread so it's not even necessary to point it out. Try proof reading for a change before you blindly stab buttons. You build cars the same way you type and almost certainly about as well as you speak in person. We are all quite sure of that.

I find it pretty amusing to keep poking you both. The two of you have been here 21 and 7 years respectively and had less than 30 posts "liked" by the community. I've been here for 3 and have 280. Yeah that's obviously because I don't know a darn thing isn't it? Guess that's also why I'm the one with the Dyno and the continuous flow of happy customers..... Because I absolutely don't know $hit. You keep on believing. LoL.

GD

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I don't.

84 z28

Anyone with a brain would have stopped arguing on the interwebs many posts ago, as for the liked posts I've been here 14 years and that button was nowhere around the majority of my tenure. On top of that there are plenty of people on this board that dont have a clue just as you have insinuated with my hemi and 8mike9, good chance those people are " liking " your posts so I'd keep your FB rep out of it.

my hemi

GD

You a dueche bag and if you truly own a business i.would hate to be your customer you sound like the biggest dick head on the planet..I really wish you would stay off my posts i wouldn't take your advice it you were the last person on this forum.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yep. That all seems to be true - I'm 100% good with all your statements in this post.

Your posts help no one. You are here to stroke your ego by validating a car you keep saying "I built for my wife" - which you manifestly built not a single bolt of yourself. You seem to need validation - which is a very childish behavior.... and that makes a lot of sense, since everything you type appears to need a grade school teacher to proof read it for you.

You have not posted ONE SINGLE helpful post in response to anyone that asks questions of this forum. Just a bunch of "Look at me! Aren't I grand for paying someone else to build my car!" Forgive me if I don't see you as an asset to this community.

GD

8Mike9

Now this is just uncalled for. Let me give you some background, may I? Aw, I will. I got my BS in Electronics in the early 80's, things dried up, and took Industrial Electronics in 2016. Can't recall my GPA in the 80's, but 3.85 just a few years back.

May I continue?...Thanks, I will. I use my mind to work out issues, and my hands to correct them. Posing a sentence is not anywhere near my work requirements, nor my real world experience.

I mean, I could have played at UTI and been a glorified grease monkey, but didn't need that education to have a piece of paper that I already know about.

Nice, you own a business, bet smog checks are the big ticket item, right? Sweet you can put in a real Dyno and play some...nice.

The rest of us just go on and go faster from experience. I don't need a DynoJet to tune a car, you may...Will the DJ tell you what size jets to run, power valve, etc, etc?...

Now as to HP and weight of the 3rd gen's, I saw your link, I also know a few things about it, do you? That refers to a dry weight...

Now, add in a few gallons of coolant, add 5 quarts of oil, add in power steering fluid, Got AC? Add the compressor weight too,...oh, need gas? Fill the tank.

Add accessories, the car I bought was a group 2 option, group 3 had more stuff on it. So go ahead English Major and try to insult those that actually know as opposed to those like you that think they know, we don't care. You've already seen a few replies about guys who had their car weighed.

Oh, let me correct you one more time (it's getting old...) you mentioned places that weigh and only look at the difference.

Mercy, that doesn't fly, every place that has a scale for commerce has to have it calibrated and checked. Tis the law, go ahead and look it up.

So lets take your example of the recycling place. I have a truck full of cans, I weigh 80K lbs, I have to pull over on a scale to be checked, and I weigh 88K lbs....what happens? I'll let you look it up. Oh, and yes, even in gravel pits the scales are calibrated and checked on a regular basis.

Ya ever wonder why you have to argue a point with several different people, wondering why THEY don't get it?

8Mike9

Let me add into your "liked post" thing", I was one of your 30. That said, I don't care about liked posts, as mentioned before that feature came around much after I was here ...Oh, do you want some education about TGO? The BB is started from (caught the tail end of the first one), or what we spent 2 or 3 years on a BB that refreshed every 24 hours? Then we all had to register in '99 and joked about our passwords?

