Well today I gave her the ultimate test- the track.
I wanted some stiff competition to compare to so I decided to run in ESP against the stewards advice. His exact quote was, "your V6 will get eaten for lunch in that class, you belong in SK1 especially on street tires." To that I arrogantly replied back, "Please just put me in ESP and well see what happens"

Turns out that the only other 6 cylinder in the class was a full race Corvair with a fairly built pancake 6 with about 300+hp (stripped interior, race tires/suspension, and head & taillights to make it street legal) everything else was V8's and racing tires.

Out of 11 cars, I was the only car with under 250HP and street tires to boot. Results- the little V6 took 5th place baby- and let me tell you the first half of the track really favored the big HP cars(tight corners and longer straights)

Not to shabby for the Good little 2.8

Edit: I should also note that I was the fastest carof the day on street tires! That included beating an NSX, an new 350ZX, and a BMW M3 to name a few.

 

Pimpin' :hail:

 

So how about some details of your setup, eh?

 

Yes, I agree. The specs sure would be nice to know......

 

Sounds like you did farly decent. I'm sure you didn't expect to take first place, but sounds like you might have pissed a few drivers off

Way I look at it, half is the car, half is the driver. Sounds like you know your car very well, and I bet that made up for some of the lack of power, etc.

How many cars were in your class total?? 5th outta 10, 5th outta 20?? Etc.

 

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Quote:
How many cars were in your class total?? 5th outta 10, 5th outta 20?? Etc
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11 cars total including me. They all thought I was nuts for not running GS or SK1 with a V6 and street tires - I wanted some real competition.

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Quote:
So how about some details of your setup, eh?
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*GW steering brace
*Quick ratio box
*Baer bumpsteer kit
*Spohn swaybars (34mm solid front/ went back to the 25mm solid rear from the 23mm after front and rear shock adjustments and new tires)
*Edelbrock 3pt STB
*HMS aluminum strut mounts
*Koni race struts & shocks
*ARP wheelstuds
*Kyokugen titanium wheel lugs
*front Powerstop (slotted) rotors
*rear Stillen (drilled) rotors
*Stillen brake pads (front and rear)
*aprox 800# front race springs
*Aprox 225# rear progressive rate springs (these feel better in the rear than lineal springs and also stay in the can when the car is jacked Progressive springs compress and extend further than lineal springs)
*Stock A-arms & K member (only parts that are stock- awaiting something better than PARaicing ones- they don't look strong to me. p.s. I have broken tubular control arms on other cars before! I know what I'm looking at)
*Earl's braided lines
*Earl's Solo-bleeds
*Spohn tubular SFC's
*Spohn adj. Torque arm w/ sperical mount & loop
*Darrell Young Full race 700r4 trans (fully custom built)
*7.5"gm 10bolt w/ HD axles & bearings (I don't put down massive power in this car so I opted to just have the 7.5" beefed up- Rather than go to a 12 bolt or 9"- car is built for roadracing)
*3.23 ratio w/ Auburn posi (stock was 3.42, I went down for better range in each gear for cornering)
*Aluminum preloaded diff cover
*Spohn adj. LCA's with combo poly/rodend mounts
*BMR bolt-in relcation brackets for added brace support to shock mount/ then welded in place
*Hotchkis adj. Panhard rod
*Goodyear F1 GS-D3 tires 245/50-16
*'87 Iroc rims 16"x8" (all rears so I can rotate) 1/4" spacers front and rear

Alignment specs were set only to hard street use, not full race:
Caster- L/+4.66 R/+5.30
Camber- L/-0.78 R/-0.90
Toe in- +1/16"
Tire pressure- F/ 49.5psi R/ 47psi

Even though I ran the best street tires money can buy (16"), they went away from me half way through the course on all three runs. They still just get too hot and glaze (rubber compound too hard even on a 280 treadwear- need under 60tw to be competitive.

 

Tire chalk mark for psi and camber readings in corners- notice where the white shoepolish is scrubed off to. Also note the 45* wear patterns off the treads in three runs.

