OK. I just turned 15 years old on July 31st, and for my birthday, my dad bought me an 84 Firebird S/E "project car". The car has a 2.8L V6, auto tranny, 3.73 gears, no posi. So far, we have gotten the motor completely ready to come out. All we need now is to borrow the engine hoist from a friend and we can yank it out. The motor runs, but has severe rod and bearing problems.

Now. My dad wants to give the old 2.8 to a good engine rebuilder around here that will bore it out, basically make it run pretty nice. But my question was this, how much horsepower and such do you think the motor COULD have. I plan on adding in addition to the motor upgrades, a Cold Air Induction, K'N filter,headers, basic stuff like that. (my pap owns a 65 mustang and a 95 v6 mustang that i had some fun with, cai, kn, p&P,etc.) I know this is a very broad question, but the idea of a v8 transplant is out of the picture.

I was reading the boards for a little while now and i saw a guy named "camarov6" or something like that. He has a lot done to his car like what me and my dad have planned for mine. Maybe you could help me some? heh.

 

If I was in your position, I might be thinking about swapping in a 3.4 v6. That extra .8 litres gives a lot of oomph and the 3.4 is a great engine as far as the 60* v6 goes. If you're really set on fixing up the 2.8 though, good luck and have fun. I don't know if 300 hp is achievable but I'd love to hear what you're doing to it and if you get that much power it'd be awesome.
David

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Your killin me, I about fell out of my chair....

 

Wow.. someone smack this guy and wake him up from whatever dream he is stuck in...

 

I really don't want to start anything, but the guys only 15. I remember when I first got interested in cars I didn't know jack, I just didn't post that lack of information to a message board and maybe it could have been said in a little different way. Or maybe I've just got too many prescription drugs in me.
David

 

dude- the 2.8 is a 2.8 no matter what you do to it- its biult to get around - i wouldnt set my heart even on 170 hp if i were you

 

whoa whoa whoa, what kind of message board is this? Somebody needs to smack this guy in the head? What was that about. I asked a question. I THOUGHT i would get an answer. Instead of, " no, 250-300 hp isnt possible for that motor" i get laughed at.

Why dont you guys have a little more respect for someone who is TRYING to work on there car. Yea, im 15. I dont have much expeirence with the newer motors, ive been working under the hood of a 65 mustang for a long time. Im sorry if my question was dumb, but you did not have to say that. I will edit my post, hopefully your attitudes will edit also. I came here looking for help. Thats all i want.

 

Hey dude. I got my car when I just turned 16, and I didnt know much about it. But instead of working on the engine, I made it look good. Now that it looks good, I am just beginning to work on the engine.

There's a guy on here named Dale, he has a green/teal camaro and made a CAI for it, and even painted it to match his car. There's a whole bunch of posts on here about making one to look like that.

You can get headers from Camar_Hunter_c, for $150 plus shipping. I ordered some. I'm gonna get my whole exhaust redone too...custom y pipe, high flow cat from catco, and a new muffler (undecided-might go for the flowmaster, yet I'm oddly curious about flowtech).

You can put 1.52 rockers, you can get a performace cam, underdrive pulleys.

A lot of guys on here swear by distributor rebuilds and ignition work.

I'm getting a 3.73 posi; a lot of guys will talk about the bad gas mileage, but you've already got a 3.73, so maybe if you do a lot of mods you MIGHT think about getting a posi, if you do enough to get traction problems.

With some internal work, in my opinion, I think 170 hp (at the flywheel) is entirely possible.

If you bore it out to 3.1, then thats already 5 extra hp.

I'm dissapointed in the responses by some of you guys. But you might want to ask TomP some questions, he's answered everyone I've ever had (and Ked85 too...where's he been lately?)

Good luck,
Jason

 

From a fellow teenager (16), I think you should convert to MPFI, that 84's a carb'd motor isn't it? Junk yard should have plenty of MPFI setups. If you can, KED85 would suggest swapping the 2.8 for a 3.4 found in 93-early 95 F-Bodies, its a direct replacement. (RWD ones are the only ones that will work) His article is in the tech section of thirdgen.org. Heck maybe after you get the 3.4, you could bore it out more??? (Not really sure about it, but KED85 says its a <i>beefier</i> block.) BTW, the 3.4 is rated @ 160 HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque. It would probably do better under a MPFI setup.

 

I would strongly think about dropping in a 3.4. I did it and it amazes me just like KED said it would. Rebuilding the engine is gonna cost u a good 600 dollars if not more. I picked up a 50k mile 3.4 for about 600 bucks. I'm sure the MPFI setup from the 2.8 bottle necks it a little but port and polishing it should help. I definetly have traction problems with it and I have 3.42 gears and a 5 speed. Think about the car in the long run. Ya and I recomend making it look good. Clean it up. I good looking 3rd gen is always nice to see even if its a 4 cylinder or 2.8. Some people on the boards are jerks. Ignore them and read the posts and just learn from them. I credit almost all my knowledge to this board. KED and TomP can help you with a majority of problems and they're nice about it. KED talked to me all the time for a solid week about the 3.4 swap even after he gave me his article he still talked to me. I was only 16 back then and I'm sure I asked stupid questions.

 

Hey 84FirebirdSE, welcome to the boards and congrats on getting a third-gen!

I think it's pretty cool that you have a project car to work on--and especially that you have it before you're of driving age (else, you'd be like me with a license, itching to drive it and you'd be tempted to rush things that you shouldn't). You've probably got one of the best opportunities to start *really* learning about cars--not like my friends who buy K&N filters and put fart cans on their Civics and think that they're automotive know-it-alls.

As far as your 2.8L V6 goes... so far, I think that all of the (applicable) replies are good. Although I've never done it myself, I'd have to say that I like the idea of putting in a 3.4L V6 from a fourth-gen the best.