In the early days, I could make a post and call myself "Google", or "Yahoo", anything I wanted, I could grab the name of anyone and make a goofy post just to have some fun.

But you're so educated, you probably know all that.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Regardless - he doesn't have any proof of weight. Says he has weighed it in the past - before the modified engine went in. With lighter heads, and lighter TC, and what else? It doesn't prove anything. He has no *current* weight on the car.

And even if he did - we both know he's not making 370 wheel. Several others have posted agreeing with something in the neighborhood of 320 wheel. It's likely slightly more than that. But it's still just academic without any dyno numbers, etc.

As for my DynoJet - here in Oregon smog checks are administrated exclusively by the state at state owned and operated facilities. Even if I wanted to (which I don't), it's not possible (and never has been) for me to be involved in that process. Also they pulled all the dyno's (which were 2WD) out of those facilities 20 years ago. They do an idle test and a 2500 rpm test with the car in neutral unless it's a 96 or newer - in which case they only check for codes. My DynoJet is an in-ground AWD 424-XLC-2 ($125,000 before installation) and is used exclusively for performance tuning. That's it's only purpose and it's only *possible* purpose in my state. And yes I OWN the Dyno. and the shop in which it resides. No banks, no mortgage.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I'm very familiar with automotive forums and BB's. I'm a member elsewhere on a different brand automotive forum (that also started as a BB) where I joined in about 1999 and have 22,500 posts. I'm not new to this game, regardless of what my join date here suggests.

In a former life I was a software engineer. Much like your own engineering degree. I was 52D in the US Army and a Generac technician. Built control panels for industrial equipment, and I have a rather well equipped machine shop in my garage. Trust me I'm not the n00b you seem to think I am..... but the OP in this thread is nothing like either of us. And you still need to brush up on your grammar, spelling, sentence structure, etc. Makes you look like a fool. You don't want that do you?

GD

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Your post deserves a like. That said. Hemi said he weighed the car and posted weight. I believe that weight. I weighed mine at the track and round about caculated curb weight without the Procharger(1996). Personally I think calculating curb weight is pointless. The car cannot do anything without a driver, hence weight added. I belive his statement on weight. I posted a weight that was within believability. 3860 Procharger P600B kit 100lbs, me 200lbs, billet center line wheels and oh I forgot mac subframes. So I'm within the realm of Hemis statement. There is no way a thirdgen camaro weighs what was said unless it has no fluids and maybe a v6. With all that said. He runs 12.3 at 109. Na 9.8 comp, a lpe 219 cam first intake and vette heads ported. In the mid 90s that would have been mind boggling fast for a tpi street camaro. And still in 2020 its very very respectable for what it is. Why the constant berating of results and picking apart the end result? With all the builds on this forum over the years there are a handful of first intake dynos and even less actually track times, alot of bench racing, wishful thinking and desktop dynos though. Its not a brand new factory muscle car driven off the lot add drag radials and run low 11s and drink your latte on the way home deal. If a mid 300rwhp offends you enough to **** in someone else's plate, then maybe being on a site dedicated to a 30+ year old car and tech isn't the place for you. The car is fast for what it has. Thats about it.

8Mike9

No, I think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills, but feel free to go back and pull up my mistakes and tell me how they should have been worded.

I need some amusement and will be awaiting your reply.

8Mike9

Here's another thing, I'm sure with your superior reading and comprehension skills you just glossed over. The man said he had back issues, now maybe that's why he has to pay for labor to do things he'd like to do himself?

I mean I never knew it was a requirement to bore my block, align hone it, surface it, just to talk about my bottom end?

Can't believe it, someone has the want and desire to have a car their own way, then you want to put that guy down because "He didn't build it himself".

Mercy.

Peruse this too... https://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

That's just lack of motivation. There's always a way. Most of it you can sit down for anyway. There's always young kids around that want to learn and help. And there's tools to make the job easier - lifts, and hoists, etc. If you can sit and drive a car then you can wrench. The Vortec in my car was purchased from a gentleman that parts out full sized GM vehicles in his shop behind his house (in a suburb). He is paralyzed and wheelchair bound for life. No use of his legs at all. He loaded the engine in my truck with his forklift.