 

Front tire, same 45* wear pattern on center treads- these tires brake incredible even when extra hot- the edge grip went away but straight line braking was always there.

 

Awesome, so now it's time for some slicks and a V8.... sounds like the chassis is capable.

 

Sounds good, time to beef up the power, and try and find some track tires, and show them what you can do

 

Nope, this car will remain a V6. Am building a 3.4 for it that will rival Irocs while still retaining the light weight.

This car was built for everyday street use an I just took it there for one day just to have fun. Don't intend to get serious with it for full competition.

 

WOW! THat's pretty impressive. I'm doing some work towards the handling department on our car in the future, it won't be as radical by any means but I want to try Solo II when we're done.

Eric

 

None too shabby!

Might I suggest the new BFGoodrich gForce T/A KDW tires for your next set? Around the same price, and all I've heard is how grippy they are in the corners!

 

We have a set of them in the family, These goodyears are night and day better than the BFG KDW/ Now the BFG KD g-force on the other hand shine- but are not made in a 16" that will fit, only 17" and above. The next best tire is the Firestone Firehawk SZ50 EP in a 16". You want to know about tires? just ask, I have driven on most brands.
Best most predictable autox tire is the Hoosiers /A.

 

Hey! Very sweet.

I've currently got Goodyear Eagle HPs up front, and 255/50/16 Eagle ZR50s in the back. I've worn them down pretty good, and starting to save up the $$ to get a good set of tires.

I'm torn between either -

a) Go the Cheap route. Kuhmo Supra Ecsta 711 - $56 apiece

b) Go with the BFGoodrich KDW - $134 apiece (heard good things)

c) Firehawk SZ50EP - $137 apiece (heard good things, + your recommendation)

d) Firehawk Indy 500s - $88 apiece. (more good things - price/performance here)

I'm trying to find a good blend of price/performance (I don't have unlimited funds, lol) as well as a tire that can last around 20k-30k miles.

 

If I were buying tires today, I would buy the SZ50EP's again. The new Goodyears that I am running right now(been on there for 3 weeks) have the best straightline braking grip and cornering grip, but the thing I don't like as well as the SZ50EP is the side to side (transition) feel- Goodyears have some loose slop in the middle of a left-to-right or right-to-left steering movement. The Goodyear F1 GS-D3's just don't feel as stable (even though they are, the just give a slight uneasy feeling) The Firestone's grip is very close it is almost hard to tell the difference unless the suspension is very, very solid- and they have the best everyday comfort feel combined with predictable performance.

 

I have 275/40/17 GForce KDW's all around and I agree that they aren't the best out there... they grip very well in the rain, but hell I can still fry them up pretty good on a hot day and I've only got about 220 Hp under the hood.

 

Agood, where you running your meter to test what kinda g-forces you were pulling thru the track?? If I remember right, you can pull about 1 in the cornors correct??

 

Have never used a g-tech meter or such, I've heard though that they are easy to "spike" a higher than realistic number reading. Here's a thread I posted a few months back on the suspension board after I tested it and how I did it.(by the way it was 1.07g's)
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...=%2Askidpad%2A

 

Agood2.8 here(Now RTFC)
Well once again I took down the V8's yesterday but this time in a very grouling local challange with a month and a half of smack talk as to how bad I was going down. I raced against 8 other board members here on TGO. Two of them though were driving a 4thgen LS1. One of them the closest competitor(RedRocket) has the widest tires and rims of any one on these boards and running the very best dry traction street tire (BFG KD g-force 18's).

I even took down one of the 5 ESP local competitors who was on race tires. Of the five on race tires and me on street tires, I took 5th. We had 14 total in the class. All of them were V8's.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=306260

 

Hey All, having seen the car in person it's a great, well engineered ride!
GW=Global West?

 

Thank you Karl. Yes on the GW.
Here's an updated list of the car. I think I have it all but who knows. You can see the changes since two years ago.
-------------------------------
What the Camaro is and consists of:

Started life as a Limited production '87 Calif Edition RS Camaro with a custom dealer paint scheme.

