V6 Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.

Drivetrain power rob

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 02:38 PM
  #1  
AGood2.8's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 1
From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
Drivetrain power rob

There was talk in another post about just how much power is robbed through the drivetrain- especially auto versus stick- someone said stick about 15%, and auto abut 20%-

Feast your eyes on how an auto can be made to eliminate that handicap (I had to pull the tranny because I was getting a small leak out of the front pump seal- Only 8 months new- sh*t happens)
Anyways, there sits my custom 9" convertor and my new ACPT carbon fiber driveshaft (4lbs- stock is over 12Lb rotation mass) This alone is equilant to going from 3.23 gears to 3.73's because the lighter rotation mass of the convertor and driveshaft spins the 3.23's as faster than any stock drivetrain with 3.42's or 3.73's for that matter- Plus I have top end speed. There is not a stick shift that can touch this 700r4 setup in a drag race.

Its not what you have- its what you do with it. And when you know what to do with it, you can put alot more flywheel/flexplate HP to the pavement

Eddit: Should also note that is a fully built Darrell Young 700r4 with a custom 30spline racing imput shaft also for compatability with the custom convertor. 13 vane pump (not 10), .521 servo(not .471) Blocked accumulator (I believe that raises pressure quicker to the servo-not certain) 9 clutch 3rd gear pack (not 7, stock is 6),Etc,... This thing is built- not just an over the counter performance upgraded trans- There is alot of custom internals. Just fikkin Jimmy didn't get the front pump seal in without creasing it (like I said- sometimes sh*t happens)
Attached Thumbnails Drivetrain power rob-acpt1.jpg  

Last edited by AGood2.8; Oct 2, 2003 at 09:15 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 02:43 PM
  #2  
AM91Camaro_RS's Avatar
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 1
From: Central FL
Car: 91 Camaro
Engine: 3.1...not hardly stock
Transmission: 700r4....not stock either
Axle/Gears: 3.73
that doesn't improve efficiency, that only improves acceleration. i wouldn't mind having that kind of setup though. what kind of 60' times can you pull with that?
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 02:43 PM
  #3  
Lee7's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Car: 88 BMW 535i
Engine: 3.5L M30
Transmission: 4HP22E
what RPM stall is that TQ?

im going to need a 3000-3400 stall convertor whenever i get my turbo setup done.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 02:53 PM
  #4  
AGood2.8's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 1
From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
Originally posted by AM91Camaro_RS
that doesn't improve efficiency, that only improves acceleration. i wouldn't mind having that kind of setup though. what kind of 60' times can you pull with that?
SOrry but that statement is wrong. A custom convertor can improve power transfer as well as acceleration Its all about pressures, vibrations, weights and gears that transfer flywheel HP (or lack of tranfer) to the rear wheels. Vibration and rotation mass are the two biggest robbers of flywheel HP.

As for drag racing and 60' times- I would be embarassed to try and dragrace this car. A V6 is not known for big horsepower and a Camaro is designed for handling (sportscar). I built this car for handling purposes and would be bored to hell running it at a drag strip- I did post months ago that I and a buddy chalkerd of 1320ft in a nearby industrial park (behind his shop) and I clicked of an UNofficial 15.8 then 15.9 back to back with a stopwatch just for curiousity. Last week I cleaned a '94 3.4l convertable Firebird's *** by 3 car lengths in my little 2.8.

Edit; Lee, stall is for roadracing, about 1800.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 02:59 PM
  #5  
Dale's Avatar
TGO Supporter
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,819
Likes: 3
From: AR
Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Agood, you list stock shaft as 12lbs, I assume thats the steel, and that C/F as 4lbs. Would you happen to know the weight of an aluminum one.

I didnt know a lighter rotating mass can = a lower gear.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 03:10 PM
  #6  
AGood2.8's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 1
From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
Dale, the Aluminum shafts are about 8 lbs. Rotation mass is everything when it comes to spinning rpms quickly- this is why racecars use lightened flywheel /clutch assembly to twist the r's faster but maintain top end speed. Gears such as installing 4.11's in the rear will spinn the r's quicker and put down more torque, but will also cut top speed. They also cause more time shifting in the 1/4 rather than pulling a taller gear faster.
I will make a promise that some day when I get around to finally getting this monster 3.4 installed (I keep stating I'm in no hurry- the motor in it noiw is fresh and strong), i will take it to a track and run the 1/4- I am looking for low 14's naturally asperated- maybe even 13's if I strip some weight.