If you have the space for the tools and the desire to learn to use them. We all specialize to an extent. That's not what this is about though.

It's not entirely about that. It's a bigger picture. Part of which you likely haven't seen or aren't aware of. It's multiple threads on the same subject, posting over and over about essentially nothing other than for attention. Jumping in multiple threads I started about my FIRST manifold build just to post pictures of his with nothing to add to the discussion - just "Hey look what I paid to have built!!" It's his overall behavior as a member here. It is annoying.

GD

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

for what it is indeed its very promising for a shakedown pass, no logs no tuning and no shift point optimization

i simply stated it seems to be showing lower 300’s whp. After all said and done it may make more. But until we get numbers we dont know. Its just been my experience most cars tend to pick up several tenths and a few mph from shakedown passes. You find what it wants and workthe tune in.

that combo looks like it can get into the 11.90’s which for a long tube runner combo is pretty awesome.

if he ever wants more, just needs compression, bigger 195-200 cc heads that flow more and cam it up more. More converter and i bet it will go 11.50’s in good air

8Mike9

Are you for real? Bad back=lack of motivation?

The man surely doesn't sound like a Gold Chainer to me. Ya know, I've put together more machinery, engine and transmission, rearends that even you could imagine. When I get worn out and can't pick up a crankshaft off the floor, I still know what I want done. I'll tell the shop "do this", then come check it over with my stuff. I'd have no issue in 10-15 years (ya, I'm at that age group) to finally say "build this, put it in that, let me drive it".

Your attitude sucks, plain and simple.

I didn't see your quotes of my bad grammar, etc, still looking?

And was it from you I saw posted about how GM doesn't use the standard main bearings, etc? I'll educate you if that was you. I/e I'll school you on how to fit bearings, if you need more, I'll school you how to tell if your block actually needs to be align bored/honed, or if you can not have to spend the extra expense.

But you probably already know all that, if not...GIMF.

my hemi

I did have back surgery I'm 50 years old I had a ruptured disc and spinal stenosis so yes I can't lift much or twist and stretch like I used to..so berate me because I dont do my own work well MR GD the shop that did my work you couldnt even wipe his shoes he is very reputable he is a 3rd gen guru .. and I wont mention his shop but he is on this site..

my hemi

honestly i.thought it was a 12.5 car lol im.glad it went faster lol and hoping it does it 11.90 I'd be stoked !!!

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

One of my technicians has a prosthetic leg. Had his OEM unit removed by a Chrysler New Yorker about 30 years ago. New one is a pretty fancy unit - I think it was about $75,000......

So yeah. I'm absolutely for real. I have seen people with far more "problems" pick themselves up and get on with life. "My back hurts" is defeatist.

.........

Case in point. What the F*** are you even trying to say here? This is not any English I'm familiar with.

I do. Thanks though.

GD

8Mike9

Haters be haters young man (I can say "young man" because I have some age on ya) If no one has ever worked with, lived with, or actually been compromised, along with the fact of a narrow mind, that person won't have a clue about what you have to deal with.

In my day, I've been educated by folks that couldn't turn a wrench because of disabilities encountered, yes, they had someone put their rides together for them. Ever seen a Model A with a Hemi and a guy steering and driving with the levers and all that fitted/made up to it. They have a ear to ear grin, and the car was built THEIR way.

Heck, I don't have a bad back, but still wears me out to pull an engine and tranny out of anything.

If some folks don't get your love for the car and what ya can or cannot do---eff-them.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

The first time you pull something in your back and cant move for 3 days that tune will change. Do street repairs, sidwalks and curb reset. Picked up a 60lb hammer one handed and my back was never the same 2 years ago. Pulled something twice in my lower back last month just helping with household chores. Was totally out of commission for 3 days. Couldnt even stand for 5 min. I was that guy in my late 20s and through my 30s laughing at older workers saying it will never happen to me. I changed that tune when it did and dont wish that on anyone. Its not about being lazy. You just can't bloody move without excruciating pain.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I've been there. Barely able to stand up, pinched nerve, etc.