I have added-

*'87 IROC 16x8 rims that I had chromed- Rims then were balanced grinded to ensure perfect balance before tires were ever fitted. Reducing the need for much balance weight when tires are mounted
*Multiple sets of high dollar performance tires-update 7/05,BFG KDW(cut a Goodyear GSD3, needed tires quickly. The KDW were readily availiable yet not 1st choice)
*Arp racing studs 1/2" x 2.970
*1/2" lugnuts - triple chromed
*'87 IROC 10-bolt with rear discs, 3.23's and posi (I'll get more into this later- It has been modified from this stock point)
*Various sets of stock front and rear 10.5" performance rotors and pads. Mainly Stillen brake rotors and pads were best by far in the 10.5" iron caliper catagory.
* finally after years of not keeping "reliable" (meaning long lasting without warping) brakes on the car I decided to upgrade them- Wilwood LS1 12.2x.810 4pot rears with internal drum parking brake assembly.
*All brake fasteners have been drilled and safetywired (rotors, brackets and calipers)
*Lokar custom fit steelbraided E-brake cables and clevis, stock parking lever adjuster removed and part of assembly altered
*Fronts are 6pot 13x1.25 Wilwood -Biggest anyone can get under a stock 16" iroc rim- Everything custom made and fitted from scratch. Spindles shaved for weight reduction
*GLobal West custom billet aluminum G-body front hubs
*Custom alum hubcentric wheel spacers to set proper scrub pattern with new front brake setup
*Earls braided brake lines-Custom Earls fronts with fttings on Wilwood setup
*Earls Solo-bleed fluid valves
*1LE prop valve (I have recently put a new booster on also in the past two years.)
*EBC green pads for quiet street use
*Bracing welded to A-arms
*ES Bushings in A-Arms and extended ball joint
*Suspension Spring Specialist 800lb front linear springs trimmed to ride height. Final rate aprox 810-820lbs from trimming to exact desired height
*rear Progressive rate springs 145-225lb max
*Koni shaft style progessive rate bumpstops that are setup to assist the rear spring rate even further progessively to help induce a certain disired amount of cornering squat
*Koni "yellow" sport struts & shocks on max setting front and 1click down from max on rears
*Custom billet aluminum HMS strut mounts with special Aurora HD racing bearings. Also had them polished.
*Fairly agressive alignment specs for being used on the street everyday. If I didn't occationally drive this car hard, the wifes daily driving would cause uneven tire wear.
*Eldebrock TPI 3pt strut tower brace
*Global West steering brace (Car already has a quick ratio 2.25 lock to lock steering box from factory)
*Custom welded upper rear steering box brace (pre-loaded and removable)
*Custom welded trans tunnel/rear control are brace (pre-loaded and removable)
*Baer bumpsteer alum adj rodended tierods sleeves
*Spohn 34mm solid chromemoly front swaybar
*HD front swaybar frame mounts so the bar does not pull out of the frame under hard cornering
*Front grill and airboxes modified to alter airflow patterns into the nose of the car
*BeCool Aluminum V8 radiator, dual core.
*BeCool dual fan kit (rated @ 700hp)Relays and temp switches for both fans. One hardwired to battery and probed into radiator bung for redondant backup. First fan wired as standard 1 fan system on factory wiring and A/C relay.I had the Becool aluminum fan mounts TIG welded to the radiator upper and lower supports
*BeCool Billet catchcan
*Stainless Steel solid 3' long upper and lower radiator flex hoses. Polished billet alum hose ends (not copper flex hoses that are chromed, these are 100% SS.)
*Dual highflow air filters
*A/C system completely updated to a "new" R-134 setup. Not the old R-12 compressor converted.
*Darrell Young Racing "completely custom" (Not off the shelf) 700r4 with everything internally gutted and upgraded new with all the latest and greatest. Heavy emphasis went into minimal drivetrain loss with internal componant choices. Built to handle 300hp raced reliably for years hopefully. Been great for almost 3yrs so far (7/05)
*Custom made V8 torque convertor fitted to V6 tranny (Tranny has V8 imput shaft)
*Autometer trans temp guage with electric sender unit 100*-250*
runs @ 185*, max on 98* day at the track is 210*
*B & M shifter gate plate (Prototype)
*ACPT carbon fiber 4lb driveshaft with Spicer u-joints. Spohn driveshaft loop cut back off at this point- No more concern about a high speed polevault with the brooming carbon fiber safety system
*rebuilt 10bolt rearend with new bearings, seals and kept the taller 3.23's in it. I like this ratio on the road better than the 3.42's. They have a broader power range through corners and higher top end without going into O.D.- Good for roadracing.
* Moser alloy axles with lightweight drilled flanges to reduce rotation weight
* "Roadrace" version Auburn Posi
*Aluminum diff cover with bearing cap preloads
*BMR bolt-on relocation brackets (I welded them into place) Why bolt-ons? They have a secondary support brace that the weld-on styles don't- strengthens the shock mount for a future coilover rear conversion. I was thinking ahead, but don't now think I'll ever bother doing it.
