Well, my 1989 Pontiac Firebird, 2.8L with an automatic transmission, did a weird problem earlier this week. I was driving like at 30km/h, and the engine stalled when I was driving! I wasn't able to restart it, so I take it at my local GM dealer the next day, and they say it's the ignition module that is the cause. I say well then replace it. A while later, they call me, and that wasn't the problem! Now they tell me it's the timing chain or the cam. They are not sure. But it's most likely the timing chain the tech said. What the ****? They re-installed my old ignition module, now my car is juste like it was when it arrived, and they charge me 266$! They didn't put any new parts or anything. Ah that suck so much. They told me that if I do to timing chain, it will cost me 720$ + the 266$... Hey it's 1000$! I cold have re-built the whole engine somewhere else! So I'm gonna pay this 266$ and take back my car, maybe I will sell it for the parts 'cause I don't have any cash left. Here is what I did lately on the car: new battery, spark plugs, cap distributor/rotor, wipers, windshield, tires, air filter, EGR valve and some other stuff I can't remember.

 

720 bux to do a timing chain

I would put a new ICM in it youself, and give it a try.

 

Personally I would have disputed that charge and probably would have gotten away with it. I had a similar problem just a few weeks back with my chevy dealership.

I brought my car in to fix my idle and they have a diagnosis fee of $115 I said ok, just get it fixed, they call me the next day saying they don't have the proper equipment to diagnos my car and say I can pick it up.

They tried to charge me and I asked for what. We began to argue and I asked for his superior and then he says something like, alright i'll do you a favor and waive the charge, i was like ok, he gave me my ticket and had a guy go get my car.

Well i was waiting for 15 minutes and nothing, then a mechanic comes by asking me if I owned the white camaro, he said he couldn't get it to start....well long story short it wouldn't start from them fiddling with the wiring and my VATS had gone haywire, one of the wires looked like it got ripped.

They tried to make me pay for the tow until I straight up told them im getting a lawyer. They offered to fix it and I just told them to get my car out of their shop. Ended up bypassing it with a resistor. Long story short....i'll never take my car to a mechanic again...I always come out with more problems then I started with. But yea like I said, you could probably dispute those charges.

 

Yeah I will disput the charge today. But you guys de you really think this time it's probably the timing chain or the tech is all wrong again? By the way the $ is in canadian. Forgot to mention. but it seems still pricey

 

Well that still sucks. I cant charge people like that especially if it doesent fix the problem. If they have valid reason to beleive the ignition mod was dead by means of testing yea they can charge you for diagnosis. If that isnt it the diagnosis charge stays the same until they find out what the problem is Then they should shoot you parts and labor. Dealers and crooked mechanics can get away with alot especially since no consumer really has a leg to stand on with a law suit unless the mechanics work caused bodily injury, forgot to put a lug nuts on and the wheel fell off at 75MPH stuff like that. But yes if they want they can charge you for dianosis nothing you can do except bi-o-tch and see if they drop some of the charges.

What does the car sound like when you crank it over? Timing chain will make it pop through the intake if it slipped. IF it broke completely the valve train wont move but the crank will. Did they even test fuel pressure?????????????????????????????????

 

When I try to start the car, it doesn't act like a car that have a hard time starting. It just seems to turn in the empty. The sound is always the same. I'm sorry I'm not very good in english.

 

So it sounds the same as it did when it ran, it just doesent run now. Test fuel pressure. Squirt some carb cleaner down the throttle body and see if it fires up, just a little bit should do the trick. If the timing chain broke or slipped it would sound like crap, GHHHHHAAAAA HHHHHAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa.

Test for sprak pull a spark plug, lay it somewhere not near gasoline and crank the engine over, watch for a spark.

It does sound like either an ignition problem or fuel problem, I'm wandering toward fuel.

 

If you guys don't mind me adding my 2 cents I would like to elaborate on his problem. I had a similar problem about 3 mos. ago. I replaced my module but, I still had the same problem. I accidentally bumped the wires leading to the module and it died right there. I knew something was wrong with the wires at this point and took out my test light, inserted it into the harness and wiggled the wire. The light started flashing and so I went to Autozone and looked in their "HELP!" section and found a harness that would fit my module. I spliced the new harness in and haven't had a problem since.

The harness was only about $3 but, It took a while to find it and it didn't even say ignition module harness. It said something else but I don't remember. You may want to try that. It was the little 2 prong harness on my car.

(87 camaro with 2.8L)

 

if all the techs did was trest the modulator, there is no way the charge is over 60 bucks.

 

Okay, maybe it's juste a small thing doing the problem. But the tech did some diagnosis before he tought it was the ignition module... He said the fuel pump was okay and the coil too.