I got myself a back brace, went out and did a valve adjustment in my Trans Am. Lots of breaks, some pain meds, etc. You do it because you love it - even if it hurts sometimes.

And then I changed my exercise routine to include a lot more core exercises. Your core muscles support your back and take the weight off all that bone structure. Now I don't have back pain.

GD

8Mike9

I think you may have confused me with someone else, I know how much my -well the kid car- weighs, I believe those who have posted here and said what their car weighs, what I don't believe is incomplete literature that does not tell the whole story. As I recall, curb weight was a name given "way back when", then fluids added, accessories, etc...so things would add up quickly. The 2300lb Vega would hit 2900lbs if you wanted AC and a full tank of gas

8Mike9

Oh my...my case in point? Mercy. You're like a little kid that only YOUR way is the right way, or the way you want to do it is the only way. You're unreasonable to listen to what others say, and accept the fact you are wrong. Or, even look at what ever someone is doing.

Now,
Don't give's two hoots about your guy, know why? One instance does not make you a knowledgeable person on back injuries. Are you now a Doctor too?

Wake the eff up. I've known guys who have several vertebrae's broke (you'd call it a broken back) and can function fine, I also know several guys (one lady to boot) that had back surgery to make them "right" and can't go though the day without a dozen Vicodin. But I guess they are just lazy?

Ya need to wake up my man, understand that you actually don't know more than everyone else walking the Earth.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

If he can drive (at the track no less) with all the abuse that comes with track driving, and he can get over to the repair shop to take a bunch of pictures, etc..... he ain't that bad. Like I said I know a guy that wrenches from a wheel chair. Parts out full size Chevy trucks. Has stacks of beds, frames, engines, etc. He ain't complaining. Always has a smile on his face and willing to hoist himself on top of an engine bay to get the job done.

It's about motivation. You grit your teeth and you get through the exercises needed to build alternate muscles. You lose weight to take pressure off joints. You do what has to be done and you don't listen to doctors that say you can't do this or that. The human body is an amazing machine. Like I said it's about motivation and not being a fat, lazy arm-chair mechanic.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

And the accepted definition of "curb weight" includes all the fluids and standard equipment. No baggage or occupants:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight

"The United States Environmental Protection Agency regulations define curb weight as follows: Curb weight means the actual or the manufacturer’s estimated weight of the vehicle in operational status with all standard equipment, and weight of fuel at nominal tank capacity, and the weight of optional equipment computed in accordance with §86.1832–01; incomplete light-duty trucks shall have the curb weight specified by the manufacturer."

Weight without the fluids is referenced as "Unladen Mass"

GD

8Mike9

Ya, I wanted to quote this so that your outstanding reply stays with TGO forever.

There really is no need for me to speak on about folks with a disability, one thing I can tell YOU, is that YOU don't know squat.

And BTW, for all my lack of punctuation skills (glad you found ONE...lol), you show your total lack of reading comprehension, even after you tried to make a snide< edited for correct spelling for GD...sigh> comment about the man's wife's weight...feel me?

So I'll recap...he said his car weighed 3450 with wife in it.

With me?

Others have shown their cars heavier.

With me?

He said he built the car-had it built-no matter, for his WIFE to drive.

Still with me?
What are you, like 4 years old?

"I know a guy"...we all "know a guy", not "all guys" are the same, for the grace of a lamb, wake the heck up. I just told you I've known folks who have actually broken their back and do fine, also told you I've known folks that after just minor surgery can't do squat, do you think I'm lying to you? Or you think they are just playing the system?

Folks don't live on pain killers so they can get up and take a ****, miss out on kids and grandkids b-days, just to collect a check. Well, I guess some may, not the folks I know.

You don't amaze me anymore, you make me feel sorry for your little narrow mind.

8Mike9

So if I argue with a tree, who wins?...