*Spohn chromemoly TQarm with solid trans mount crossmember with driveshaft loop. I also fitted the front solid mount with a larger HD Aurora rodend.(edit: cut loop off when installed carbon fiber driveshaft)
*ES poly trans mount
*25mm chromemoly Spohn rear swaybar with HD axle mounts.
*Spohn chromemoly adj LCA's with special HD Aurora rodends (34,000 load rating) also added- Radius arm swing shorteneds as much as possible to induce roll understeer when cornering /update:new 56,000 load rating QA1 rodends now fitted. part # HMR12HCPT ("T" is teflon lined)
*Tubular panhard rod (Future changes will be made here to add roll center adj provisions)
*Jegs panhard rod relocator. Lowered rear roll center for less weight transfer under braking. Keeps the *** end from jacking under braking
*Spohn tubular suframe connectors. I installed myself and welded them along the subframe. Custom bent trianglar inboard braces and welded them to the floorboard also. 1) to gain catalytic convertor height for ground clearance. 2) Direct bracing design- stronger and ties into, not laying on top like original Spohn design. he doesn't do this for ease of install for the average person.
*The entire floorboad is cleaned and epoxy painted to help prevent corrision.
*PF&E custom stainless steel headers (One of a kind. Stainless retains heat and is much perfered for racing, and for life expectancy of headers)Headers are on. Used VW(type1) 1 1/2" port metal/composite performance exhasut manifold gaskets.
*PF&E custom stainless steel y-pipe.
*Headers & y-pipe are also ceramic coated
*Magnaflow 4" round high flow catalytic convertor. 2 1/2" in and out
*Magnaflow 4" round Bullet muffler straightpipe for catalytic convertor removal
*Catalytic & bullet sections both have StainlessSteel V-clamp Collars for quick change.For track use, can up the fuel pressure without the cat so I do not burn it up.
*Catback exhaust completely redone with 2 1/2" pipe. Tucked under floorboard as tight as possible (It doesn't hang down like over the counter exhuasts do).
*Flowmaster 80 muffler with 1.75" dual exits (Not the crappy sounding large 2 1/2" duals)
*'89 Vette in-tank fuelpump. Higher pressure and flow with metal internals. Stock pump has plastic internals.
*Holley adjustable fuel pressure reg. Stock psi at idle:38/wot 43psi. I run idle 45psi/wot 55 psi
*Autometer air/fuel ratio gauge
*Autometer electric fuel pressure gauge 0-100psi
*Autometer FP sender tapped into stock fuel rail intake block
*62mm EDP billet alum TB (discountinued- but I have a new one)
*Custom home made alum plenum (not on car yet)
*Polished intake runners to injectors. Polished stock plenum neck as much as possible and also blocked the EGR to prevent the notorious carbon buildup(Ported and polished on uninstalled setup- I have another complete intake manifold for the new motor)
*17lb & 19lb injector sets (I still have the stock 15lb injectors in the car)
*1.52 roller tip rockers installed currently
*Fiero alum valvecovers (not installed)
*140amp polished Alt with custom bracket
*ASP crankshaft underdrive pulley
*new design tensioner
*timing cover with electric WP fitting TIG welded in place (not installed)
*aftermarket prom chip- programed for 180* running temp
*New distributor with A/C Delco module and dist based drilled for added cooling
*53,000volt Hypertech ignition coil. (Stock is 38,000, MSD is 48,000) Coil underneath further heatshielded from exhaust manifold
*Taylor 8.8mm race wires
*Taylor fire sleeves to heat shield the spark plug cable boots
*EVERY sensor in the computer system loop has been replace with a new A/C Delco units within the past 2 years- everything is perfect. A/C delco sensors and module are the best money can buy. They have great insulation against heat and will out perform anything else in the short and long run- don't ever buy any other brand.
*3 years ago I had a new 2.8 GM crate motor put into it (not rebuilt) It has currently about 41,000 on it.(as of 7/05)
*I run a longer oilfilter thanks to header clearance, 1/2qt more oil volume now in motor due to larger filter
*3.4L 60*V6 bolck on engine stand bored to 3.5l (in process of custom build)
*MobilOne full synthetic 15W50 oil in every car I drive.
*40below and swimming pool ("treated") water in the cooling system
*Deleted the TB coolant lines entirely for ease of plenum removal.
* 13 degree timing advance. stock is 10*
*redid the headliner
*LaCarrera polished 4-spoke steering wheel and polished billet hub with black bowtie engraved horn insert.
*Pioneer 1.5din CD player reciever unit- no amps. This unit doesn't need it. It has much much better sound than the factory ERS system. Amps add too much weight anyways- I'm into handling so I personally don't care for that crap in a car. I have a home system that will drowned out any ******* neighbor playing their crappy thump thump music in the rare case that happens in my neighborhood. Loud music doesn't belong in an automobile (My personal opinion) One need to listen to the noises your car is telling you when you drive- especially when pressing a car (A big tip for novice drivers.)
*Sylvainia Silverstar headlamps both low and high beams
*Triple edge lifetime wiperblades
*Personalized license plate reading: ON A RAIL
*Autolite plugs
*Diehard Roadhandler battery
*Does the matching painted floorjack count? I was bored