Last edited by AGood2.8; Oct 1, 2003 at 03:14 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 03:29 PM
  #7  
Dale's Avatar
TGO Supporter
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,819
Likes: 3
From: AR
Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Thanks agood. So if I can find a aluminum one for 125 or less, I'm gonna go for it.

If I gotta pay the 200 or so that I see USED ones going for, I might as well pay the extra and get that C/F one.

I am guessing it was the tune of 350-400. Just let me know if it was +/- that, or if you got a buddy deal on it. No need for exact.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 03:36 PM
  #8  
AGood2.8's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 1
From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
He come the sh*t boxes comments, but, They run $795 I had a little extra money to burn this month- Want this car smooth at speed.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 06:54 PM
  #9  
Nixon1's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 0
From: Palm Bay, Florida, USA
Car: 95 E-150 & 07 Kawasaki ZX-6R
Engine: A slow one & a fast one
Transmission: A bad one & a good one
Axle/Gears: A weak one & a chained one
Whewee! Why'd ya put all that money down on that driveshaft, you could've got nitrous! Just kidding man.

That pretty much threw my desire to buy one out the window though....looks like I'm sticking to stock for now! As if I can afford it anyways.

I bet that car rides SMOOOOOTH now though. I'm sure it climbs up the revs a hell of a lot quicker too. Is the backlash/driveshaft kick cut down with that too, or is that done with the joints instead?
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 08:38 PM
  #10  
Dale's Avatar
TGO Supporter
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,819
Likes: 3
From: AR
Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Gulp

I didnt know they were that high. I think I shall stick to an aluminum one. But if your going for every bit of help, thats on the list, just gotta be a big baller.
Reply
Old Oct 1, 2003 | 09:42 PM
  #11  
Lee7's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Car: 88 BMW 535i
Engine: 3.5L M30
Transmission: 4HP22E
you could actually make a carbon fibre driveshaft. Its almost like fiberglass. All you need is the fibre (cheap) and the resin.

it would be a time consuming task, but in the end it should work, but it probably wouldnt be perfectly balanced like the ones you get from a company.
Reply
Old Oct 2, 2003 | 01:37 AM
  #12  
Gumby's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,113
Likes: 6
From: NWOhioToledoArea
Car: 86-FireBird
Engine: -MPFI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Only auto I would be afraid of is one with a switch pitch TC.

Matt
Reply
Old Oct 3, 2003 | 11:05 AM
  #13  
devianb's Avatar
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,029
Likes: 6
From: Illinois
Car: 1988 Trans Am
Engine: 305 TPI
Considering that the drive shaft is carbon fibre and our little v6s could do with gaining back bhp from powertrain loss, that carbon fibre drive shaft seems very reasonable to me.

I like any idea of stripping weight off the car, especially in the drive train areas.
Reply
Old Oct 3, 2003 | 04:05 PM
  #14  
AGood2.8's Avatar
Thread Starter
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 1
From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
Originally posted by devianb
Considering that the drive shaft is carbon fibre and our little v6s could do with gaining back bhp from powertrain loss, that carbon fibre drive shaft seems very reasonable to me.

I like any idea of stripping weight off the car, especially in the drive train areas.
Let me say, the motor just revs so smooth an freely now from about 4k to 5400 in gear. It use to have a struggling feel, now it runs like it craves the higher r's- Deffinately a nice result.
Reply
Old Oct 3, 2003 | 05:41 PM
  #15  
Dale's Avatar
TGO Supporter
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,819
Likes: 3
From: AR
Car: 1991 Camaro RS Vert
Engine: 350 S-TPI
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: GU5/G80/J65
Didnt waist any time installing it huh
Reply
Old Oct 3, 2003 | 11:47 PM
  #16  
Nixon1's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 0
From: Palm Bay, Florida, USA
Car: 95 E-150 & 07 Kawasaki ZX-6R
Engine: A slow one & a fast one
Transmission: A bad one & a good one
Axle/Gears: A weak one & a chained one
Maybe that's what I always noticed with my old 3.1. That 'struggling feel', I always attributed to poor head/intake design choking the motor....
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
colton_carlson
Firebirds for Sale
7
Mar 8, 2019 12:21 PM
sailtexas186548
Problems / Help / Suggestions / Comments
2
Aug 24, 2015 10:11 PM
Street Lethal
Interior
7
Aug 14, 2015 08:25 PM
Street Lethal
Engine/Drivetrain/Suspension Parts for Sale
3
Aug 13, 2015 08:28 PM
Street Lethal
Engine/Drivetrain/Suspension Parts for Sale
0
Aug 12, 2015 11:33 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 AM.