Ya...I'm out.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

No just the first sentence was directed at you.Since likes were brought up I thought I would try to pad yours a bit to catch up to the Facebook people,lol.Sorry for the confusion. Enjoy reading your posts.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

It dont work that way when you get older. You dont go pick up a 60lb hammer after injuring your back or sciatic and expect to be useful at anything for the next 8hrs. You stay home and take alot of tylenol and put on a heat pad and ben gay. I used to do alot of heavy weight lifting 20 years ago, dont have time for gym now. Probably did more harm than good in the long run. You pulled a muscle. You aggravate the sciatic you aint moving anything but your self to the nearest chair or bed , got nothing to do about enjoying or loving the work.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You asked me to point out your grammar mistakes. I obliged. And I only said I hope his wife isn't 450 lbs. Because that would be unfortunate for her health.

So he CLAIMS. And admits it was before the engine was swapped (with aluminum heads - there's 50lbs right there), and other modifications like the 9.5" converter, etc. He also has no PROOF.

Again - they CLAIM. No proof that I have seen. If typing it in a forum is proof then I am just as right as they are.

Because I actually challenge claims without proof? Because I feel everyone reading my posts deserves proper grammar so they can understand my posts? Because I believe in putting in the effort and the work to enjoy the rewards of craftsmanship and the enjoyment of a job well done? Because I don't feel like pandering to those who want all the big pats on the back and congratulations over making lackluster choices and handing over money to people with actual skills?

That's completely fine with me. I don't need your amazement. I'm not looking to change your mind. It's not going to impact me in the slightest either way. When I make these arguments it's not to change the mind of someone that vehemently opposes my viewpoint. It's to make a better argument overall and convince the audience.

I am merely suggesting that there is no PROOF of anything here. There is no Dyno number, there is no proof of weight after significant modifications..... there's essentially nothing but a lot of hot air.

GD

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Heres a mind bender... If you argue with a tree in the woods, does anyone hear it?

He is a topper. I know a few of those guys. They always got a story or explanation that tops anything you say. Never wrong. Actually one guy at work his nickname is Topper. You say you hurt your back and cant work on the car. Response is your weak and lazy with no drive and he knows a guy with no arms and legs and blind that can build a sbc in record time while doing brain surgery during an earthquake. Get gud!

8Mike9

I felt compelled:

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/c...automatic.html

Let me save you some time:Curb weight (without a driver):

1520 kg / 3351 lbs

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Really? Because I ask for proof? Because I demand accuracy? I have offered sources - GM's published curb weight (of a 1989 IROC-Z), and a definition of what "curb weight" actually means (includes fluids, gasoline, etc) - which directly contradict all the "claims" of weight, and what 8Mike9 "remembers" curb weight to be. NOT ONE member in this post has offered any PROOF that I would consider more accurate than the sources I listed.

Bring some proof. I have no problem with proof. I have a problem with unsubstantiated claims.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Ok that's one source. Now we have to consider - is that a *more* reliable source than the official GM Camaro specifications document from 1989 scanned by the GM Heritage Center? I have my doubts.

And you can remove 50 of that for his heads.

Which document do we choose? Some web site that is an attempt to compile information on thousands of vehicles - different makes, models, etc. Or a document prepared by GM to be used by the EPA for emissions compliance testing?

GD

8Mike9

FFS, how about re-reading a few posts, one member says his car weighs 3500, another 3650?, etc.

Ya know what, you're right. Plain and simple. Those dumb SOB's that weighed their cars were fools.

All you fools go re-weigh your cars now...or wait...maybe instead of everyone re-weighing their cars and coming up with the same result, GD should take his across the scales and show the 3K ticket to us?

Huh?

He's the non-believer.

Patiently waiting...

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I'm willing. Not currently able as I'm installing some new heads. Will do though - going to be a week or two. I could weigh my 91 Formula that's not licensed but doesn't matter right now with COVID..... I'll give it a shot.