 

All I needed to add is race tires. Then gotten up early enough I could have walked the track so I knew where the heck I was going. I went out on the new course blind not knowing where the next gate was and having to make quick judgement reactions out of each corner(not smooth). I have autoX'ed for years back in the 80's and early 90's and it is manditory since you get no practice runs that you have to walk the course to memorise the track layout so you do not DNF. First time ever in all the years racing that I hadn't walked and memorised a course setup- I never had so must trouble in my life and this was an excetionally confusing track (check the map layout on the link). What happened is I thought we were all running CSM class later in the day and I could walk the course at noon before my run group. I arrived there at 9am, course was closed, and all the locals had signed up for the next run group in ESP so I quickly teched & registered so I could run at the same time with them for fairness.
I can definately beat the next three cars in front of me with the exact same 165hp motor I have right now. I gaurantee I could get this car into 58.5-59.0 range. I should have had a 61.5-62 on street tires had I walked the course. That means I can eat that '04 Cobra(best of 61.050) for lunch if I had race tires like he did. And even though I have this car built fairly radically, I still only have about just over half the money he spent on his car + mods. Race tires are a gauranteed 3 second drop.

Then add the 3.5L I am slowly building, a race alignment and racing tires, I gaurantee it would take down the top place '68 mustang roadracer. This car could be deadly out there, but its built for daily street use. and will stay that way at least for a few more years.

 

Current possible CA smog exemption is 2017!!!!!

 

It'll never happen, And I am not even holding my breathe for my '77 El Camino either. Calif is not about to give up any more possible revenue caring and feeding all these lowlife illegal aliens that come here and refuse to assimulate. Illegal aliens somehow are given the right to vote without reprocussions and vote for the guy that gives them free programs.

 

Yeah I know.
My 1974 got it, tho (smog exemption).