 

If he said that, then I assume he checked fuel pressure, and checked spark. So if the car still isn't starting....hmm....I don't get it! Did anything weird happen when the car died? Get any check engine lights before it died? And am I right in assuming that you can't get it started AT ALL? Or does it start and then die?

 

It doesn't start at all... Their is no fuel or spark. Maybe it's juste the wires that go to the module like the guy here said. If it's only that I will kill them all! I paid 200$ for nothing and if I find out it's only some wires and not the timing chain or chamshaft like he said, they are gone! By the way, yes I had a Service Engine Soon light for a couple of months now, but the techs said that the codes it was trowing has already been adressed so I should not worry. And I checked that with 2 techs other places. Ah well... I think I will really sell my car, it runned so great I can't understand a thing. I did a whole tune-up too.

 

For LESS then $200 you could've had the GM service manual from http://www.helminc.com . Then you could've run through the diagnostic charts and fixed it yourself!

I'm really not joking when I say every one of us should own one by now!! Hell it was one of my first purchases back in '94!

Oh and socialdeviant, not to be picky but there's no such thing as an ignition modulator. It's an ignition module. There was one guy around here that used to call it a modulator all the time, and it didn't make any sense at all- the box doesn't modulate anything!! Modulator might sound fancy but a real car guy will roll his eyes at you! Just trying to save future embarassment

 

You say there's NO fuel OR spark?? If I remember right, the distributor is turned by the cam, and given the signal to fire from the pickup coil. If the pickup coil is toast, that COULD explain a no spark condition I think. The fuel...I'm not sure what gives the injectors their signal to fire. If your timing chain is busted though, I would think that that might explain the problem since the crank would be moving but the cam wouldn't be. Now a timing chain isn't a bad problem really....the cam would be worse....but they're both not cheap if you have to have them done somewhere. Mechanics suck.

And in that photo, is that your car?? If it is..I'm digging it....love the yellow, lemon, "Hey! Look at me!" paint.

 

He checked the coil and it's ok. I have NO fuel and NO spark... So maybe it's really the timing chain. Here is what I did on the car lately: new battery, new EGR valve, new spark plugs, new air filter, new windshield, new tires, new front brakes, new cap distributor and rotor... If that can help you. I was driving at 30km/h when I heard a sound, I checked my RPM and it was at 0!

 

By the way, yes it's my 'bird on the pic ;-)

 

Before the car died...did you have a rough idle? Was your low end really sluggish, like the car didn't seem to want to really get going until around 2500-3000 rpms or so? Those are signs of a worn/stretching timing chain. It's a possibility that it could've snapped...but it must've had a LOT of wear to do that.

Now by no fuel, do you mean no fuel PRESSURE, or there's fuel pressure but none of the injectors are firing?

 

No fuel, no spark... does the service engine soon light come on the dash when you turn the key to on? Might be the fuel pump/ECM fuse at the upper frame rail on the passenger side, near the front of the car, by the headlights. It's held to the upper rail by a single 7mm screw.

Check that line for +12. If no voltage AND the fuse is good (verify the fuse with a meter or replace it anyway), you might have a problem with the fuse's connection at the positive junction block (passenger side of radiator support).

 

Nope, the idle was just fine. My car seems to be slow compared to when I got it 2 years ago. Sure I got a Trans Am GTA maybe that's why it seems slow now... And like I said, I have a Service Engine Soon light for something like 5-6 months if not more... It always come maybe 10 minutes after I'm driving the car. My car have 110 700 miles.

I think the injectors aren't firing. Sorry for my bad english. But the tech has to do some diagnosis before saying it was the ignition module in trouble. On the bill it says the coil is okay, fuel pressure okay, but no fire and spark.

 

When I had my Blazer diagnosed at hte dealer, it cost me $65 for the analyizer. Also rememberm, he's talking canadian $ so do the conversion, not meaning it still isn't a lot of $$$$ , no fuel or spark..........hmmmm,.........
time for assumetions, & you know what that means

1. The tech checked your battery & your alternator.
2. Pos + & Neg - Cables are good.
3. All fuses are good.
4. The PROM & ECM of the car are good.

 

When I had my water pump replaced at the Chevy dealer they told me if I would have wanted the timing chain replaced it would have only been like an extra $150 onto the $350 I paid for the water pump. I don't think I want to go back there again though they raised their labor rates from about $70/hr to $80.

 

Jesus...that's expensive to begin with, but man.... I don't pay over like $50-$60 for labor... Found a $40 place once.

 

Pay for labor?

'Give a man a fish... you feed him for a day... teach a man to fish (or in my case, learn to fish) and you feed him for life'

 

The problem lies not in knowing that to do...the problem is when the man who would be fishing is too clumsy to avoid hooking his own shirt, tugging, and tossing himself off the dock in a fit of flailing arms and beer flying everywhere.