However, if you do decide to stay with the 2.8, there are some "general" things that would probably good for you to know if you plan of working on your car with a "performance-minded" mindset. First of all, I can tell you--even from my limited experience--that 95% of the time, it's safe to say that "performance == money". Which is not to say that there are not some good, general maintinence and performance boosters that you can do cheaply. But what I've found is that, most of the time, the gains that you see from low/no-cost mods are marginal, at best. The other things that that do get you a more-noticable performance boost (i.e. intake, heads, exhaust, etc.) are also the things that end up starting to cost some real money. On top of that, when you're trying to find those sort of things for a 2.8 (or mabye even the 3.4), you're looking at even more money, simply because the demand for these parts is generally lower than that of, say, a V8. I don't know about you (I'm only two years older than you at 17), but I have to pay for my own gas and insurance on my car, and I can tell you that for what most high-school students make (if anything at all), there's not really enough money left over after that for any sort of serious modifications. And my parents are the kind that started weaning me from their wallets once highschool started, so that means that they aren't likely to help with that sort of thing either (as long as my car gets me to school and work safely). Money is what ultimately keeps my car from ever really being any more than stock.

That being said, if your dad has agreed to put down some money to get your 2.8 rebuilt, I would definately take the money that he is willing to put into the rebuild and suggest some other options--namely, swapping in the 3.4. If you're lucky enough to find a good 3.4 at a good price, in my opinion, I would think that would be ideal. If performance is what you're going for, and you don't have a "direct uplink" to your parents wallets, a stock 3.4L V6 will be more cost-effective than a rebuilt 2.8L V6 that has been modified to achieve performance similar to the 3.4.

If, however, you want to keep the stock engine and try to see what performance you can get out of it, rebuilding the 2.8 is a good start. The engine should run well for what it was originally intended to do after a good rebuild. The only thing there is that, for the money, I don't think that you'll see the kind of performance that you would if you had swapped to a bigger engine.

So, it's pretty much up to you (and your dad, of course)... personally, I tend to agree with the other posters that putting in a 3.4 is your best bet. Heck, you sound like you've already got the engine prepared to be pulled anyway!

Good luck!

 

I'll just add to what everyone else has said up to this point. In 85, GM went to a larger journal crankshaft in the 2.8. the 85-89 2.8 are more durable than the 1982-84 ones. Personally, I would either look for a 3.4 or at the very least an 85-89 2.8. You could also put in a 3.1 that was used in 90-92 v6 camaros.

Aside from the smaller journal crankshaft, the earlier versions were low performance pieces and were the dogs of the bunch due to the Rochester "Varijet" carb. I know cause I have an 83 as a daily driver. Converting to fuel injection would help but it would probably be easier to put the carb on the 3.4 (but then the performance of the 3.4 would be bottlenecked).

 

Sorry dude, I didn't mean to laugh at you.

I had been strugling with my Cat all that day, and when I came in, and saw your post, I just couldn't help my self.

I was laughing hystericaly, and it just came out on the board.

Welcome to the board.

There is tons of information here, and lots of helpful people....

 

I have read the other post, this is what I would recommend so you will see repeat things in my post.

You stated above that a V-8 was out of the question.
Well your V-6 stock produces 107 hp and 145 lbs/ft.
An 85-89 V-6 produces 135hp, and 160lbs/ft.
I would say find a donor car, Buy it, take the motor out of it, the FI system, the computer, Dash and place it in your car.
A 3.4 is a good Modification. But that requires more time and money. So you could save that for a couple years down the road.

Thats what I would say to do.
But once again is it really that effective.
Thats a lot of work for a V-6 engine.
If you do not have any interest in FI, then I would say do what camaroV6 did to his engine, only leave yours carburated, you can probably buy better carbs and manifolds for it too. So who knows you may make the same power anyway.

 

Ok. We'll today we got the motor out, i took pictures of everything, just need to get them developed and scanned and i will put them up. We brought the motor and transmission out together as i said before. I proposed the question to my dad about buying a 3.4 block and going from there. His biggest concern about it was if everything electrical would be alright. I said to him since only the block would be changed, the top end would still have the original connectors. Right?

Anyway, i was also wondering where I could get a 3.4 block. And would it have to be out of a 4th gen or did they put them in the 3rd gens too. Questions questions lol..

 

We'll, we bought the 84 we have now for only 750$. I highly doubt I could talk him into another car. And also, i read somewhere that my v6 produced 88hp. You said 107hp. I'm not saying im right, just questioning.

 

You are correct in assuming that by only changing blocks all of the connections would remain the same as long as you retain the original induction system (carb). 4th gen's are the only car they came in but GM does sell a 3.4 crate motor. I think it's 1900 (that's the price of a longblock) so a shortblock may be cheaper

 

Not sure if you've checked it out yet or not, but this is the only "howto" that I know of for swapping a 2.8L to a 3.4L V6. It might answer some of your questions.

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/t...apboogie.shtml

Check it out...

 

If im not mistaken a company called fageol makes
a blower for carbed and TB injected 2.8L but You
would have to get a cowl hood.

 

I see your point about the first car costing $750, but if you had a job, maybe you could chip in on it. But if not a 3.4 L carburated swap sounds like the best solution.

But I know I am right on the 107. The 2.5L inline 4 produced 88 hp in 1984. To back myself up heres the page with the correct listings on it https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

84 Firebird S/E M5,A4 LC1 V6 8.5:1 2.8 (173) 107@4800 145@2100 2 bbl

 

I'm sorry too then.. its just its so incredible for someone to have posted such a number.. its kind of like the time that guy came on here talking about his firebird having a carbon fiber body and blah blah blah.. just a bunch of crazy stuff... good luck on your project...