Ok, I've heard that a LOT of V-6ers use a Crane cam on here...what model would be the best for me? Here's the deal..I'm going to run the car n/a, and I want the BEEFIEST, most EPA-threatening cam I can get..I want some serious power... The deal is, with my birthday money plus my extra money, I want to put a new water pump in, because this one's gonna blow real soon... Now, I figure while the water pump is off, I might as well do a timing chain replacement..I figure I need it by now. Question: I heard a high performance timing chain will make a difference...is that true? Now, I figure while I'm all the way down to the timing chain, I might as well slip a cam in there right? NORMALLY, I'd buy exhaust first for the car...because it's stock right now..but because the water pump is going so quick, I'm afraid of putting it off too long. So yeah, what do you guys think? High perf. timing chain or not, and whats the beefiest cam I can install? As long as I get...hmm...8 or 10 mpg, I'll be happy.

 

if you want the beefiest cam for your 2.8 look at a paw parts book or on their web site. they have 3 different cams. i have a blue racer cam in mine. i like it a lot. for a timing chain i would go cloyes double roller. i also have that.

 

Serious
Want cheap fun!
Here's how.
ANY ENGINE NEEDING A TIMING CHAIN means the engine is worn.
Atleast 100K miles already, right?
My suggestion?
And inexpensive alternative?
Go to any parts store & get their chain.
And Water pump, timing gear gasket set, too.
THEN ORDER the 1.52 roller tip rockers for your ride.
Why?
You'll increases the factory cam specs, back to best setting for cheap.
AND these parts can switch over to a 3.4 long block in the future.
Things you need not buy for this package.
No new lifters.
No intake gaskets set
No new cam!
You've saved about $250 plus your labor hours.
You've still gained back the lost 15HP due to engine aging.
With the saved funds, go get a new coil, plug wires, plugs, cap & rotor, rebuild your distributor ($100 is cost or maybe bit more) and you'll regain 5 more HP!
Add your final saved funds to exhaust and gain back extra 5-10 HP.
You could see a solid gain of 20 HP.
Plus gas milage increase
and Power increase.
ALL for the cost of "only" that cam project.
Why only 1.52 ratio rockers?
When you switch over to the 3.4 long block, the factory cam is very aggressive spec'd. On that future swap plan in mind, you can easily still win with the 1.52 option.
With 1.6 ratio & 3.4 cam you could have valve/piston interference.

 

KED..the engine's got 104,000 on it but still performs with the best of em...hell, I've never been beat by another third gen V-6...kinda strange.. Question...if I'm replacing the timing chain, won't I already have easy access to the cam? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was right there? Now, how much has to be taken apart for the roller rockers? I have NO experience with the engine stuff, so I'm trusting my local shop to do it... I don't trust myself enough.. I'm pretty dead-set on this cam idea though...my master plan is to build this car into a street rod....I want it to run quick on the strip but still be streetable...and then whatever car I get after this will be either my daily driver, or my FULL-OUT drag car, and this will be my daily... Either way though, I plan to keep her as long as I can. By the way..$100 for a distributor rebuild, is that the cost for the parts and stuff, or is that shop cost? (BTW, plug wires are brand new, I think the plugs are decent, and I'm giving it a new cap & rotor soon considering they're wicked cheap anyways..) Also, I'm hoping to have a Dynomax Catback with a converter delete pipe by..December to January?

 

You do have some fun time left on the motor.
A "new" cam will help increase wear of the engine block life (or what's left of it).
Really, try the band aids and enjoy the pep you gain.
The distributor rebuild is a simple mission. That's the cost of parts & your own labor.
If you are "set" on cam, I'll let others jump in, then.

 

Yeah, you can get at the cam when you do the chain. Problem is, when you change the cam, you must also change the lifters. Lifters take a set, like a fingerprint, to the cam lobes. Using old lifters on a new cam, or, vise versa, using new lifters on an old cam, will send a ton of metal through your motor as the new pattern fights the old pattern, and you can wear down the cam lobes fast! So you'd have to remove the top half of the motor to get at your lifters if you want to change the cam. Not impossible, but it's not as simple anymore as just pulling the old cam out and sliding a new one in. You'd have to pull the rocker covers just to relieve the pressure from the pushrods on the lifters.

And... if you go That far, you should think about replacing the pushrods and lifters, too. Crane sells a kit- uh, no, wait, that's Comp Cams- sells a kit that comes with 1.52 rockers and new pushrods, for about $20 over the price of the 1.52 rockers.

 

ok KED...u saved me a lot of trouble

i was going to order the 1.6 rockers...

i ahve the crane 2030 (basically tthe 3.4 cam)

204* 214* ..IN .423 EX .423

so u say only 1.52 rockers will fit fine???

 

Damn...I've got a lot to learn. So, it sounds like my original couple-hundred-easy plan is getting real expensive real quick... I talked to a buddy of mine and he was telling me that I can get performance springs instead of roller rockers for a lot less, and get as much out of them...?

 

High performance springs are usually meant to be paired with a higher lift cam and higher RPM's... not needed with stock stuff. You need a stronger spring to close the valve on that kind of application... for our engines, I wouldn't say performance springs would be needed.

You -would- notice an improvement, however, if your current springs have lots of miles, and are worn out. For that matter, you might want to put on new "stock" valvesprings-- or a valvespring recommended by the cam manufacturer. (email them and ask!)