GD

vorteciroc

I have not worked on as many 3rd Gen F-bodies as others here have...
But I have had a good 50 to 60 get weighed before going on my chassis dyno, in the last 2 or 3 years.

Almost none of the cars were completely stock, but the lightest car that I have had was a 1987 Sport-Coupe with a L69/ 5-speed combo, 12 gal tank...
That car was under 3,100 pounds...

At the same time though; one of the heaviest was a 1989 GTA T-Top car at over 3,500 pounds.
There is quite a difference in weight, even when mostly stock... these cars were built in so many different configurations.

I stripped a ton of crap out of my 87 Camaro, but added the weight of a complete tube-frame... it is 2,900 pounds.
But so much was removed or swapped with lighter parts (aluminum engine, wheels, calipers, Etc... all were iron/ steel stock).

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Being you worked for GM - how accurate do you think that scanned document I posted the link for might be? There's so many numbers being thrown around that I don't think anything other than having the OP weigh his car IN CURRENT CONFIGURATION will resolve the question.

GD

vorteciroc

I can't really say...

What I can say though, is that the weights listed for a vehicle by GM were never supposed to be an exact weight.

The only purposes of the "weight ratings" were for Federal and State government vehicle classifications/ emissions classifications;
and there had to be an approximate weight value for State vehicle registration purposes (price of registration is dependent on vehicle weight and classification).

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I can understand that, but "3,099 lbs" is a very specific number. It doesn't sounds like an approximation like 3000, or 3100, or 3250, or even 3125......

If that's an approximation rather than an exact weight, why such a specific number was used is very odd in my opinion.

GD

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Idk where 3099 came from. My L98 89 with power everything and ac, leather interior was 3400 on a CAT scale.

no interior but two seats, 8 pt bar, aluminum heads and water pump 383 with stealth ram, long tubes and single 4” on 18/19” wheels was 3300 on same type of scale

Th400/400” twin turbo motor and interior in it was 3527 on 4 individual drag race car scales

with all the options and such, its gonna vary alot but 3100-3500 has been the range i have seen

my hemi

Exactly ours was a fully loaded iroc with power antenna with driver 3450 my wife in it and NO she isnt fat like GD suggested

Hey GD why dont you put your money were you mouth is post up a slip...post up a scale weight...I'm waiting???

8Mike9

See, you're starting to come around. Let's be real, I don't care what your car weighs, I don't want you to spend a dime weighing it.

But do you recall the Steroid scandal in the MLB in the 90's?

MLB said (after testing all players) "5-7 percent tested positive"...no one questioned that. Myself thinking, thought "hmmn, If I test 1200 players and 88 test positive, why would I have a variance"? My math doesn't add up, don't check it, it's an example only. 1 out of 10 is 10%, not 9-11%, right?

So how does this relate to cars, manufactures, etc.? Well go back in time and look at some of Mopar, Ford, GM rated HP...then do some simple calcs...and see why some just don't add up. Why? Well, if you bought a 600HP car, you couldn't afford the insurance in it, but if you bought a 365 HP car...you could. So to the explanation of weight you have seen above for emissions, you can dig back 50+ years ago and you'll see what factory ratings actually meant.

Now, what you have to realize, is then v the last 20 years is soooooo much different...I mean GM/Ford/Ect-whoever can rate a car at 500HP and 30MPG...government happy. 30 mpg in a 3K plus vehicle? How about close to 400HP in a 5K PU getting 24/25 MPG? Unheard of 40-50 years ago, now, a walk in the park.

So save the time, effort, dollars to weigh your car(s), not needed. Members have shown/told you what their cars weighed.

I'm gonna go on the Rodney King thing and just try to get along now, getting too old to argue

Arguing is a lot of effort.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I have Firebirds - an 86 and a 91. And as pointed out it's highly dependent on the model and how it's equipped. I will weigh mine. But you also need to weigh yours in current config to make accurate assessments. I'm in the middle of a head swap so it will be a week or two before I can get on a scale with the 86 that makes similar power to your wife's Camaro.

GD