 

Ok, so bottom line...the water pump and timing chain will get done no matter what...are the roller rockers going to be very hard to put in? This is all done by the local shop so I'm weary of labor charges...(BEST I can find is around $40-$50 an hour)

 

As a general rule of thumb, when you dothe cam, you do lifters and springs also, at the very least. If you've still got stock lifters, you'll get the most out of a new cam with new AFTERMARKET rockers... doesn't even matter if they are crappy stamped steel non-rollers, they will have the consistent 1.5 or 1.52 or whatever ratio you chose that you need... the stockers can range anywhere from 1.46 to 1.51... big performance lose through inconsistency...

Since puchrods are so cheap (we don't need hardend ones unless we're puch some serious horse or high-lift) they could also be thrown in as well... If you keep going with the "might-as-well"'s... you'd have a 509 in the car before long... so there is no eed to get carried away here.. just do what you want... but definatly get new springs a chain set with your new cam... rockers and lifters optional but recommended...

 

Thanks everyone...you guys are the best.. After all this, maybe I'll go the more traditional route of exhaust and repairs first... I already have my exhaust pick down...maybe I'll start another post for intakes...

 

Never wanting to rain on a parade,
when you deal with older cars, lots of stuff ages.
Go for the stuff that helps over all performance, & gas milage & engine efficency.
Unless you have a big Cubic Inch High HP mill & are searching for that final HP, generally, better exhaust, helping increase air intake, ignition/timing chain benefit the power bottom line & the dollar bottom line.
That's why I've gone the route of complete low milage 3.4 engine block swaps for "return to power".
I get everything (better heads, cam, more cubic inches, etc) all in one (MAJOR) effort.
Always search for better alternatives before you turn that wrench the first time.

 

Right on.... How hard are the roller rockers to get in? If a shop isn't going to charge me that much, when my birthday comes around, I'm getting on Summit and ordering a timing chain, the catback, and the roller rockers...maybe a new cap & rotor, and an underdrive crankshaft pulley while I'm at it.... Now THAT's a party....

BTW-Do you know if any of those parts come with stickers? Nothing better than seeing a third gen with a rear window covered in performance parts stickers....(although I've got louvers on it right now...)

 

crower makes the most aggressive cams for our cars, look into them if you want a new cam and get their install kit too; comes with lifters, pushrods, and springs. i am thinking about this upgrade but am hesitant because the fuel injected 355 is about to begin gettng machine work on the block in a few weeks....

 

I was going to put all my stickers on my rear window; then I changed my mind, and put just a B&M, an Accel (which should come off), and a Summit sticker on the radiator cover. Looked too tacky for me, and it wouldn't help me to get out of a speeding ticket!

 

mw66nova
do you have a part number for the cower kit?

 

http://www.crower.com

they have 5 different cams for our vehicles

http://crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml



Chevrolet 173
19

thats a pdf file that lists all the specs...

i think thery also have a custom grind too...

 

i got the crower cam picked out, which install kit should i get. Im gonna need lifters pushrods and springs.

 

call crower and talk to them..

i think most of their kits come with lifters and springs..

some of their cams are really agressive..(with valve lift that i dont think the stock springs can take...so they send it with springs too...)

 

Ok I just wanna make sure . But all the cam kits will fit in a 3.4 right? Also where can I find timing gears and not the chain. I want the wine in my engine. I m looking at crower and that blue racer cam . But the blue racer doesnt say for the 3.4 only the 2.8 engines.

 

No one makes that part.
Ther isn't a market for 60* V-6 stuff.
You need strong springs that FIT the spring pocket size of the 2.8/3.1 head. Make sure that detail is clear. Make sure you seek out Dual spring set ups, too. The manufactures will all confirm this, & they should.
The 3.4 head has a larger cast spring pocket area, which is why the 3.4 has the more aggerssive cam.
ALl this information is in the GM PErformance Parts book for $6 ANY GM dealer.

 

Thanks KED.....But I was thinking of just slapping my intake and stuff on the 3.4 block and heads. Or will that not work? I m in the process of taking the 3.4 out of the 93 now. I m sure I ll be as **** as you were w/ this project. I have bought another vechicle so when I take the 3.1 out of my 91 I wont be hoofing it untill I get the 3.4 in my 91. Also seeings how my girlfriend / soon too be wife loves the 91 so much . I m not getting rid of it anytime soon. So thats why I m putting this 3.4 in it. I ve printed out your tech stuff on your swap. So be ready to answer some questions that I might have.

 

how hard is the install of a cam, and about how many hours? I trust myself doing it, i just dont want it to take like more than a day or a weekend to do, because its my only car and i need it to get back and forth to school.

 

Buy (or flip through) a Haynes 82-92 Camaro or Firebird manual at a parts store, then you'll see what's involved. In the manual, look up everything we talked about (removing timing chain cover, removing cam, removing intake manifold, lifters, etc..)

 

Think of the cam swap project this way.
Open your hood.
See everything, including (probably) radiator/AC condensor?
Well, you'll have to remove/move it aside to do a cam swap.
That's why an engine swap of a running long block ain't that far away from a cam swap mission.
The ONLY part, you will not remove or need to,
is the exhaust system.
While your distributor is out, in your hand, rebuild it before reinstallation, too.
Since injectors are off, send them out for cleaning for $10 each. (this guy is in New Jersey)
Might as well as they'll be in your hands, also.
Plan on longer than a weekend.

 

Thats why I m putting a cam in my 3.4 before putting it in my 91. Its going to be alot easier this why. So I dont have to fight w/ everything. Also putting headers on it before putting it in my 91. Crower cams tell me that all they do is regrind on your stock cam. To me this sounds a lil fishy to me. They also said that I wont have to get different rocker arms that I ll be able to use everything on my engine. What do yall think? Is Crower worth it or should I buy from Crane or COMP cams?